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Indy Race Thread SPOILERS!

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- I'd say they were doing an admirable job.

Well bro, that was my opinion, but after seeing the priblems with peeps having difficulty getting heat into tires, its started to get me thinking a bit.



2 compounds, not 3. One decent one unusuable, so in reality, one compound. I'd say Perelli is doing better job in Wsbk as a single tire supplier.
 
Spotted at Indy



http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2011/motogp/polis/rossitat/



Bopper, fanatic, freakshow ? You make the call.



Personally, i cant imagine worshipping anything or anybody to these extremes



What about Jesus u Communist heathen.
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Jum, how often is Laguna used? Every weekend including track days, testing and local racing? How many events were run between resurfacing and MotoGP?



Probably a few more than Indy. I know KS has a school at Indy. But probably not much. Perhaps Dorna/Bstone dropped ball on having proper test of new conditions would be my guess.
 
Well bro, that was my opinion, but after seeing the priblems with peeps having difficulty getting heat into tires, its started to get me thinking a bit.



2 compounds, not 3. One decent one unusuable, so in reality, one compound. I'd say Perelli is doing better job in Wsbk as a single tire supplier.



That I think you would agree - is an apples and oranges comparison as Superbikes are I suspect more similar from one brand to another and the tires made for them don't require as aggressive (a bad word but you know what I mean) a design. And the Superbikes chassis don't change much during the season or from year to year. Fewer variables make (I suspect) for a more narrow margin of error.
 
Perhaps Dorna/Bstone dropped ball on having proper test of new conditions would be my guess.



Exactly, and if we had a tire war, it is guaranteed that Bridgestone would have tested the surface as they have done it in the past. It is fairly laughable to suggest that they couldn't make a compound work on that surface, .... its got to be better than most roads!! Placing all of the blame on Indy is plain ridiculous, I'm sure they didn't put razors in the hotmix!......the fact of the matter is that six teams were detrimentally affected by this .... up. How much money did it cost for a non-result due to no fault of the teams? And I'm not suggesting that there is a conspiracy from the Bridgestone point of view, Honda has it sorted this year better than anyone else to work with this rubber in all conditions, and if it wasn't for Dani's injury they would be one-two. Kudos to them.......However, with the restrictions the way they are the cost involved in developing a machine around a tire to compete must be becoming fairly intolerable. Bridgestone are not offering any solutions to aid the others machinery? Why not? Simple...they are not in competition. It's what Bridgestone is not doing that is the problem........rubber is arguably the most important and vital part of the motorcycle....what is happening just happens to be playing into the hands of the manufacture who spends the most.....



In saying that though-there is still a serious issue with the Control rubber supply this year, Sic highlighted it moreso than anyone on the weekend, granted that he wouldn't have beaten Stoner or Dani, but certainly would have been on for a podium. Saying that Sic's style/set-up caused this rubber, which is most famous for its durability (some even suggesting it could last 5-10 laps more at most rounds), caused it to completely fail, whilst two other riders managed to stay on a near lap-record pace and the other not far off for the whole race......all on the same bike....is a little difficult to believe? I cite once again Jorge, Colin and Cal's serious complaints about tire supply earlier on in the season-at more than a few circuits. Jorge in particular saying that the rubber is worse than last season........How is it that the reigning world champion and his incredible team who have been masters at set-up on this rubber for the last 2 seasons, all of sudden are at some rounds completely struggling for set-up, and in this case desperately having to try Spies and Tech3 settings all to no avail?? WTF? Rossi and Hayden are both citing their almost insurmountable hurdles to be mainly due to the rubber, even Stoner has had fairly large and sometime spectacular (Germany high-side, Mugello) issues.



Adding to this at Indy the marbles off the line.....of which I have not seen such an amount-ever. This is a clear indication that some of the rubber is aged and has abnormally reacted to the new surface-meaning that Bridgestone made no effort to supply rubber to suit, and should be held to account for the loss of money for some teams....really, if you knew you weren't going to even finish the race because of tire failure, you wouldn't fly over and waste your engines.....



We know It does not flex in temperature variation, as we have seen at many of the colder rounds this year it can be deadly, and when the track temp is higher some of the bikes do not work at all either. How is it that 'control' rubber has such a small window of competitive operation? Climatic history of the Indy circuit will certainly state that Indy would have had fairly extreme temperatures at either end of the scale last weekend (as it did-very hot with a Hurricane threatening!), adding to this a brand new untested surface, yet still no effort was made to bring another compound. So we all witnessed the farce that was last weekend......too many very large issues here to be ignored and blamed on the tarmac.......
 
Can't compare a race track with most roads, unless you drive to work at 300+ kph then slam on your carbon brakes 30m before the traffic lights. Cant compare motogp tyres with moto2 or SBK or nascar for the same reason. Can compare to razors in hotmix, that was quite good.

