How to save MotoGP

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anders GUZZI @ Jan 3 2009, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The racing might be good on two strokes because of their nature but i'm more of the simple minded who likes to hear thunder from 990's rather than the sound of bees.

Ha, love that one !!!!! Your right anders, 2 stokes sound like tree felling tools...
I much more 4 stroke fan, spitfire bikes !!!
All 2 stroke lovers can F off

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayden Fan @ Jan 2 2009, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Energy drinks have no where near the money that Phillip Morris has. Red Bull brings in for the year what a tobacco company brings in a year in a large city. Most are only being held alive because of the soda industry.

Agreed on the tobacco/alcohol. You can drink yourself to death in under an hour, but it takes you 30-40 years to kill yourself, and even that is hit and miss.

Good point, but I don't think they make that much anymore. Over half the pack cost goes to government.

Also to add to your point, I haven't heard of too many smoking-while-driving crashes killing innocent families on the highway.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayden Fan @ Jan 2 2009, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jumkie, Tom does say many coherent things, but you have to read beyond what he actually typed.

How far beyond? (don't answer)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Jan 2 2009, 02:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Can we get back to how to save MotoGP rather than talking of the downfall of corparate money in the sport !
I think that is part of Hayden Fan's point. We need some major infusion of money from big time companies who have it and want to advertise to this particular target audience.

My 4 cents:

1c: Stop feeding the sport with just Italians and Spanish riders. If you look at the lower catagories it is full of riders from these countries. Why would other countries tune in? MotoGp has an over supply of riders from 4 countries: Italy, Spain, Australia and the US. What about the other 160 odd countries? Broaden the appeal by broadening the base.

2c: STOP ....... WITH THE RULES. Again for the brain dead who run the show. STOP ....... WITH THE RULES!

3c: Allow other stars to shine. The show is about Rossi. If you can't sponsor Rossi then go somewhere else is the mind set of corporations. Have you ever heard of Yamaha of who ever pays Rossi struggling to come up with the dollars? No. Why? Because that is who it has been about for too long. They should have cherrished the likes of Hayden and Stoner when they beat Rossi but since then the focus has been change the situation so Rossi can win again. Do I need to bring up the Bridgestone blackmail?

4c: Race in more countries. Seriously 3 races in Spain and 3 in Italy. Go back to the first point. Broaden the ....... base for christ sake.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Jan 3 2009, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ha, love that one !!!!! Your right anders, 2 stokes sound like tree felling tools...
I much more 4 stroke fan, spitfire bikes !!!
All 2 stroke lovers can F off
For cornering, a two stoke is untouchable.
For power output:capacity ratio, a two stroke is untouchable.
For excitement, a two stroke is untouchable.
Finally, for the level of skill required to ride one fast, a two stroke is untouchable.
It makes for good racing.

I don't understand your animosity towards the two stroke. I have owned numerous four strokes and two strokes, but riding the 2T is all excitement and fireworks. A four stroke feels refined and polite, but a two stroke feels angry and alive.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Jan 3 2009, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>For cornering, a two stoke is untouchable.
For power output:capacity ratio, a two stroke is untouchable.
For excitement, a two stroke is untouchable.
Finally, for the level of skill required to ride one fast, a two stroke is untouchable.
It makes for good racing.

I don't understand your animosity towards the two stroke. I have owned numerous four strokes and two strokes, but riding the 2T is all excitement and fireworks. A four stroke feels refined and polite, but a two stroke feels angry and alive.
+1

I really wish I'd hung on to my RG500, especially as I can't afford another one now given the prices they fetch these days.

Maybe those who dislike 2Ts were not fortunate enough to have owned one, particularly a large capacity one.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Jan 4 2009, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>+1

I really wish I'd hung on to my RG500, especially as I can't afford another one now given the prices they fetch these days.

Maybe those who dislike 2Ts were not fortunate enough to have owned one, particularly a large capacity one.
RG500s have an aggressive powerband, great fun. I like the V23 RGV250 though!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Jan 3 2009, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>RG500s have an aggressive powerband, great fun. I like the V23 RGV250 though!
The last RGV250 I rode was back in the early/mid 90s and I found its handling somewhat spiteful. The mate who owned it loved it, though. I think it had a lot to do with riding style - he had to hold lots more corner speed than I needed to on the 500 or on a 4T - and he was rather good at it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Jan 4 2009, 01:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The last RGV250 I rode was back in the early/mid 90s and I found its handling somewhat spiteful. The mate who owned it loved it, though. I think it had a lot to do with riding style - he had to hold lots more corner speed than I needed to on the 500 or on a 4T - and he was rather good at it.

