Hack MotoGP journalist David Emmett/Kropo of Motomatters discussion
- Thread starter JPSLotus
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Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Agree. One of many disturbing aspects of this incident was that Rossi arbitrarily decided Marc had done something so wrong that it justified being eliminated by crashing him out. Judge jury execution.
Let's imagine a world where every time a rider got passed cleanly, the overtaken rider imagining the maneuver as egregious proceeds on torpedoing the guy. Bad enough right? We would all look on in horror and think, WTF, that guy lost his mind, we need to get him off the track immediately and see if he's got a concussion or some impediment to his judgment. We need to get him and others out of danger right now. We can worry about the points later, what we just saw was so out of wacky that something is obviously wrong mentally here.
Now consider what actually happened! The authorities sat back and thought, holy .... that was crazy, let's just see what happens next, we're not going to err on the side of safety on this one. The overwhelming opinion was, well, that was justified because Marc didn’t pass him cleanly just once, he passed him cleanly several times, that's unacceptable! I still shake my head at the logic. You'll remember the same vein of prosecutorial articles as we read after Argentina, but in this case they cited the number of passes as if this was a crime. What's laughable is that some journalists even presented the number as if for every pass Marc took Rossi didn’t have an equal number. That's how overtaking works after all. Nobody thought to ponder, wait, why are Marc's passes crimes and Rossi's passes saintly? The whole thing still makes me shake my head in disbelief. How was Rossi's license not suspended, disqualified, and banned immediately pending a full review of his mental state? The entire journalistic corps was exposed for its bias and cowardice, the governing body was exposed for its corruption, the sport was exposed as a farce. Argentina has only served to confirm the farce is still the reality today.
If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Let's not forget that Marc who was the victim was shamed like he was some piece of trash for doing nothing other than racing. That is victim blaming and a tactic used to try and discredit victims of sexual assault - "she was asking for it" or "she shouldn't have been wearing that outfit". Rossi's behavior was frankly ....... disgusting and qualified as assault with intent to injure. Only weak-minded people such as kropo or RCV would actually assign blame to Marc. Shameful.
Only weak minded people would quit a forum and then crawl back a few weeks later.
Shameful.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
RCV6, I appreciate you attempting to answer and debate.
For the record, I have a different take on Marc's "apology", I don’t see it as conceding the entire incident was his fault, but rather acknowledging his part in an unfortunate incident. Rossi also had some responsibility in that incident, once you scrutinize it, not that he copped to it. I see Marc's apology as a conciliatory gesture, which reflected well on the man. Rossi's refusal was also reflective of his misplaced sense of self-importance (let's not put this on Uccio, Rossi was right there in the garage and can be seen in the video when Uccio goes grandfatstanding).
The irony of Rossi's emotional and verbal outburst, as you concede above regarding the attention others don't receive, is a function of the skewed "respect" Rossi demands. As I said before, it's crazy that Marc was penalized in a race where Zarco's caused crash of Pedrosa was barely a footnote. That my friend is disrespectful.
If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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Likewise. Even though we sometimes disagree, you concede the point when you see new info (and I try to do likewise).
"Today what happened with Valentino was a mistake, a consequence by the track conditions because I locked the front." - Marquez. Pretty clear wording mate.
Rossi carried on excessively afterwards. He was very dramatic. He clearly has a huge ego, there's no doubt about that. You're right that Rossi's complaints get way more airtime. That's because modern MotoGP is like a soap opera. Some fans hate Rossi and watch to see him lose and fail. Others are fanboys who think he does no wrong. These elements of the fanbase cause Rossi's complaints to get a lot of airtime.
It's like a guy who injures Ronaldo in a game. It's different to injuring Lozano.
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Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
7th place in the championship, hasn’t done .... for 3 races, has lost the title 8 years in a row. Why are you people still talking about him?
Just type “I hate Rossi”. We get the point. No need to keep repeating it ad nauseum. Sanctions, penalties, .... talking, drama, conspiracies, theatrics bla bla bla. He still isn’t winning and he’s not the story, no matter how much you wish it to be.
Just type “I hate Rossi”. We get the point. No need to keep repeating it ad nauseum. Sanctions, penalties, .... talking, drama, conspiracies, theatrics bla bla bla. He still isn’t winning and he’s not the story, no matter how much you wish it to be.
I thought he was going to block me. Just like JPSLotus was going to leave the forum.
The word of these guys is as solid as diarrhea.
He'd be close to the championship lead if MM hadn't taken him out, actually.
Don’t hold your breath, I am still waiting for Theo to block me and curryfart to uphold the troll pledge.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
He’d be even closer if he was faster, but 9 years in a row have shown us that he just isn’t
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Also, I'd like to revisit something you said in a post somewhere recently. You said Rossi didn't impeded Casey at LS08, but rather described it as merely "racing for position." I can't be bothered to go back and find the quotes, but I recall well enough what Rossi said about his strategy, which was in fact to employ the tactic of slowing Stoner down and disrupting his rhythm, because he explained Stoner was much faster than him and it would be the only way he could challenge. This is a tactics that if employed in the next round at Jerez by Marc (where the M1 is as expected to be strong) he would be blacked flagged. No way would we accept today by Marc against Rossi what Rossi did to disrupt Stoner in that race. I was actually in attendance, and it was clear and obvious, which was later confirmed by Rossi post race explanation, that his only chance was to obstruct and interfere with Stoner who had an obvious far superior pace. In the current era which I'd like to coin as the CUNTT RRossi era of racing: 'Cannot Use Normal Tactics To Race Rossi', what Rossi did at Laguna Seca 08 would bring about an immediate disqualification to Marc.
