Its official! Dani to Stones!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 3 2008, 08:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have no problem rehashing this debate. I kicked all of your ..... last time who defended the decision and ran to Rossi/Dorna's side, and I can do it again.

Ah, I remeber those pathic attempts to create the huge conspiracy. Amusing

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 3 2008, 10:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah, I remeber those pathic attempts to create the huge conspiracy. Amusing
if we fall asleep halfway through the debate jumkie thinks he has won i think alaska froze some of his brain cell's ,go and sit in the sun jumkie and thaw out a bit

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 3 2008, 07:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think they are both "primo donnas". How quickly people forget the facts and sweep the dirty little deals under the rug. Danny's switch is obviously dastardly to do it mid season. But Rossi's switch was orchestrated by the governing body because of threats and strong arming (probably just like Peders presently); however, Rossi's threats precipitated threats by Dorna to propose a control tire (as we know now it was just a bluff) that coerced Bstone into supplying him ONLY. But here is the .... of it all, other riders wanting the Bstones were impeded and denied that request. Now I ask you (and keep in mind, I can't stand Pedrobot) would the championship look different had Dani got his Bstones at the beginning of the season? Well its speculation, but I think it would have. Confidence does a lot, and Dani is fast enough. So in essence (again, I hate the little ....), but in essence, he was denied the best chance to (at least in his mind) while Rossi got his placebo ONLY. Who the hell here is gonna argue that this is an even playing field? .... even when the field was in love with Michelin, it is well a an accepted fact (in the circle of reality) that Rossi got the best of them. Get over it, Rossi has the clout to make changes that other are denied, and that is what happened again but this time it was their second son Peders, period! Now go count your titles and ASTERISK in this .... for the record.

I have no problem rehashing this debate. I kicked all of your ..... last time who defended the decision and ran to Rossi/Dorna's side, and I can do it again.



Careful what you wish for compa.

Hey Jumkie are you actually in Alaska?

This whole disscussion is old I don´t want to rehash it but have to reply to some of your comments.


First, there is a difference between pressuring a company to get the results you want while you are in a bussiness contract and jumping ship before the contract was up. Rossi change is simply more valid then Dani´s at it´s face value. As for the one tire issue, this year it´s on very ones lips, all the teams all the riders all the commentators and all the magazines. So why is Rossi the bad guy just for figuring out the whole problem first. Needless to say the pressure he put on Michelin last year he also put on Yamanha recall that now, at EVERY race, the head of Yamaha racing is in the boxes. Rossi, like all riders, will do what he can to win. I don´t think that´s wrong. I have an issue with Dani switching mid season when he is clearly in no condition to callange the leaders, thus having a testing advantage over other riders who many make the switch in 2009. Dani won´t have to eat up race time finding the best set up, but other riders will (just like Rossi at the beginning of the year) this is unfair to say the least.

As for the whole Dani could be winning ideia I find it very hard to believe. Stoner is just as fast and much better at passing then Dani, and of course Rossi would be up there too. The thing is that Dani likes to pull away from the pack, not fight head to head, but even if he had the BS at the start of the season he would still have to fight, something his is not great at. This year he crashed out pushing his bike to the limit to keep his advantage so I don´t think he would be up top at all.

By the way, I never said that Rossi didn´t have clout. Of course he does! The man is on the rider safetly commity and he is a 5 time World Champ. If that isn´t enough to give you clout and get you noticed I don´t know what is. However, Yamanha is not Mommy honda and Fiat is in no way equal to Daddy Repsol.

Glad to know our feelings regarding Dani are mutual!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (citadina @ Sep 3 2008, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As for the one tire issue, this year it´s on very ones lips, all the teams all the riders all the commentators and all the magazines. So why is Rossi the bad guy just for figuring out the whole problem first.
Very good point. The form were full of tire flame wars last year and Jumkie was the one with the flame thrower. Now it's expected to say Michlin is .... as much as it is expected to say "I hate Dani"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>As for the whole Dani could be winning ideia I find it very hard to believe. Stoner is just as fast and much better at passing then Dani, and of course Rossi would be up there too. The thing is that Dani likes to pull away from the pack, not fight head to head, but even if he had the BS at the start of the season he would still have to fight, something his is not great at. This year he crashed out pushing his bike to the limit to keep his advantage so I don´t think he would be up top at all.
Jumkie conveniently forgot that Dani were denied Bridgestones by HRC, NOT Dorna. Add to that the "we don't have capacity" thing from BS were probably just that: BS. Theyjust felt comfortable with the way it was. Dening Rossi tires suited them so what ever it took to make them change their minds it was a good thing.

