How to save MotoGP

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayden Fan @ Jan 7 2009, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>For ....'s sake, I want to talk racing.

Ben, Mods, I really think you need to ...
Dude, your demands and calls are pretty hypocritical considering you went off on a rant trying to be the self-appointed grammar Nazi and calling the Kid out on what 'country's' he's from. You just committed the two biggest ..... moves on a forum, call somebody on grammar and call on the mods to your rescue. Now you get a little heat and your reaction is to call on daddy? If you throw rocks, its best you don't live in a glass house...

Look man, this thread is a bit crazy, I get it. And we all are having a bit of fun ranting and venting. Threads like this happen every now and again. They usually iron themselves out in the end without the forum ..... screaming foul.

Ok, so in the interest of good will and your sudden interest in getting back on topic, will do. How to save MotoGP: In short, if somebody was to look it up, I remember KRSr talking about some major problems facing the sport when he was being squeezed out? He mentioned that Dorna made no attempts to keep the smaller teams viable. He also mentioned that it was difficult to get sponsors when the coverage only presents impressions (marketing talk) of the top three bikes during a race. He alluded to the idea that viewership revenue was generate in part by ALL the field collectively and therefore some profit sharing would be appropriate. I think he also mention there needed to be some stability in the rules and longevity of the machines (which they are talking about now). He said some other stuff to but can't remember off hand.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayden Fan @ Jan 8 2009, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>For ....'s sake, I want to talk racing. This was a semi-decent forum that had actual race talk. but because I made a low attempt at trying to comment on a fellow members grammar, and because this forum if full of people who do not use their heads before posting or use the Personal Message option, they make this place ....... useless. Why did I leave last October? Because the political .... being discussed was wiggling itself into each and every thread or and post and pissed me off. I came back slowly as the election ended and thought it was fine and dandy, but you people need to just shut the .... up and talk racing.

Ben, Mods, I really think you need to evaluate your stance on political discussion. I do not call for it to be banned, as it will still rear it's ugly head, but dammit, it needs a place of it's own.

I call for all posts dealing with politics in this thread to be deleted, and if needed, suspensions handed out (I'll nominate myself as I seemingly started this .........). This .... tears apart this forum, and I really think advertisers and possible new members will choose elsewhere (like Autosport.com) because of this .... we do.


Relax HF, I though you vanished because you were sick of being called gay. Its only politricks. It dose'nt matter who's president, its the same people who control them and no its not ye the people. Calling for bans and suspensions is pathetic. Are you going to deny people the freedom of speech, just because you don't like the subject matter? Ah poor baby.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 7 2009, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And yet you failed to realize the hidden genius.

Hey Lex, Obama's good will toward man is a big trick. He intends to eat the entire human race.


It's a cook book!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayden Fan @ Jan 7 2009, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yeah, but there are hundreds of others things to talk about than bitching back and forth like everyone here seems to enjoy.
We beat the 'Hopkins is a drunk' horse to death already. What else is there? I hate politics more than anyone I've met. My theory is they're all criminals but no one wants to hear me rant about it. Anyways, tune it out. Or make fun of it. Although those responses take away your ability to criticize politics, something I'm more or less fine with.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 7 2009, 06:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dude, your demands and calls are pretty hypocritical considering you went off on a rant trying to be the self-appointed grammar Nazi and calling the Kid out on what 'country's' he's from. You just committed the two biggest ..... moves on a forum, call somebody on grammar and call on the mods to your rescue. Now you get a little heat and your reaction is to call on daddy? If you throw rocks, its best you don't live in a glass house...

Look man, this thread is a bit crazy, I get it. And we all are having a bit of fun ranting and venting. Threads like this happen every now and again. They usually iron themselves out in the end without the forum ..... screaming foul.

Ok, so in the interest of good will and your sudden interest in getting back on topic, will do. How to save MotoGP: In short, if somebody was to look it up, I remember KRSr talking about some major problems facing the sport when he was being squeezed out? He mentioned that Dorna made no attempts to keep the smaller teams viable. He also mentioned that it was difficult to get sponsors when the coverage only presents impressions (marketing talk) of the top three bikes during a race. He alluded to the idea that viewership revenue was generate in part by ALL the field collectively and therefore some profit sharing would be appropriate. I think he also mention there needed to be some stability in the rules and longevity of the machines (which they are talking about now). He said some other stuff to but can't remember off hand.
Okay but you didn't answer my previous question. Did Butters accidentally disorganize the pantry and you got Hamburger Helper in your milk this morning rather than Nesquick powder? Because you seem awfully grumpy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 7 2009, 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We beat the 'Hopkins is a drunk' horse to death already.
I think you're confusing the Kawasaki Out thread with this one which has been solely about how to save MotoGP...


