Its official! Dani to Stones!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 3 2008, 06:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pedrosa and Rossi are both .... for switching. Dorna are .... for letting them. ....... Benedict Arnolds. (Don't expect too many Brits and Euros to get that.)


(You happy?)

Has Rossi or Pedrosa surrendered Michelin headquarters to Bridgestone? I am not sure how you can compare a traitor from the American war of independence with a professional rider. Rossi's contract had expired with Michelin - it's not like he had sworn allegiance to them for life! Are you of the opinion that once you enter MotoGP you can never change manufacturer of bike or tyres?

Rossi switching from Michelin to Bridgestone is a lot like Hayden switching from Honda to Ducati. He was previously successful with Honda; he hasn't been of late and so he wants to change in order to try and regain previous form.

In all likelihood Hayden will switch tyres too - so by your way of thinking this must make him a double ...!

Have you used the same brand of tyre on every motorbike you've ever owned? If not does this make you a ...?

(You happy?)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Sep 1 2008, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What I'd like to know is why Hayden didn't get a choice in changing too?



Autosport link

I also read somewhere ( trying to find a link ) that Puig went to other Michelin teams during Brno weekend and tried to get them to back a boycott of the race.

Won't really matter if he's riding in "09 on a non-Honda team.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 4 2008, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi is exactly who I was talking about.

Were you? Does he say he recive money from Dorna? That was new to me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>If you think the preferential treatment (that mars the competitive equity of the sport) stops once they get to MotoGP you are the one smoking something.
I had no idea we were talking about preferential treatment outside MotoGP at all. When did we start doing that? And what did we talk about?
But on a side note, if you think preferential treatment are a problem and must be removed find another sport as this has been the de facto standard for as long as there has been companies involved in motorsport. The best riders/drivers get the best equipment [period]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Both Pedrosa and Rossi are protected members of the sport. Rossi because he brings fans, Pedrosa because he is Spanish and he has Puig. You see no problem with the governing body rearranging the sport so they can win?
They are not protected at all. That's just your fantasy taking off again.
If by rearanging you mean helping them getting equipment others have access to I don't see the problem. I do see a problem to what extent and what force they use to they help the riders but that's really a thing for business ethitcs, and not the sport itself. It's in it self not an advantage to switch tire suplier and absolutly not unsporty so what ever it took to get the stones the switch it self was uproblematic and doesn't give anyone any unfair advantage. And as I said before, the best riders get the best equpiment, the lesser must wait. Business as ALLWAYS.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>We have a fundamental problem here. If my conspiracy were true it wouldn't change your opinion of the sports proceedings so why bring it up? If you believe the sport should be have engineered results, why watch?
You have a problem, not me. I suggest you watch chess or something.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 3 2008, 07:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Very good point. The form were full of tire flame wars last year and Jumkie was the one with the flame thrower. Now it's expected to say Michlin is .... as much as it is expected to say "I hate Dani"

Jumkie conveniently forgot that Dani were denied Bridgestones by HRC, NOT Dorna. Add to that the "we don't have capacity" thing from BS were probably just that: BS. Theyjust felt comfortable with the way it was. Dening Rossi tires suited them so what ever it took to make them change their minds it was a good thing.

Bridgestone was enjoying all the great publicity from Stoner's wins, and the way Michelin looked like ..... But if all the top riders are riding BS they are essentially competing against themselves. They no longer stand out in crowd. It's a very Japanese thing - the whole "humble BS beating the European giant" thing. Their bogus humility and feigned good sportsmanship made Michelin's ...-kicking that much more bitter to swallow - or at least, that's the Japanese mind-set.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Sep 5 2008, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Bridgestone was enjoying all the great publicity from Stoner's wins, and the way Michelin looked like ..... But if all the top riders are riding BS they are essentially competing against themselves. They no longer stand out in crowd. It's a very Japanese thing - the whole "humble BS beating the European giant" thing. Their bogus humility and feigned good sportsmanship made Michelin's ...-kicking that much more bitter to swallow - or at least, that's the Japanese mind-set.
+1
In addition the hope of winning another championship with the underdog as rider. Not at all as exciting to win with the big star.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Sep 4 2008, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is to me purely a demonstration of Puig and Pedrosa's influence at the top.
If it were HRC's influence, then why is Nicky riding on Michelins for the rest of the year?
Nicky is still a HRC rider. Why did he not even get a choice?

