How to save MotoGP

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The California Kid @ Jan 6 2009, 11:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>if your a woman then i forgive you.

He is not a "women" in the ...... sense, but granted, I distinctly remember the forum hottie (though young, du…,etc) was hitting on him (at very least opening the door as I recall); but he didn't take a bite. Perhaps this is why some on here accused him of being a ..... Which if you think about it is not really being a “.....” but its pretty close.

Anyway, how to save MotoGP. Well first of all, I'd start by kicking out all the homos starting with Carmelo for screwing up the series. The control tire is a good thing in theory, but I think Dorna will .... it up somehow. I'd call up Kenny Roberts senior and ask him what to do. I'd follow his advice almost to the letter.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 6 2009, 07:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>MotoGP is broken and yet almost every post is about some intangible, tertiary subject---i.e. global participation or return of the 2-smokes

In reality, all problems can be attributed to a few ill-fated decisions made in the wake of Kato's death. Sadly, each one of the major changes is responsible for the cumulative total of motogp's problems. MotoGP is like a hospital patient with multiple diseases. Even if they treat TB, the patient will still need to overcome lymphoma, and MS. The control tire eliminated TB, imo, now only MS and lymphoma remain.

I am surprised to see you apparently going somewhat easy on ezy, although I do accept that some of his more recent pronouncements have been more sensible, and that there was very genuine concern that there be no repetition of the katoh incident.

I was more in tune with your attitude in 2007, which somewhat presciently seemed to be that ezy was illustrative of what was destroying western civilisation ie the commodification of anything that was ever good for excessive short term gains with no regard for the long term consequences; I hope I haven't paraphrased you too incorrectly .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jan 6 2009, 09:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>SoCal sucks ....

Anywhere in California south of Carmel is called Mexico....isn't it?

Can we return to the real important topic of debate here...Wal Mart.

I once went into a Wal Mart in Cottonwood Arizona to purchase a new camcorder having foolishly taken the previous one into a swimming pool. The place was so huge, I swear it had its own weather systems, and probably time zones too.

It would have been great if the kids staffing the place knew half as much about the electronics dept. as they did the firearms which were in the next aisle. I got the camera I wanted but the beer I also left with which of course had to be concealed in a brown paper bag. So the tins of Colt 45 I'd planned to down that evening were hidden, yet I probably could've walked out brandishing a real one for all to see..at the very least a Winchester to fufill my cowboy fantasies.

Over here in the U.K Wal Mart is Asda. The Car Parks aren't so huge - so you'd probably struggle staging a GP in one (great idea though)...and we don't park diagonally like you do, (we never seem adopt adopt any decent American ideas).

Jumkies nailed this debate in one anyway - just get KRSnr on the blower...problems solved series saved.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jan 7 2009, 02:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I was more in tune with your attitude in 2007, which somewhat presciently seemed to be that ezy was illustrative of what was destroying western civilisation ie the commodification of anything that was ever good for excessive short term gains with no regard for the long term consequences; I hope I haven't paraphrased you too incorrectly .

I still maintain that Ezy was guilty of looting the sport and over emphasizing short term gain in 2007. In my view, his motive was to impress the new rightsholders who had only signed on in July of 2006. I'm sure they were somewhat leery of the change to 800cc capacity and Ezy was trying to champion the new formula to fulfill his fiduciary responsibility to his client.

Now that motogp is heading straight towards an iceberg, Ezy seems to be the only voice reminding people that motogp isn't an unsinkable sporting series. Ezy grew a spine during the control tire proceedings, I hope he continues to make pragmatic changes for the good of the sport i.e. a top speed limit.

A top speed limit is an even bigger risk than the move to a control tire, but if Dorna controls the tires and the top speeds, they can almost guarantee safety for the riders. If safety is guaranteed to the riders, DORNA should be able to repeal the fuel and displacement rules that created the current mess.

