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Is the electronic era illegitimate

Talpa said:
Welcome back Rog, missed you mate!



Completely agree, and lets get onto Tyres, hardly evolving prototypes here.........hardly evoke innovative designs.........hardly evoke innovative race strategy.......mainly evoke talented high priced programmers and telemetry.



As long as Casey is winning its ok though
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Tyres in motogp have gone backwards from the day we had several brands competing imo. Competition forces progress imo and i was always against a control tyre. Bridgstone were more than capable of also providing over night specials if they wanted to but it was not how they wanted to compete. They wanted to work on all purpose competitive tyres unlike michilin. I dont blame Dorna for this though, Michilin have big problems within the company and nearly went bust. This forced Dornas hand as Dunlop couldn't produce the amount of tyres and Pirelli were in WSB.
 
corinthian said:
Except more fuel. Or a cylinder bore of greater than 81mm. Or non-Bridgestone tyres. Or red bikes that are fast. Or GPS input for TC. And so on.



The aids we've got are not necessarily the aids we want, and many would argue they're not the ones we need. The same is true of the prohibitions.



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jVoroHx3IU[/media]
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Yeah but you got to abide by the rules set out by Dorna!

.... I know.
 
Start a poll. Should MotoGP strictly regulate the electronics? Yes or No.



Electronics should be mainly unregulated in MotoGP. The manufacturers need a place to develop electronics, and more importantly, they need to develop systems and methodologies for producing reliable electronics (production relevancy). The riders could turn off the electronics, but the fuel restriction makes it impossible. Even with the fuel restriction, electronics should still be unlimited. As Nakamoto-san said, they will spend just as much money reverse engineering their own systems to work on a spec ECU.



The racing is already much closer this year than it was last year b/c the rev ceiling is lower (easier reliability) and Bridgestone have changed the rear tire so that it heats more easily. As a result it degrades slightly.



MotoGP needs to be fairly complicated b/c the manufacturers need a fairly complicated competition. Buying titles with cubic dollars is unacceptable, but the GPC appears to be changing. If tail-happy slide festivals are necessary, WSBK is the place. BSB have created a great rules package. If they put the gas tanks back on top of the frame, and shorten the WSBK races slightly to negate tire life advantages, all will be well in the world.
 
Jumkie said:
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Very true Wilsks. If we are going to judge the riders based on their skill set, it seems to me letting them decide how much throttle is needed would be a direct way of knowing if that rider is proficient and talented in the essential skills of motorcycle racing.



Go Barbera.
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I understand your post but wtf is this? Are you a tow truck driver by trade?
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Jumkie said:
Do you see the word "is" in the thread title? Its a small word, but it usually means there is a question involved.
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No no Jumkie. Mental Inadequency is correct. I am a fool. I forgot to punctuate with a question mark.



My point of this thread is not to debate whether electronics should stay or go. Thats been discussed many times. Its more about the legitimacy of the era.

We cant really compare Stoner to Doohan (or whoever). Doohan dominated on bikes that he was in full control of.



Take Schwantz for example. He could be in the GOAT discussion but he was being tossed off the bike and injured so much that maybe he could have won more.Maybe he or other like him could have extended their careers from not being injured so much.
 
JohnnyKnockdown said:
No no Jumkie. Mental Inadequency is correct. I am a fool. I forgot to punctuate with a question mark.



My point of this thread is not to debate whether electronics should stay or go. Thats been discussed many times. Its more about the legitimacy of the era.

We cant really compare Stoner to Doohan (or whoever). Doohan dominated on bikes that he was in full control of.



Take Schwantz for example. He could be in the GOAT discussion but he was being tossed off the bike and injured so much that maybe he could have won more.Maybe he or other like him could have extended their careers from not being injured so much.
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They had fuel injection in Doohan's era, and according to KRJR, TC was already creeping in to the two-stroke formula. Plus, Doohan had the benefit of the expansion chamber, and that made "the pipe" so much easier to use compared to the early two-smokes. I don't think Doohan's era was legitimate. Gardner could have been better for all we know.
 
To be honest, I don't have a problem with a crude form of traction control, if its only traction control, similar level to what you get on a street bike, but it needs to be limited
 
No track position aware engine mapping.



No ride by wire throttle, which gets rid of many other things.
 
Jumkie said:
Do you see the word "is" in the thread title? Its a small word, but it usually means there is a question involved.
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Wasn't referring to thread title but was referring to the first line in the post where OP thinks that his opinion is the same as EVERYONE except Povol. After that it was just a waste of space.



If the electronic era is illegitimate then Rossi has no legitimate premier class titles because EVERY premier class bike he has ridden and won on has had electronic aids. So essentially the topic is complete ........ because Rossi being illegitimate is .........



Not you jum but a lot of you people need to pull your heads out of the sand because it is 2012 and the whole ....... world is electronic/digital so get over it or piss off.
 
michaelm said:
No track position aware engine mapping.