Thanks for the link Jumkie.
This quote says a lot.

"I think at the end of the day," Edwards said this morning, "that Grand Prix revolves first around Valentino and secondly riders like Pedrosa obviously, and Jorge. It has a big Spanish influence."

Does anyone here think any other rider on the grid could have pulled off a mid year switch to Bridgestones? Not a friggin chance in hell. Well perhaps one other.

It had to be more than influence alone that allowed Pedrosa to switch; money was doubtless involved too. Honda/Repsol clearly are treating Hayden like their waterboy since in their opinion he's not pulling his weight - hence they won't spend the extra bucks on his behalf - especially in light of the fact that it's been clear for months now that he's moving on at the end of the season.

i don't care what tires Thumbelina uses...he's still a ..... on the breaks

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Sep 5 2008, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But if all the top riders are riding BS they are essentially competing against themselves.
I agree and seems to me that this is the bigest issue with the single tire rule, if it happens. No matter which company hands them out, development will stop.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Sep 5 2008, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i don't care what tires Thumbelina uses...he's still a ..... on the breaks

+1

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (citadina @ Sep 5 2008, 08:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree and seems to me that this is the bigest issue with the single tire rule, if it happens. No matter which company hands them out, development will stop.

thats the most ........ thing i've ever heard.... i can't believe you actually think development would stop?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 4 2008, 07:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi is exactly who I was talking about. If you think the preferential treatment (that mars the competitive equity of the sport) stops once they get to MotoGP you are the one smoking something.

Equality is never going to happen in MotoGP as long as there is more than one tyre manufacturer and more than one bike manufacturer. The teams will always sign the best rider available to them that they think will do well on their bike - there are other considerations such as marketability and bike sales; but no top team will employ a rider that languishes at the back - hence Ducati getting rid of Melandri

Rossi is always going to carry more clout because he is the most successful rider in the MotoGP era and brings a large number of spectators to the sport that wouldn't normally watch motorcycle racing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 4 2008, 07:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Both Pedrosa and Rossi are protected members of the sport. Rossi because he brings fans, Pedrosa because he is Spanish and he has Puig. You see no problem with the governing body rearranging the sport so they can win?

Protected from what? Pedrosa has yet to win a championship and Rossi hasn't won since 2005. The only people that protect Pedrosa are HRC as he is their Golden boy.

How have Dorna rearranged it so they can win? Rossi wanted different tyres; do you think that he should have been denied them and had to stick it out with a company he wasn't contracted and that he didn't feel was competitive? Effectively making it a one tyre competition for one of the riders? So every other rider/team can choose their tyres; but he cannot?

Had this been the case for Rossi then it is highly likely that the season would have gone exactly the same as last year and Stoner would have it in the bag by now - hardly exciting racing. True Rossi has a significant advantage in the championship; however that is more to do with Stoner parking it than his bike being greatly superior to everyone elses Furthermore, Pedrosa will not win the championship this year - so Dorna haven't fixed it for him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 4 2008, 07:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We have a fundamental problem here. If my conspiracy were true it wouldn't change your opinion of the sports proceedings so why bring it up? If you believe the sport should be have engineered results, why watch?

I don't like Pedrosa; but I don't see why he should be denied the tyres he wants if all of the parties involved are in agreement. Every rider is out for the best package and every available advantage that they can get - it's this desire to be the best that speeds development and makes motorcycling interesting.