Just to Fk-up young Dani - and everyone else I heard Dorna's gonna go to a control tire next year... its just they can't decide whether its gonna be Dunlop or Pirelli!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (citadina @ Sep 3 2008, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As for the whole Dani could be winning ideia I find it very hard to believe.

Well if you speculate that the performance gap between the two tyre brands is the same this year as it was last, you will notice than Dani pedrosa is closer to the championship lead than Rossi was at this point in 07 with an equivalent disadvantage.

ok, we are now 75% of the way to having a defacto control tyre in moto gp and the only top contender left on michelins is Jorge. he must feel like hes been left out in the rain...

anyways, shouldnt we be happy now? more close racing and battles for the lead because the playing field is level?
who cares how pedro got his 'stones, hes got them and will have a race or 2 to get used to them. this should be a good thing right?

no, didnt think so. IMO the only thing that will change is that the gap between 2nd and 3rd will be much smaller on raceday and it will be the same procession unless the michelins of lorenzo and dovi work well. then we might see some actual racing at indy. otherwise, its the rossi v stoner show with dani in closer attendance again...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (citadina @ Sep 3 2008, 02:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hey Jumkie are you actually in Alaska?

This whole disscussion is old I don´t want to rehash it but have to reply to some of your comments.
Hi Cita,

I'm back. Thanks for asking.

Hey check this out.
LINK

Looks like I'm not the only one saying its a clout thing and who Dorna revolves around.

I pretty much agree with most of what you responded, except for a matter of degree. Oh, and you also made a great point about Dani having an advantage in testing, that is if all the teams are "allowed by Dorna" to switch to Bstones.

Anyway, I agree that its not really the riders fault. Hell they can ask Dorna to give them a lap head start for all I care. However, it reveal a negative bit of their competative character in my opinion, that is some of the more popular riders feel a sense of entitlement. Makes me wonder how they became so good in the first place...! I think this is what happened with Rossi & Dani's demands, so this is why it doesn't sit well with me. But again, like I said, they can request/demand anything they want, its up to the governing body to say yes or no. The .... about it is they clearly said yes, and not just yes, but they became pit bulls in their pursuit of having Rossi/Peders demands met. That is the part that sucks for me. But hey, that the "level" playing field all the competitors have to deal with--that is two levels, one for the primo donnas, and the second class citizen category.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 2 2008, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Because he has the 2nd most clout in MotoGP. And clout means you can do whatever you want.

Dorna=WWF

Yes. Jumkie, welcome to the MotoGP rebel squad.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 3 2008, 02:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah, I remeber those pathic attempts to create the huge conspiracy. Amusing

Yes it is quite amusing that many riders have stated that they are the recipients of DORNA subsidy monies and preferential team placement. Even more amusing is that you think all of the brokered deals stop when the riders get to motogp.

Amusing indeed

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 3 2008, 03:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jumkie conveniently forgot that Dani were denied Bridgestones by HRC, NOT Dorna. Add to that the "we don't have capacity" thing from BS were probably just that: BS. Theyjust felt comfortable with the way it was. Dening Rossi tires suited them so what ever it took to make them change their minds it was a good thing.

No, HRC didn't deny Dani Bridgestones, Fukui did. Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why in the hell the CEO of Honda Motor Corp. is setting strategy for Repsol/Honda. Sure, he used to be part of HRC in the 1980s, but why in the world did he take time out of his busy schedule to demand that HRC stick with a losing Michelin?

Because that's where Ezy had to go to get Hamane to relent. That's why. Why else would Fukui PUBLICLY override Hamane's decision?

Just another bunk HRC press release. File it with the others.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 4 2008, 05:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes it is quite amusing that many riders have stated that they are the recipients of DORNA subsidy monies and preferential team placement. Even more amusing is that you think all of the brokered deals stop when the riders get to motogp.

Amusing indeed

What ARE you smoking? Dorna subsidising is nothing new, nothing secret and definatly nothing wrong.
Neither are Dorna's support of single riders from small motorsport contries. Quite the oposite, it helps promoting the sport in the world and help good riders that otherwise never could reach that far becuase of leck of marked interest.