At 300+ kph slam on a carbon brake and mash a front tyre with a tiny footprint into the road with this in it:
spey_chip_104.jpg




See all those nice sharp edges and points. They stick up out of the road you know. Whats going to happen? Rock is harder than rubber.

Buff those nasty sharp edges nice and smooth first with a nascar or go-cart or rally car or whatever. Its called bedding in the track. Dont make bridgestone buff them up during a motogp race, it causes a lot of marbles and unhappy riders, some of whom refuse to keep racing. It aint rocket science, it aint even rock science. Its common sense.



I do agree Stoner, who won the bloody race after all, had no need to whine on about it. If this is the point people want acknowledged (Jumkie), no problem. If people want to crucify Bridgestone, then boycott Montegi haha.



Its Bridgestone's fault:

When would Bridgestone test the surface as they have done in the past?

Before the race - no good, the surface was slippery and 3 sec off the previous year.

Somewhere in the middle? No good. You want overnight specials?

After the race - no good, thats a bit too late.

Use last years data? No good, new surface.

We know the suggested problems, who has posted the solution for Bridgestone? Should the tyres have been rock hard or super soft or what? Nope, the track should be bed in.
 
Can't compare a race track with most roads, unless you drive to work at 300+ kph then slam on your carbon brakes 30m before the traffic lights. Cant compare motogp tyres with moto2 or SBK or nascar for the same reason. Can compare to razors in hotmix, that was quite good.

At 300+ kph slam on a carbon brake and mash a front tyre with a tiny footprint into the road with this in it:
spey_chip_104.jpg




See all those nice sharp edges and points. They stick up out of the road you know. Whats going to happen? Rock is harder than rubber.

Buff those nasty sharp edges nice and smooth first with a nascar or go-cart or rally car or whatever. Its called bedding in the track. Dont make bridgestone buff them up during a motogp race, it causes a lot of marbles and unhappy riders, some of whom refuse to keep racing. It aint rocket science, it aint even rock science. Its common sense.



I do agree Stoner, who won the bloody race after all, had no need to whine on about it. If this is the point people want acknowledged (Jumkie), no problem. If people want to crucify Bridgestone, then boycott Montegi haha.



Its Bridgestone's fault:

When would Bridgestone test the surface as they have done in the past?

Before the race - no good, the surface was slippery and 3 sec off the previous year.

Somewhere in the middle? No good. You want overnight specials?

After the race - no good, thats a bit too late.

Use last years data? No good, new surface.

We know the suggested problems, who has posted the solution for Bridgestone? Should the tyres have been rock hard or super soft or what? Nope, the track should be bed in.



It is common knowledge if you've been watching for a few years, that Bridgestone and sometimes Michelin would go to Circuits after they had been re-surfaced weeks before the event and test the surface. Some of the most famous occasions were 2007, when Michelin failed to do this at Laguna and other circuits the results were spectacularly bad. These test worked well for them in 2007.....there is no reason to suggest they wouldn't again.

I think Bridgestone should know a fair bit about those rocks you like to allude to, and how they can ruin a tyre, so 'common sense' as you put it, should have prevailed and compound variants should have been supplied, wouldn't you think? They sure as .... would have been if another Tyre manufacture was involved, so yes it is Bridgestones fault, they could have developed compounds for this new surface easily.........unless the Indy people have found some new devil-sharp rock unknown to mankind's leading tyre makers and deliberately put it into the Hotmix to piss off Motogp organizers, teams, riders, fans.......
 
It is common knowledge if you've been watching for a few years, that Bridgestone and sometimes Michelin would go to Circuits after they had been re-surfaced weeks before the event and test the surface. Some of the most famous occasions were 2007, when Michelin failed to do this at Laguna and other circuits the results were spectacularly bad. These test worked well for them in 2007.....there is no reason to suggest they wouldn't again.

I think Bridgestone should know a fair bit about those rocks you like to allude to, and how they can ruin a tyre, so 'common sense' as you put it, should have prevailed and compound variants should have been supplied, wouldn't you think? They sure as .... would have been if another Tyre manufacture was involved, so yes it is Bridgestones fault, they could have developed compounds for this new surface easily.........unless the Indy people have found some new devil-sharp rock unknown to mankind's leading tyre makers and deliberately put it into the Hotmix to piss off Motogp organizers, teams, riders, fans.......

Test the surface with what? A microscope? A Polished Aggregate Friction Value tester? (yes there is such a thing http://www.mastrad.com/psvdoc.htm) Maybe they should have attached some of those devil-sharp rock things to a stick and thrown them at the tyres to see what would happen? It might have been useful to let Stoner do the throwing of the rock-spear to help take out his frustrations and stop whinging ha ha.

How about this. They could have tested the surface (even weeks in advance) with the intended BS tyres before the race!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow what a great idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As a by product it would have bedded in the track !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yippeee. Why didnt it happen? I dont know but its all Bridgestones fault.
 

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