Consider this, had Marc employed the tactic Rossi used against Stoner at LS08, Rossi would by his own formulation of Sepang, conclude that crashing out Marc deliberately to be entirely justified. Where the overwhelmingly sentiment would be in agreement. That IS what so perverse about the new era we have now entered. Make no mistake, we have just witnessed a paradigm shift of the sport as of Argentina to COTA.
If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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As I recall he was dealing with health issues and said he wouldn’t be posting for a while.
What sort of weak - minded to say nothing of malicious person would take him to task for that, while constantly accusing other posters of not reading your posts ( an ordeal admittedly, but luckily I can speed read) or not watching the races?.
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Well I sure hope he feels much better after he got his itty bitty bits nipped and tucked into a lotus.
Again JK, the main response in this thread, conceivably by people who hate Rossi admittedly, is to MM being vilified including by Rossi, and receiving an in-race penalty which Rossi has never received despite several similar incidents, admittedly spread over many years.
As I always say, except on this forum vilification of Rossi is a tiny percentage of the total vilification in respect of MotoGP racing, which is and has been historically almost entirely of Rossi’s rivals, which is why the posters on this forum who are or were mainly fans of other riders developed the attitudes they have.
You have been around long enough to remember when this forum was 90% pro-Rossi and anti—Stoner or whomever else and it was the likes of Jumkie and I who were putting up the dissenting arguments as RCV does now.
No doubt not a very entertaining forum if you are a Rossi fan though.
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Let's first consider the premise: I don't know if Rossi deliberately slowed Stoner.
If we assume that premise, however, there is a huge difference between the two situations.
If Rossi slowed Stoner, he did not do so to favour a third rider and to hurt the championship hopes of someone he doesn't like. He did it to better his own position. The latter is the aim of racing. The former is not.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Well, can we apply your premise of LS08 towards Sebang15?: "I don't know if Marc/Rossi deliberately slowed..."
If we start from there then we must accept both LS08 (as you do) AND Sebang15 as acceptable norms of "racing".
The problem I see is that you've applied a double premise of the double standard variety. For LS08 you start off with the notion of honesty, for Sebang15 you start off with the notion of guilt.
I've argued that Rossi deliberately impeded Marc (that's the other way around what you argue). Let's juxtapose the motivations for a moment here. Rossi needed that 3rd position but didn’t have the pace to outright secure it. (I don’t believe he had the pace to challenge for the win nor 2nd). That means Rossi recognized he needed to deploy the strategy exactly as he saw Stoner, his only chance to secure 3rd (16 points) was to impede, obstruct, and disrupt Marc. The problem arose when pesky Marc wasn't eliminated like unwitting Stoner, which required a more desperate tactic culminating with the eventual attack to crash Marc out.
I'm sure you just read my formulation like I'm some crazy person, based on your assumptions that Rossi is incapable of such a Machiavellian scheme. But I would point out there is a historical account of Rossi employing such a strategy (LS08). Second, this argument above has as much validity as assuming yours, which paints Rossi as honest Abe, just trying to "race for position" honorably when in fact there have been documented cases where Rossi has admitted to ruthless cunning strategies, I'm reminded of his endorsement toward tire development that he viewed to be detrimental to his rivals which he later admitted was a tactic of competitive strategy. It's as likely that Rossi strategized to impede Marc at Sebang given he had dedicated quite a bit of thought to the prospect he faced from practices, not dissimilar to the prospect he faced and formulated during LS08.
Regarding the vid you posted of Marc's press conference. That's a very interesting clip, I've watched it several times, and again right now. You are focused on him conceding the mistake based on (as he put it) the sketchy conditions, a "wet patch". I'm not sure how you go from there to accepting it was penalty worthy. Marc makes the case the conditions were such that even with the best skill on display, rather than infallibility, the conditions played a part, as he points out even other were effected by these "difficult conditions", that at worst produced un-penalized racing incident, the message being, not penalty worthy but rather reasonable racing incidents. You seem to be mounting the case that because he concedes the conditions induced a mistake that therefore it was worthy of punishment. Truth is RCV6, that these "mistakes" are rarely if ever punishment. The best example of this is Jerez 11. The supposed message from Race Direction is, we accept that such tricky conditions produce unfortunate unintentional situations. Therefore the penalty illustrates RD deviated from that norm, I argue because it involved Rossi. I'm aware you position is that it was done based on a plurality of penalties. Which is exactly why I make such a big deal about those incidents tgat have gone unpunished. We could reasonably point to a plurality of punishments Rossi would have received had Race Direction been consistent.
Anyway RCV6, I think we are both compelled to present our sides of the argument, which as I said is appreciated.
If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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