We were talking about Rossi and bridgestone, but you really don't need to add anything there. We allready know you are part of the conspiracy bunch.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 4 2008, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What ARE you smoking? Dorna subsidising is nothing new, nothing secret and definatly nothing wrong.
Neither are Dorna's support of single riders from small motorsport contries. Quite the oposite, it helps promoting the sport in the world and help good riders that otherwise never could reach that far becuase of leck of marked interest.

We were talking about Rossi and bridgestone, but you really don't need to add anything there. We allready know you are part of the conspiracy bunch.

Rossi is exactly who I was talking about. If you think the preferential treatment (that mars the competitive equity of the sport) stops once they get to MotoGP you are the one smoking something.

Both Pedrosa and Rossi are protected members of the sport. Rossi because he brings fans, Pedrosa because he is Spanish and he has Puig. You see no problem with the governing body rearranging the sport so they can win?

We have a fundamental problem here. If my conspiracy were true it wouldn't change your opinion of the sports proceedings so why bring it up? If you believe the sport should be have engineered results, why watch?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 3 2008, 03:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The form were full of tire flame wars last year and Jumkie was the one with the flame thrower. Now it's expected to say Michlin is .... as much as it is expected to say "I hate Dani"

Jumkie conveniently forgot that Dani were denied Bridgestones by HRC, NOT Dorna. Add to that the "we don't have capacity" thing from BS were probably just that: BS. Theyjust felt comfortable with the way it was. Dening Rossi tires suited them so what ever it took to make them change their minds it was a good thing.
This place never ceases to amaze and entertain. Hahaha, that is very funny coming from the self-professed forum "TIRE EXPERT". You babel, like no one else on this forum have made career of pointing to the tires when it fit your extremely narrow focus of defending your boy even if the problems had to be imagined. Again as you have attempted to do here babel. You'll say anything to deflect any resemblance of the current Peder-Dorna situation as the one you failed to defend when it was about Rossi-Dorna. Here is the thing, its crazy fans like you that make reasonable fans like me look like a detractor of Rossi. I'm not sure why, perhaps its the cult like following many of his fans exhibit, which is UNLIKE his reasonable fans of which many here are members) that make it so easy for me to debate but has lost much of its fun.

Even when the events of the infamous Bridgestone deal was being played out in front of the eyes of the world, with little to no veiling of the underdealings, threats, blatant favoritism, even then people like you rant to spin the reality to some fantastic imaginary idealism to protect your demagogue Rossi. Its really a shame and a disservice to Rossi the man, for whom I have gained a great respect, that he should have such out of touch fans like you babel.

Dorna denied any other rider, which includes Peder's to move to Bstones. Don’t go trying to rewrite history and push, as some here that Rossi was the sole wise man who saw the future. As a matter of fact, several other riders knew the riding on the wall as evidence by their request to switch to the Japanese tire manufacture. You championed the repeated blaming of tires for Rossi's second fiddle to Stone's devastating pace. Every post race thread I could count on babel to come out and point to imaginary shredding and tire failures to belittle Stoner and excuse his challenger. Even though there was plenty of evidence that simply pointed to Stoner being faster, yes, and its still fact, he remains faster (though he has failed to finish the last two). Now what you gonna say? They are on the same tires, and Stoner is still faster. That is a fact jack. But such is racing, the faster guy doesn't always win.

Now what, so we are suppose to believe that Dani's mid season switch has no resemblance to Rossi switch? Well of course it’s "different" but not by much, though at heart, it’s the same ..... It’s about Dorna (not HRC) playing favorites here. Dorna called the shots last time awarding only Rossi while denying Peders (and you try now to rewrite history saying it was HRC). Haha, you remind me of the same ........ as you and tom wanted, that is a demand to see the press release from Dorna admitting they play favorites. Well wake up genius, this is the real world. Underdealings, favoritism, clout, and $$$ dictate the decision process NOT what is to be fair and level which is the charter of a governing body.

Why do you take it so personal when your boy Rossi exhibits human qualities? You don’t have to defend him and make him into a god. We in touch with reality realize that he pouted and pushed and threatened to leave the series if he didn’t get his way, that is ok since he is a competitor and wants all the advantage possible, it was Dorna who ...... up by caving into this bluff. Despite crazy fans like yourself, the rest of us will still respect and appreciated the accomplishments of Rossi and his challengers who on rare occasion have bested him.