No ride by wire throttle, which gets rid of many other things.
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completely agree, and Nickys issues last week now highlighted that Track position mapping is most likely constantly being updated during the race, some type of program/engineer altering things from the pits during the race is not what I want to see in Motorcycle racing. A simple way to stop this would be to place a Satelite/RF signal ban or fill the Venues air full of massive blackspots on a race weekend.....that would soon slow this down.....
 
A thought that occurs to me though, is that would this discussion even exist if Rossi was still on a Yamaha & still winning enough to keep his fans happy?



On another note, I for one am fairly happy that all the rider aids have been developed in MotoGP & later in WSBK... Especially as we are seeing these items popping up more often on road bikes now ( which is what we all ride isn't it? )



My last name isn't Rossi, Stoner or anyone wlse of motorcycling note, so I don't have their skills but I still love to ride bikes & anything that gets me home in one piece after any particular brisk & anti-social scratch up thru the hills has got to be a good thing one would think...?



Bottom line I guess is that with little or no race development, then there is little or no road development... And that boys & girls is what would really suck...



Look at the Panigale or S1000RR & tell me that they weren't worth the effort in electronic development... Or am I totally missing the point here?



Cheers,

M
 
JohnnyKnockdown said:
No no Jumkie. Mental Inadequency is correct. I am a fool. I forgot to punctuate with a question mark.



My point of this thread is not to debate whether electronics should stay or go. Thats been discussed many times. Its more about the legitimacy of the era.

We cant really compare Stoner to Doohan (or whoever). Doohan dominated on bikes that he was in full control of.



Take Schwantz for example. He could be in the GOAT discussion but he was being tossed off the bike and injured so much that maybe he could have won more.Maybe he or other like him could have extended their careers from not being injured so much.
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I'll tell you one thing electronics has ruined the legitimacy of: music. Thanks to your techno rap hip hop electro crap. Gimme Men at Work Be Good JOHNNY. Now piss off and let me get back to my trusty traditional valve guitar amp, made in the days when music was legitimate. Crap, just looked inside and half the bloody thing is actually digital.
 
The 'electronic era is no more illegitimate than any other era of racing where some riders received benefit from a supplier or product that allowed them to 'perhaps' perform better than they would have without that product.



Are the titles of Doohan, Rainey, Schwantz diminished because of the availability to those riders of tyres manufactured specifically to their needs and demands where the same opportunity was not afforded to Michael Rudroff, Christian Sarron etc?



Are the titles of Agostini diminished because of the MV?



No, the electronics have been present for a lengthy period of time, not just the 800cc era either and in all likelyhood it is these advances at MGP level that have flowed through to the street motorcycles of today and that have provided benefit to those same motorcycles. Nobody for example seems to complain about the electronic interference that is within the WSBK field and yet in that class you can clearly hear the constant inetrruption of TC to the bikes.



Simple for me, no era is illegitimate nor is any era more legitimate than another as each era is run to a set of rules and as such, all competition is or should be playing by the same rules, or as they say, 'it is the same for everyone'
 
birdman said:
I'll tell you one thing electronics has ruined the legitimacy of: music. Thanks to your techno rap hip hop electro crap. Gimme Men at Work Be Good JOHNNY. Now piss off and let me get back to my trusty traditional valve guitar amp, made in the days when music was legitimate. Crap, just looked inside and half the bloody thing is actually digital.
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Line 6 is short for Line 666. They're the antichrist.



...comes in handy in recording though.



.....still, I love my 12AX7's and EL84's.
 
Talpa said:
Welcome back Rog, missed you mate!



Completely agree, and lets get onto Tyres, hardly evolving prototypes here.........hardly evoke innovative designs.........hardly evoke innovative race strategy.......mainly evoke talented high priced programmers and telemetry.



As long as Casey is winning its ok though
<
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Hey look every one Dip .... Talpas mate Cockhead Chopperman is back, dont worry though they wont be here long on Stonerslide.net as they usually .... off about July or August and go on Stoner watch... opps sorry Suicide Watch...



By the way Rog welcome back and how is your mate Rossi doing on that Ducati? Now remember Stoner won 23 races on that Unrideable bike.....
 
Thats what is such a godsend with Stoner, he is old school and uses very little electronics intervention.



Sure Rossi can't ride without electronics aids, and never has, but he will likely disappear soon.
 
muzzy57 said:
Look at the Panigale or S1000RR & tell me that they weren't worth the effort in electronic development... Or am I totally missing the point here?



Cheers,

M
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thats what i've been arguing for a long time, the most advanced road bike in the field of electronics until recently (bmw s1000rr) had all these gizmos +abs (which is far more important on the road than any launch control or engine braking management) without any input from motogp



honda on the other hand offer only one electronic aid , and it is one that was never allowed to be used in racing (abs)
 

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