Not much beats passing the squids on their brand new litre bikes on a 10 year old 250.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Jan 3 2009, 05:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Can we get back to how to save MotoGP rather than talking of the downfall of corparate money in the sport !


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Jan 3 2009, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ha, love that one !!!!! Your right anders, 2 stokes sound like tree felling tools...
I much more 4 stroke fan, spitfire bikes !!!
All 2 stroke lovers can F off

After admonishing everyone to get back on topic, your next post is as left field as anyones!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anders GUZZI @ Jan 3 2009, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yea,i know.I realise some of you guys have followed Moto GP for ages,but from the start i have never been a fan of two strokes.I'm sure the 500's were gave amazing races though.I don't remember having access or i simply didn't hear too much about Moto GP before 2003.So ,i was kind of hoping for Ducati to make something and in 2006 it was like a dream come true until Gibernau decided to be a bowling ball.Stoner has ofcourse made up for that,but it's not the same.
The racing might be good on two strokes because of their nature but i'm more of the simple minded who likes to hear thunder from 990's rather than the sound of bees.

Yeah, a lot of guys didn't like hearing my RZ350 buzzing by them in the twisties either... BTW 2 smokes are better at spittin' fire as well!!

Let MotoGp implode itself for now. It needs to be fixed and noone in charge wants to change the direction to where it is a multinational competitive sport. If it takes going away in order for it to come back better than so be it.
Someone ( I think it was Lex ) stated a while back that they wanted to see the baddest riders on the baddest bikes. I don't think we've been seeing that for the last 2 years with the exception of Stoner and his Ducati. The other manufacturers still seem to be trying to develop a workable 800cc bike.
I don't care for watching a developmental league in any sport.
MotoGp is in a downturn right now and I don't have any answers to fix it but int the end the world revolves around money and ...... If truly the sport was flourishing 3 years ago with less rider aids and more horsepower than those with the wallets will inevitably point it back in that general direction.

How can some of you make an arguement for bringing back 2 strokes.
You might as well throw your Ipod in the trash and bring back the Walkman.
I can't buy a 2 stroke anything anymore. Even weed wackers are now 4 strokes.

BTW If anyoe's got an xtra 10g's to throw aroud my buddy is selling his RZ500

you say you don't what to watch a development league

you say you want to watch the baddest bikes on the planet

and then you question bringing back 2 strokes

a 500 stroker is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay "badder" than any 4 stroke unless that 4 stroker is 1.5 liters

and WTF is up with all the idiots saying to "combine" sbk and gp? seriously, who are you people

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnnyKnockdown @ Jan 4 2009, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Let MotoGp implode itself for now. It needs to be fixed and noone in charge wants to change the direction to where it is a multinational competitive sport. If it takes going away in order for it to come back better than so be it.
Someone ( I think it was Lex ) stated a while back that they wanted to see the baddest riders on the baddest bikes. I don't think we've been seeing that for the last 2 years with the exception of Stoner and his Ducati. The other manufacturers still seem to be trying to develop a workable 800cc bike.
I don't care for watching a developmental league in any sport.
MotoGp is in a downturn right now and I don't have any answers to fix it but int the end the world revolves around money and ...... If truly the sport was flourishing 3 years ago with less rider aids and more horsepower than those with the wallets will inevitably point it back in that general direction.

How can some of you make an arguement for bringing back 2 strokes.
You might as well throw your Ipod in the trash and bring back the Walkman.
I can't buy a 2 stroke anything anymore. Even weed wackers are now 4 strokes.

BTW If anyoe's got an xtra 10g's to throw aroud my buddy is selling his RZ500
Fair point Johnny, motoGP should probably go down like most of the major banks in the USA should have. A new series would arise, even if it took a few years to get it worked out. It's not the end of the world. WSBK can easily fill the gap. Get rid of the incompetent idiots running the series and bring it back in a few years, making it a true prototype series. I always liked the theory of someone (not sure who), who said 2 wheels, (X) litres of fuel - build whatever you want. That's a true prototype series. None of this ........ with control tyre, control ECU, control whatever.
It'll never happen of course, and in reality it'd probably be pretty boring, rather like racing solar powered cars. But unless a prototype series is truly innovative, then it's really a waste of time and money, except for a few people or corporations. For the vast majority of people it's a distraction from the normal/mundane elements of their daily lives. But they can also get their racing fix from something else, be it superbikes,supercross speedway etc. I think the .... has hit the fan economically, and corporations are going to want a lot more bang for their buck in a lot of sports, not just motorsports.
The other (not insignificant matter), is that the combustion engine is fast becoming an engine of the past, like the horse, like steam, it will be usurped by something else, and it's not that far into the future. The people who are willing the two stroke back are being too sentimental.
Hey, I love 2 strokes, I only just sold my '81 RD 350 2 months ago. I loved that bike, i'd had it over 10 years, but it's a relic, belonging to an era that has now passed, even if some people still race them. But they to are soon to be phased out of road racing. It's sad, I especially love watching the 125's, nearly always the best race at a GP meeting.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jan 3 2009, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My 4 cents:

1c: Stop feeding the sport with just Italians and Spanish riders. If you look at the lower catagories it is full of riders from these countries. Why would other countries tune in? MotoGp has an over supply of riders from 4 countries: Italy, Spain, Australia and the US. What about the other 160 odd countries? Broaden the appeal by broadening the base.

2c: STOP ....... WITH THE RULES. Again for the brain dead who run the show. STOP ....... WITH THE RULES!

3c: Allow other stars to shine. The show is about Rossi. If you can't sponsor Rossi then go somewhere else is the mind set of corporations. Have you ever heard of Yamaha of who ever pays Rossi struggling to come up with the dollars? No. Why? Because that is who it has been about for too long. They should have cherrished the likes of Hayden and Stoner when they beat Rossi but since then the focus has been change the situation so Rossi can win again. Do I need to bring up the Bridgestone blackmail?

4c: Race in more countries. Seriously 3 races in Spain and 3 in Italy. Go back to the first point. Broaden the ....... base for christ sake.

Really good post.
Even though I like Rossi, I agree 100% that Rossi is becoming bigger than the sport. The sport needs to work on its image to attract average fans. Develop superstars that people will follow. Look at F1. How many people go to an F1 race that are not motor racing fans... lots. Why ???
The racing is no better than MotoGP. You know one of only 2 - 3 cars will win.

I want to add.....
Forget the comparrison to World Superbikes.
The SBK bikes are now 1200cc, and are using much of the same technology as MotoGP. Its not surprising they are close to the same lap times, but who cares. Factories are using more and more equip from the MotoGP bikes in their road bikes, so the SBK bikes are getting faster and faster. Most punters at the tracks are not going to know (or care) what the lap time comparrisons are. They just want to see good racing be part of the atmosphere, and see their fav riders and teams.

Moto GP is bloody expensive, but it is sustainable with some good management, and support from the big factiories. Moto GP should be attracting other teams.
Factory teams run in MotoGP to promote their bikes.
Private teams run as a business, and tyo make money. If the sport is managed right they can still make money.

The key to Moto GP is to maximize the income into the series and this should be shared amongst all teams. There is massive amounts of money coming in, from;
Ticket sales for each round (or fees from promotors / track owners)
Corporate sponsorship
TV rights
Merchandise.
If that income was shared amongst all teams, there would be millions of Dollars a year to each team. Add in team sponsorship, and there should be sufficient money to run the show at current levels.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nuts @ Jan 4 2009, 10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If that income was shared amongst all teams, there would be millions of Dollars a year to each team. Add in team sponsorship, and there should be sufficient money to run the show at current levels.
For me, this is the crux of the problem for both motogp and F1. Both are being run by business organisations with a primary aim of making money for said organisations. Both dorna and bernie's mob for many years have been so greedy, stupid and focused on short term profit they don't appear to have had any concern for their own long term profitability, let alone keeping anything in reserve when the respective sports face a rainy day.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Jan 2 2009, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ha, love that one !!!!! Your right anders, 2 stokes sound like tree felling tools...
I much more 4 stroke fan, spitfire bikes !!!
All 2 stroke lovers can F off


The above from someone who's never been within five feet of an actual
500cc GP bike. These bikes were awesome and the likes of Roberts, Doohan,
Gardner, Schwantz and Rainey feared and respected these notoriously treacherous machines.
Hey there little 4-stroke street-bike dudes - do your mommies even let you wear long pants yet?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jan 3 2009, 04:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My 4 cents:

1c: Stop feeding the sport with just Italians and Spanish riders. If you look at the lower catagories it is full of riders from these countries. Why would other countries tune in? MotoGp has an over supply of riders from 4 countries: Italy, Spain, Australia and the US. What about the other 160 odd countries? Broaden the appeal by broadening the base.