I get the feeling that had it been Hayden had been in Pedrosa's position (or Rossi's at the end of last season) then you wouldn't have a probem with the swapping of tyre manufacturers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlackKnight @ Sep 5 2008, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't like Pedrosa; but I don't see why he should be denied the tyres he wants if all of the parties involved are in agreement. Every rider is out for the best package and every available advantage that they can get - it's this desire to be the best that speeds development and makes motorcycling interesting.

I get the feeling that had it been Hayden had been in Pedrosa's position (or Rossi's at the end of last season) then you wouldn't have a probem with the swapping of tyre manufacturers.

The problem, as I see it, is not the fact that he switched tires, everyone has the right to do that, the problem is when and HOW he switched. Having Hondas test boy, Nakano, test the tires and then switching mid season when they still had a valid contract. As for the whole mutual agreement thing, if you shove enough money in front of anyones face they will 'agree' to most things. The robot will have an unfair advantage next year over any other rider that switches all because of the green of Poppy and Mommy.

People I have no problem with competitive inequalities that arise from free contract. They are important to the sport because the move things forward (or at least that's what they are designed to do).

As I have blatantly stated, in the simplest terms possible, I have a problem with the governing body or it's militant marketing company showing preferential treatment to certain riders.

The governing institution and the people it employs to manage the sport should remain neutral.

DORNA has not been neutral at any time during the last few seasons. Anyone who cannot see the cracks in the sport's foundation is truly lost. Furthermore, those of us who cannot see that DORNA likely played a role in Rossi's switch to Yamaha or Bridgestone, they have turned a blind eye.

As Jumkie has said, recent events have revealed the sport for what it has become--WWF on 2 wheels.

These press releases make my allegations of conspiracy more and more likely. Unfortunately, recent press releases have done little to strengthen the circumstantial evidence surrounding a tire conspiracy, but hopefully that will happen if/when Michelin departs the sport.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 5 2008, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>People I have no problem with competitive inequalities that arise from free contract. They are important to the sport because the move things forward (or at least that's what they are designed to do).

As I have blatantly stated, in the simplest terms possible, I have a problem with the governing body or it's militant marketing company showing preferential treatment to certain riders.

The governing institution and the people it employs to manage the sport should remain neutral.

DORNA has not been neutral at any time during the last few seasons. Anyone who cannot see the cracks in the sport's foundation is truly lost. Furthermore, those of us who cannot see that DORNA likely played a role in Rossi's switch to Yamaha or Bridgestone, they have turned a blind eye.

As Jumkie has said, recent events have revealed the sport for what it has become--WWF on 2 wheels.

Dorna played a role in Rossi's switch to Yamaha? How did they do that; Threaten Rossi that he wouldn't get any other ride but the crappy yamaha because he was too fast on the Honda

Wake up Lex. Dorna are the comercial rights holder, they are NOT the governing body. As such their resposibilty is to make money. They make money by increasing and broadning the interest of the sport. With that as their responsibilty they do now, as allways help certain riders. Most often it's riders from new countries without the sposor interest and the money needed. When they see suppliers playing games that are against the sports interest I find it likely (allthough not proven) that they tried to interfere, and if you ask me, rightfully so. That your beloved Hayden didn't get the tires are still HRC's responsibility but you may view it as a limit of Dornas power allthough I fail to see the benefit it would give the sport.

Dorna has done many stupid things, promoting the new rules in '07 among the foremost, but if they did help Pedrosa and Rossi to get they equipment they wantet that surly was among the better ones.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 5 2008, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wake up Lex. Dorna are the comercial rights holder, they are NOT the governing body. As such their resposibilty is to make money.

I'm assuming you know <span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%DORNA casts the tiebreaking vote at technical committee? DORNA and the IRTA have been long allied (if you believe Noyes who used to work for DORNA).

Any change DORNA wants, DORNA gets. 2-2 then Ezy drops the tiebreaking bomb.