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 7 2009, 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Okay but you didn't answer my previous question.... you seem awfully grumpy.

Yeah, I have been on a tear lately. Hell I've even started to eat my how fellow Nicky fans. I think I know what the problem is Austin. There is a critical imbalance in the universe that is this forum. My nemesis is absent and I'm running amuck. Nicky fans being the light and truth have gone unchecked by the dark side of the forum which was Roger. You would think it would be like utopia here with him gone, but I guess in the devil serves his purpose.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 7 2009, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You gleaned that info from his biography? Thank you for using an unbiased reference

Please provide a source for info that refutes my statement or backs up yours. Preferably one not related to Fox News. Preferably not one that you dreamed up in the shower.

Did someone say ....S.....

( . ) ( . )

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 7 2009, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh, and one last thought. Lex, you ....., the Kid said no BMWs at Wal Mart and you equated that with racism? You're the ....... racist if you think only Whites can afford luxury cars you moron. I think the point was about class not ethnicity. You want a racist look at Migs comment. Now saying that Obama was elected because of "affirmative action" makes you a racist...on top of being a ....... .......

Please point out my racist comment?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 7 2009, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Now that motogp is heading straight towards an iceberg, Ezy seems to be the only voice reminding people that motogp isn't an unsinkable sporting series. Ezy grew a spine during the control tire proceedings, I hope he continues to make pragmatic changes for the good of the sport i.e. a top speed limit.
Scarily, you may well be correct that ezy is the best hope for fixing many of the current problems, albeit problems he had a large role in creating in the first place. Certainly available evidence suggests that the manufacturers left to their own devices would screw things up even more severely, and FIM seem to have departed to a plane of existence removed from ours or become a bahamian shelf corporation or something of that ilk.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Jan 1 2009, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. The two strokes have repeatedly proven that they are amenable to close racing(

You say that, but another popular topic around here at the moment is that some of the closest racing going these days is world superbike, a 4 stroke formula. Superbike also offered considerably closer racing than motogp in the 90's.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 3 2009, 03:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We need some major infusion of money from big time companies who have it and want to advertise to this particular target audience.

This is the reason i suggested the superbike motogp merge could benefit the sport. Two series' which most would agree are fairly similar (and getting increasingly so) but who compete for audiences, and more importantly sponsorship and investment.

The birth of the problems in motogp arose from the fact tha historically the sport was a hobby for enthusiasts who could afford it, but increasingly the sport has become a business. Initially the sport was seen as a good business opertunity and exploited as such, but now the sport has become reliant on the business' exploiting it to the point that it needs to change to suit them, in the form of making the racing more exciting or staging GP's in countries that will invest money into the sport rather than ones with the best tracks, riders or racing herritage. It's a path almost impossible for the sport to backtrack down, so we're stuck with it. F1 has travelled further down this path than motogp so might provide a clue of whats to come. At the extremes of this theme you can observe the differences between WRC and NASCAR, i think its facinating.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jan 3 2009, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1c: Stop feeding the sport with just Italians and Spanish riders. If you look at the lower catagories it is full of riders from these countries. Why would other countries tune in? MotoGp has an over supply of riders from 4 countries: Italy, Spain, Australia and the US. What about the other 160 odd countries? Broaden the appeal by broadening the base.

3c: Allow other stars to shine. The show is about Rossi. If you can't sponsor Rossi then go somewhere else is the mind set of corporations. Have you ever heard of Yamaha of who ever pays Rossi struggling to come up with the dollars? No. Why? Because that is who it has been about for too long. They should have cherrished the likes of Hayden and Stoner when they beat Rossi but since then the focus has been change the situation so Rossi can win again. Do I need to bring up the Bridgestone blackmail?

Firslty the sport is not fed with spanish and italian riders, it's not a coincedence that the countries who have a stronger motorcycle racing culture produce more of the top riders. In fact Dorna subsidize riders from minority markets to try and widen the interest of the sport where they can.