I'd like to see an unlimited capacity rule b/c it means rotary technology could be developed for the consumer market, but I'd be willing to accept a return to the 990s

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Jan 7 2009, 04:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Over here in the U.K Wal Mart is Asda. The Car Parks aren't so huge - so you'd probably struggle staging a GP in one (great idea though)...and we don't park diagonally like you do, (we never seem adopt adopt any decent American ideas).

Unfortunately, the world isn't perfect. We don't have many roundabouts in the United States.

We prefer to slam on the breaks, roll through a stop sign at 5mph, then press the gas peddle to the floor. The populace enjoys driving 5000lb cars with 5.0 liter engines, stop signs are killing the planet.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jan 6 2009, 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>SoCal sucks ....
Geez, what does that say about Texas? Have you seen two girls one cup? Eat ....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jan 5 2009, 03:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No point in responding to this response as it completely missed any points made, its writer doesn't understand the concept of building markets over many years and doesn't understand the term 'putting all your eggs in the one basket'.

Again, you seem to miss the subject-object relationship implied in your own thinking.
First you say 'feed the sport more of this and less of that' but fail to tell WHO is supposedly doing the feeding.

Now you speak of not putting all eggs in one basket, but again: WHO is supposedly putting all eggs in one basket?

I suggested that you study the history of the sport so that you may understand how things evolved and came to a certain situation. You seem to think that by applying some 'market building' strategy you can expand this and that, but that kind of business approach, or manipulation, never worked with sports. Think of soccer in the USA.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Jan 7 2009, 01:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Anywhere in California south of Carmel is called Mexico....isn't it?
Your point?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 7 2009, 12:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Your point?

I smell an illegal alien debate coming in 5-4-3-2

The ground work has been set.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Jan 5 2009, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Whilst I don't agree with everything TP70 said he does have some excellent points as well.

Look at all the #52 flags that were flying at Donnington because Toseland was racing.
Then there was the loud Pesek fans in Brno.
Look at how popular Motogp is becoming in Hungary and Talmacsi can take some credit for that.
Then you have Hayden in the US, Stoner in Australia.

The point I'm making is that the fanbase needs to branch out into other parts of the world.
Spanish & Italian riders make up a large portion of the lower classes right now and it might be wise to try to nurture talent from elsewhere. If we add another 5 or 6 spanish or italian riders to the grid or aussie or american riders for that matter, will it create more fans? probably not.
But if some of the new kids entering the lower classes are from countries not synonymous with Motogp then the fanbase can only spread and grow. The tour also needs to take in more countries. Surely South Africa is ready to be re included to the tour? Brazil & Canada perhaps?

If you mention Toseland and the UK, you are mentioning Britain, one of the mother lands of motorcyle racing. Also countries like Czech Republic and Hungary have always been part of motorcycling history, they have been absent for a few decades only because they were satellites of the USSR (and even then manufacturers like CZ managed to develop racing bikes and race them in teh WC in the '60s).

So all this goes perfectly well with what I was objecting to TP70, who was proposing a business-like approach to promoting a sport that has its own character and history and will not obey to any business logic.
You can not create fan bases of motorcycling racing enthusiasts like you make people drink Coca-Cola, just with publicity.

Postscriptum: in this sport, it is not true that a Brazilian fan needs a Brazilian to root for, etc.--it helps no doubt, but it is not a condition. When I was a kid my riders were Mike Hailwood and Jarno Saarinen, whom I liked better than my fellow countryman Agostini. To become a motorcycle racing fan, one needs a motorcycling culture alive in the country where one grows up, transmitted by parents, brothers, friends.
A culture is not something one can improvise or create by any amount of marketing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 7 2009, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You seem to think that by applying some 'market building' strategy you can expand this and that, but that kind of business approach, or manipulation, never worked with sports. Think of soccer in the USA.


Hey, I breathe footy. Although I'm still not an MLS fan, but that has more to do with the product than the sport itself.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 7 2009, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hey, I breathe footy. Although I'm still not an MLS fan, but that has more to do with the product than the sport itself.