Oh yeah, .... Dani.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 3 2008, 06:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think they are both "primo donnas". How quickly people forget the facts and sweep the dirty little deals under the rug. Danny's switch is obviously dastardly to do it mid season. But Rossi's switch was orchestrated by the governing body because of threats and strong arming (probably just like Peders presently); however, Rossi's threats precipitated threats by Dorna to propose a control tire (as we know now it was just a bluff) that coerced Bstone into supplying him ONLY. But here is the .... of it all, other riders wanting the Bstones were impeded and denied that request. Now I ask you (and keep in mind, I can't stand Pedrobot) would the championship look different had Dani got his Bstones at the beginning of the season? Well its speculation, but I think it would have. Confidence does a lot, and Dani is fast enough. So in essence (again, I hate the little ....), but in essence, he was denied the best chance to (at least in his mind) while Rossi got his placebo ONLY. Who the hell here is gonna argue that this is an even playing field? .... even when the field was in love with Michelin, it is well a an accepted fact (in the circle of reality) that Rossi got the best of them. Get over it, Rossi has the clout to make changes that other are denied, and that is what happened again but this time it was their second son Peders, period! Now go count your titles and ASTERISK in this .... for the record.

I have no problem rehashing this debate. I kicked all of your ..... last time who defended the decision and ran to Rossi/Dorna's side, and I can do it again.



Careful what you wish for compa.
At least Rossi did it like a real Italian and strong armed the ........ ...... Pedrosa is just a puss.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Sep 5 2008, 12:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>At least Rossi did it like a real Italian and strong armed the ........ ...... Pedrosa is just a puss.

This is to me purely a demonstration of Puig and Pedrosa's influence at the top.
If it were HRC's influence, then why is Nicky riding on Michelins for the rest of the year?
Nicky is still a HRC rider. Why did he not even get a choice?

Thanks for the link Jumkie.
This quote says a lot.

"I think at the end of the day," Edwards said this morning, "that Grand Prix revolves first around Valentino and secondly riders like Pedrosa obviously, and Jorge. It has a big Spanish influence."

Does anyone here think any other rider on the grid could have pulled off a mid year switch to Bridgestones? Not a friggin chance in hell. Well perhaps one other.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Sep 5 2008, 02:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is to me purely a demonstration of Puig and Pedrosa's influence at the top.
If it were HRC's influence, then why is Nicky riding on Michelins for the rest of the year?
Nicky is still a HRC rider. Why did he not even get a choice?

Thanks for the link Jumkie.
This quote says a lot.

"I think at the end of the day," Edwards said this morning, "that Grand Prix revolves first around Valentino and secondly riders like Pedrosa obviously, and Jorge. It has a big Spanish influence."

Does anyone here think any other rider on the grid could have pulled off a mid year switch to Bridgestones? Not a friggin chance in hell. Well perhaps one other.

no i dont.
i think its wrong that anybody should treated differently in the sport by the officials but it could be argued that if anyone were to deserve such treatment that rossi is more deserving that dani. i mean what the .... has he done ?

4613:28389_fo...rse_anim.gif]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 4 2008, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Cita,

I'm back. Thanks for asking.

Hey check this out.
LINK
Makes me wonder how they became so good in the first place...!

Well then welcome back! Is there still any ice up there what with the global warming and chuncks breaking off Ellesmere in Canada!

That´s kinda harsh! The only way to become popular is to be REALLY good (or really short and spanish...as the case maybe) in the first place. Unless of course you believe the the Mulder theory that Vale was grown in a test tube by Dorna to be a multi world champ but something went wrong so they had to make rule ajustments garentee return on their investmente!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 4 2008, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don’t go trying to rewrite history and push, as some here that Rossi was the sole wise man who saw the future. As a matter of fact, several other riders knew the riding on the wall as evidence by their request to switch to the Japanese tire manufacture.

Hey play fair! I was talking about the whole single tire thingamjiggy!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Sep 5 2008, 12:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>At least Rossi did it like a real Italian and strong armed the ........ ...... Pedrosa is just a puss.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Sep 5 2008, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no i dont.
i think its wrong that anybody should treated differently in the sport by the officials but it could be argued that if anyone were to deserve such treatment that rossi is more deserving that dani. i mean what the .... has he done ?

Hummmm....be short, robotic and piss people off. Does that count?