2c: STOP ....... WITH THE RULES. Again for the brain dead who run the show. STOP ....... WITH THE RULES!

3c: Allow other stars to shine. The show is about Rossi. If you can't sponsor Rossi then go somewhere else is the mind set of corporations. Have you ever heard of Yamaha of who ever pays Rossi struggling to come up with the dollars? No. Why? Because that is who it has been about for too long. They should have cherrished the likes of Hayden and Stoner when they beat Rossi but since then the focus has been change the situation so Rossi can win again. Do I need to bring up the Bridgestone blackmail?

4c: Race in more countries. Seriously 3 races in Spain and 3 in Italy. Go back to the first point. Broaden the ....... base for christ sake.

1. Well, so your saying, let riders who might not be as skilled as a Dani Pedrosa or Valentino Rossi and let saw, Leon Haslam race? The riders from those countries have the funding and talent to make the lower levels. The best should race. Should not have rules to enforce riders from certain countries, as that just hurts the fan base.

2. Rules need to be consistent, true.

3. Rossi makes the money. So your going to put Pedrosa or Stoner on television adverts and expect the same outcome as Rossi. Hayden is already doing enough. He was to the point in 2007, that I myself was thinking he was overrated, with the amount of attention he was getting. Stoner is not very liked or is very likable. Rossi is a marketing dream. Decent looks, dominating abilities in anything he seems to do. He is very likable.

4. Again, who is paying the bills? Spain and Italy. The US IMO, should only have one round, as the popularity of that race is still small.

Broadening the base is already as far as it is. South America is not very bike rich. South Africa does not have a large enough fanbase to allow a promoter to make money on an event. North America is a far as it will ever be IMO.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jan 3 2009, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My 4 cents:

1c: Stop feeding the sport with just Italians and Spanish riders. If you look at the lower catagories it is full of riders from these countries. Why would other countries tune in? MotoGp has an over supply of riders from 4 countries: Italy, Spain, Australia and the US. What about the other 160 odd countries? Broaden the appeal by broadening the base.

2c: STOP ....... WITH THE RULES. Again for the brain dead who run the show. STOP ....... WITH THE RULES!

3c: Allow other stars to shine. The show is about Rossi. If you can't sponsor Rossi then go somewhere else is the mind set of corporations. Have you ever heard of Yamaha of who ever pays Rossi struggling to come up with the dollars? No. Why? Because that is who it has been about for too long. They should have cherrished the likes of Hayden and Stoner when they beat Rossi but since then the focus has been change the situation so Rossi can win again. Do I need to bring up the Bridgestone blackmail?

4c: Race in more countries. Seriously 3 races in Spain and 3 in Italy. Go back to the first point. Broaden the ....... base for christ sake.


Really impressive thinking.
Here are 3 questions:

- Please tell us WHO (or what evil entity) is 'feeding the sport' mostly ITA and SPA, or AUS and USA riders (while you are at it, maybe explain also WHO is feeding the sport mostly Japanese bikes! ) .

- Please tell us WHY 'more countries' do not have any racetracks. Maybe they have been destroyed by the above evil entity?

- Please explain HOW MotoGP races can be organized in countries of the world where there has never been any real following of the sport. Hint: there are not many Qatars in this world, where they can burn money just to appear on TV.

Before prescribing a medicine for a sport, at least take the pain to learn its history. It would make you understand the WHY's and HOW's much better, and maybe you would understand why certain countries have come to play more important roles than others.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 5 2009, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Really impressive thinking.
Here are 3 questions:

- Please tell us WHO (or what evil entity) is 'feeding the sport' mostly ITA and SPA, or AUS and USA riders (while you are at it, maybe explain also WHO is feeding the sport mostly Japanese bikes! ) .

- Please tell us WHY 'more countries' do not have any racetracks. Maybe they have been destroyed by the above evil entity?

- Please explain HOW MotoGP races can be organized in countries of the world where there has never been any real following of the sport. Hint: there are not many Qatars in this world, where they can burn money just to appear on TV.

Before prescribing a medicine for a sport, at least take the pain to learn its history. It would make you understand the WHY's and HOW's much better, and maybe you would understand why certain countries have come to play more important roles than others.



No point in responding to this response as it completely missed any points made, its writer doesn't understand the concept of building markets over many years and doesn't understand the term 'putting all your eggs in the one basket'.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 4 2009, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not much beats passing the squids on their brand new litre bikes on a 10 year old 250.
Spot on. Nothing beats it.