That was only an example, I still think it was correct... I know European Football is played a lot in campuses and by many young people in the USA, women included, but has it become a mainstream sport? Big time every Sunday on TV? I doubt it, in spite of all the efforts made to launch it since the '70s--remember Pele finished his career in the USA, but even him did not draw big crowds...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 7 2009, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hey, I breathe footy. Although I'm still not an MLS fan, but that has more to do with the product than the sport itself.

As an older guy from the south,i grew up on American Football. Soccer, to me, is one of,if not the most boring sports i have ever tried to watch. My kids played it so i had to attend and act excited,but to tell the truth,i would have rather been at a doctors office being treated for Bullhead clap. There is no doubt sports interest are cultural and for some reason that culture doesnt seem to take hold,no matter how hard you market it.There are millions of kids playing soccer in the USA but it just doesnt catch on at the college or professional level. At the professional level,there is 2 sports that come to mind that are truly followed by a worldwide audience, car racing and basketball.

Growing up in the US I was never into soccer as a kid. Today its a differnt story i never thought footy could get my blood pumping the way it does (this only applies to the BPL) i love going to the local english pub on weekend mornings and watch Liverpool kick some ... like they will on saturday against arsenal! but thats only because most of the players in the BPL are some of the best in the world. The MLS bores the hell out of me its just not the same. the British Premiere League is the equivalent to Moto gp, The MLS is the equivalent to watching a track day

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 7 2009, 08:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A top speed limit is an even bigger risk than the move to a control tire, but if Dorna controls the tires and the top speeds, they can almost guarantee safety for the riders. If safety is guaranteed to the riders, DORNA should be able to repeal the fuel and displacement rules that created the current mess.

What is a top speed limit going to do on corner and exit speeds? Isn't this where a majority of crashes occur anyway?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 7 2009, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Postscriptum: in this sport, it is not true that a Brazilian fan needs a Brazilian to root for, etc.--it helps no doubt, but it is not a condition. When I was a kid my riders were Mike Hailwood and Jarno Saarinen, whom I liked better than my fellow countryman Agostini. To become a motorcycle racing fan, one needs a motorcycling culture alive in the country where one grows up, transmitted by parents, brothers, friends.
A culture is not something one can improvise or create by any amount of marketing.


Outstanding post...and a great point to finish. This is precisely what is lost on Dorna and its misguided bid for mass mainstream appeal. Had they have grasped this simple concept, then maybe they woudn't have been so quick to shoot themselves in the foot curtailing the British Eurosport coverage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 7 2009, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To become a motorcycle racing fan, one needs a motorcycling culture alive in the country where one grows up, transmitted by parents, brothers, friends.
A culture is not something one can improvise or create by any amount of marketing.



I disagree, certain parts of culture has everything to do with marketing. Pop culture is largely based on marketing, look at our President-elect

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jan 7 2009, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What is a top speed limit going to do on corner and exit speeds? Isn't this where a majority of crashes occur anyway?

Nothing. The control tire, minimum weight, and minimum wheelbase rules all handle entry and exit speeds.

I suppose in theory DORNA could control top speed with the tires by making low exit speeds onto the straight and low entry speeds into turn 1, but I'd rather see the bikes have more freedom of design and less emphasis on squeezing maximum power out of 800cc. A top speed limit would allow them to ditch conventional displacement rules. Acceleration would be paramount. GP bikes already wheelie all over the track so more power wouldn't make them significantly faster, but it would eliminate the importance of displacement rules and lead to greater freedom of design.

What's the point of squeezing max power out of 800cc? Are production bike limited by capacity? I'm confused as to what the manufacturers claim they are learning

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jan 7 2009, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I disagree, certain parts of culture has everything to do with marketing. Pop culture is largely based on marketing, look at our President-elect

I'll bite.

Only those susceptible to the marketing you mean. As in the ongoing marketing campaign of Fox to brain wash its weak-minded & susceptible viewers. Though many were bamboozled by marketing the worst possible pick on the heals of the worse possible performance of any presidency and party in the history of the nation, as evidenced by the many votes they got; luckily, not all were suckered by their propaganda. Hence, the President-elect.