Also, i find your point about allowing other riders to shine interesting. I agree that Rossi is by far the most significant figure in motorcycle racing and that could be considered damaging, but in some respects the less significant riders are over marketed. I read or heard something a while ago where it was put foreward that the 125 and 250cc championships need to have their importance decreased, because riders in these classes are marketed as superstars and attract huge amounts of sponsorship as a result. This ties in again with superbikes doing the same thing in parallel. Look at F1, the junior catagories are considerably less promoted than in motorcycle racing, to the point that most GP2 drivers are relative nobodies. This ensures that all the major sponsorship money and promotion finds its way into the elite class. Perhaps a similar approach to motogp could be beneficial?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jan 6 2009, 02:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>here's my idea... 450 singles to replace 125s... 600s to replace 250s... and 1000's for GP

All manufacturers have these bikes and engines... They run factory specs (to save money)
BUT can do whatever they please...for example... the 1000 CC engine has to be in spec as far as size...but can be fully built...all the guts, even a totally different material for engine block...but it all has to stay similar to factory spec...

In a thread which has been so widely off topic its nice to see someone actually dealing with the topic in hand and making a suggestion they've thought through. And from such an unlikely source too. Nice one Curve

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 7 2009, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I suppose in theory DORNA could control top speed with the tires by making low exit speeds onto the straight and low entry speeds into turn 1, but I'd rather see the bikes have more freedom of design and less emphasis on squeezing maximum power out of 800cc. A top speed limit would allow them to ditch conventional displacement rules. Acceleration would be paramount. GP bikes already wheelie all over the track so more power wouldn't make them significantly faster, but it would eliminate the importance of displacement rules and lead to greater freedom of design.

What's the point of squeezing max power out of 800cc? Are production bike limited by capacity? I'm confused as to what the manufacturers claim they are learning

A top speed limit would not eliminate a power race, engineers would simply look for power and torque that could be used out of the corners and too accelerate. So rather than increasing design freedom, you would simply be reducing the number of considerations for the engineers and giving them less compromises to deal with.

As for the point of squeezing maximum power out of a limited capacity, it leads to challenges in reducing internal losses, cooling systems, oil circulation, combustion efficiency and so on. All the kinds of technology the factories and oil companies can use in their future products. I'm not saying these things would be insignificant in an unlimited capacity formula, but deficiencies in these areas could be overcome by making a bigger engine, and then trying to get its weight down. thats a spending race waiting to happen.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 8 2009, 07:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In a thread which has been so widely off topic its nice to see someone actually dealing with the topic in hand and making a suggestion they've thought through. And from such an unlikely source too. Nice one Curve

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Jan 8 2009, 12:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Please point out my...
See edit. (I think I put you there as a Freudian slip, its not like I'm that far off the mark anyway methinks).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jan 8 2009, 06:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

Don't bye the ... kissing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 8 2009, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>See edit. (I think I put you there as a Freudian slip, its not like I'm that far off it mark anyway methinks).



Don't bye the ... kissing.

i'm not..its free

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marijke @ Jan 8 2009, 02:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thread warned.


Thanks Hayden Fan, you should change your forum handle to Buzz Kill.

No need for me to be here since I see Tom, in his infinite knowledge, has formulated how to save the sport.

Ok, last post by me on this thread (off season sucks).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 8 2009, 06:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

Thanks Hayden Fan, you should change your forum handle to Buzz Kill.

No need for me to be here since I see Tom, in his infinite knowledge, has formulated how to save the sport.

Ok, last post by me on this thread (off season sucks).
well it was the ongoing calling people racist from someone on here that made the thread get warned. not the political banter nor the grammar police.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 8 2009, 05:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No need for me to be here since I see Tom, in his infinite knowledge, has formulated how to save the sport.

I never claimed to have all the answers, but i wont apolagise for actually wanting to discuss the topic at hand. Peace

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marijke @ Jan 8 2009, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well it was the ongoing calling people racist from someone on here that made the thread get warned. not the political banter nor the grammar police.
One comment: it's tough to react appropriately to a warning if you don't know what it's for. Maybe an included reason/cause would be useful.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Jan 8 2009, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>One comment: it's tough to react appropriately to a warning if you don't know what it's for. Maybe an included reason/cause would be useful.

maybe who gives a .......do as your told or face the consequences



Back on topic... Topless umbrella girls ..nuff said

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 7 2009, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hey Lex, Obama's good will toward man is a big trick. He intends to eat the entire human race.


It's a cook book!

Oh sure . . ., the press releases one lousy picture of Rahm Emanuel preparing lunch
and everybody starts jumping to conclusions.