The FIM can overrule everything, but since they sold the rights to DORNA, DORNA have de facto and de jure power (de jure power outside the sport in the legal realm).

I'm also assuming that you know the EU decided that CVC, the right holder to MotoGP (thru Dorna) and F1 (thru Ezy's company), was a trust and had to be broken up.

Bridgepoint bought CVC's interest in July 2006 when MotoGP was experiencing growth and record crowds. They paid a pretty penny for the rights, and since their purchase, MotoGP has been in steep decline. Ezy is under enormous pressure to rejuvenate the sport.

The situation we have now is the exact same situation we had at the end of 2003. One manufacturer is leaps and bounds above the rest, and the governing body has finally lowered the boom on Ducati to hand out championship equipment to more riders (the same thing they did to Honda at the beginning of 2003). Instead of swapping the key championship winning riders around they are introducing a control tire.

A control tire that has already been introduced. It is the Rossi/Stoner Bridgestone spec. Kawasaki are the only B-stone squad that doesn't run it. Is it surprising they had amazing results at Brno? Obviously, the 2007 spec tire that propelled Ducati past everyone else, has been eliminated.

Like I said, it only took one race for Ezy to decide Stoner wasn't going to get that tire for this season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 5 2008, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm assuming you know <span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%DORNA casts the tiebreaking vote at technical committee? DORNA and the IRTA have been long allied (if you believe Noyes who used to work for DORNA).

Any change DORNA wants, DORNA gets. 2-2 then Ezy drops the tiebreaking bomb. So the chairman of the board IS the board. I bet that braking news will surprice the business world. A hole new and revolutionary dicovoery by Lex.
Dorna has the tiebraking vote that doesn't give them all power, but more important, not to mention more relevant is: how would they use their tiebraking vote against Bridgestone? Create the new rule: Rossi have the right to be supplied by Bridgestone?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>The FIM can overrule everything, but since they sold the rights to DORNA, DORNA have de facto and de jure power (de jure power outside the sport in the legal realm). I didn't know FIM sold their power as well. Could you explain? Usually this is considered a good thing as it removes FIM from the comercial side and they can look at what is best for the sport in case comercial interests might hurt the sport. But Lex again has a new revolutionary theory.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I'm also assuming that you know the EU decided that CVC, the right holder to MotoGP (thru Dorna) and F1 (thru Ezy's company), was a trust and had to be broken up.
would you please stop mixing issues? Jeeez, that got to do with motorsport domination, not about MotoGP. It might hurt the sport allthough more likely the fans, but in totally different ways than the micro event that a rider switch suplier.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Bridgepoint bought CVC's interest in July 2006 when MotoGP was experiencing growth and record crowds. They paid a pretty penny for the rights, and since their purchase, MotoGP has been in steep decline. Ezy is under enormous pressure to rejuvenate the sport.

The situation we have now is the exact same situation we had at the end of 2003. One manufacturer is leaps and bounds above the rest, and the governing body has finally lowered the boom on Ducati to hand out championship equipment to more riders (the same thing they did to Honda at the beginning of 2003). Instead of swapping the key championship winning riders around they are introducing a control tire.
So what you say is in fact that they FORCED their "protected" rider to the team of their liking. Wonder why they didn't put him on KR's team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>A control tire that has already been introduced. It is the Rossi/Stoner Bridgestone spec. Kawasaki are the only B-stone squad that doesn't run it. Is it surprising they had amazing results at Brno? Obviously, the 2007 spec tire that propelled Ducati past everyone else, has been eliminated.
Kawa are using the old spec tire that everyone has left, the mysterious 2007 tire that is. If Kawa have such a great front tire why don't excell in all races Lex. They've used it all along not only at Brno?
I guess that lousy tire Stoner and Rossi are using has proved it's inefficiency as well. The two have been so slow compared to rest lately that they obviously are feeded .... tyres by Ezy personally
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Like I said, it only took one race for Ezy to decide Stoner wasn't going to get that tire for this season.
I guess he used his tiebraking vote for that as well

You brag about being good but this is as bad as it gets Lex. Your "chain of evidence" are as strong as Gibernaus psykie

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 5 2008, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So the chairman of the board IS the board. I bet that braking news will surprice the business world. A hole new and revolutionary dicovoery by Lex.
Dorna has the tiebraking vote that doesn't give them all power, but more important, not to mention more relevant is: how would they use their tiebraking vote against Bridgestone? Create the new rule: Rossi have the right to be supplied by Bridgestone?

Why are you laughing at fact, and why don't you know them? DORNA don't have an operating agreement with the tire manufacturers. Ezy said earlier this year that he can do as he pleases to remedy the tire situation. The only thing worth debating is whether or not he could keep a lid on control tire testing during the season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I didn't know FIM sold their power as well. Could you explain? Usually this is considered a good thing as it removes FIM from the comercial side and they can look at what is best for the sport in case comercial interests might hurt the sport. But Lex again has a new revolutionary theory.

I'd be happy to explain it to you. DORNA can take MotoGP (the sport they own the rights to and a controlling interest in) and split. They could make their own series with their own rules and the FIM could do nothing about it. The same way the manufacturers could split and make their own series whenever they want.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>So what you say is in fact that they FORCED their "protected" rider to the team of their liking.

Why would they have to force him. Yamaha certainly would have wanted Rossi and Burgess. Dorna handed Yamaha a check that made sure they wouldn't get outbid. Duh!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Kawa are using the old spec tire that everyone has left, the mysterious 2007 tire that is. If Kawa have such a great front tire why don't excell in all races Lex. They've used it all along not only at Brno? I guess that lousy tire Stoner and Rossi are using has proved it's inefficiency as well. The two have been so slow compared to rest lately that they obviously are feeded .... tyres by Ezy personally

I was trying to point out that the old tire is still the best at some venues. Kawasaki have had a few uncharacteristic results this season. Why was Stoner yanked off of the 2007 when it is quite clear they have many usable applications. The old tire is Stoner's choice tire.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>You brag about being good but this is as bad as it gets Lex. Your "chain of evidence" are as strong as Gibernaus psykie

For the 1,000,001st time, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the sport's direction probably changed significantly after 3 months of emergency technical meetings.

Babel is wrong.

There, settled.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlackKnight @ Sep 5 2008, 03:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am not sure how you can compare a traitor from the American war of independence with a professional rider.
Do you understand this word: SARCASM?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 6 2008, 08:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why are you laughing at fact, and why don't you know them? DORNA don't have an operating agreement with the tire manufacturers. Ezy said earlier this year that he can do as he pleases to remedy the tire situation. The only thing worth debating is whether or not he could keep a lid on control tire testing during the season.



I'd be happy to explain it to you. DORNA can take MotoGP (the sport they own the rights to and a controlling interest in) and split. They could make their own series with their own rules and the FIM could do nothing about it. The same way the manufacturers could split and make their own series whenever they want.



Why would they have to force him. Yamaha certainly would have wanted Rossi and Burgess. Dorna handed Yamaha a check that made sure they wouldn't get outbid. Duh!



I was trying to point out that the old tire is still the best at some venues. Kawasaki have had a few uncharacteristic results this season. Why was Stoner yanked off of the 2007 when it is quite clear they have many usable applications. The old tire is Stoner's choice tire.



For the 1,000,001st time, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the sport's direction probably changed significantly after 3 months of emergency technical meetings.


..........…….and the people have a dig at Stoner for supposedly choking when he can't get the tire he wants, isn't that the same reason he crashed using Michelins i.e. he always had to settle for a second choice front tire, but try telling this to the Rosie groupies. They won’t even examine the possibility

His interview just before the start of the last race revealed he was not fully confident with the tires presumably, as he has been using Bridgestone long enough, his tire of choice was unavailable? You have to wonder why?