Guareschi: I've never seen a talent like Casey

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 8 2010, 11:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Only an Emu would say Stoner is not a great racer

Wins in the current formula:

Stoner 20
Rossi 20


Not a great racer

Stoner is currently the most talented, rider/racer out there bar none. Many in the paddock/around the paddock, are saying it so there must be somethng in what they see and hear about. They can make assessments based on a closer look at all those "hidden" things we just can't get access to, eg. just how good is the Duc.?

All this "not a racer" talk is just self dispensation to appease the masses ( the boppers ), and is a sideline to the real issue, many are saying Stoner is better ..... and are saying "better than Rossi". Even Tardossi prepared for the reaction to his belief ( ie. that such inane comments as "but Rossi is a better racer .... would be sought ) with a preliminary rebuttal of such doctrine.




If however, if the assessment includes ........ attracts irrationally needy fans, then Stoner looses out
I would like to agree with your argument, and have some hope that I will be in a position to do so after this season, but cannot now even regardless of history prior to 2007, due to the small matter of valentino having won the last 2 championships.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 9 2010, 10:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Only seven!!! you ungrateful wretch!!
Maybe 8 then.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 9 2010, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would like to agree with your argument, and have some hope that I will be in a position to do so after this season, but cannot now even regardless of history prior to 2007, due to the small matter of valentino having won the last 2 championships.

Sadly for Duc., I think that given the past several "other riders" performance, there is a lot of questioning at "just how good/bad is the Duc."

Unfortunately injected into that question is the mindless prattle of the Boppers, who can't accept that Stoner is "the best", so have huge rumours going around about the Duc. being the easiest thing to ride since sliced bread. Those close to Stoner know just what he does on that bike, and they also see that he bears a lot of the irrational Bopper hate, and seem willing to comeout and put their 2c worth in.

In effect Guaresci, Tardossi, Rossi, Spies, Hayden, Melandri, etc. etc. etc., are all saying "the Duc. is as good as "the other riders", its just that ...... Stoner is amazing".

And that is why 08 and 09 are Rossi's best ever years, and he knows it.

Its also why its important for there to be another rider who goes well on the Duc. and is possibly why we hear of "Haydens newfound speed" with little else said, as to how

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ Mar 9 2010, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Maybe 8 then.


8 ...... hmmmm if you were my son you'd be maybe back to "just being struck off the will".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 9 2010, 04:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sadly for Duc., I think that given the past several "other riders" performance, there is a lot of questioning at "just how good/bad is the Duc."

Unfortunately injected into that question is the mindless prattle of the Boppers, who can't accept that Stoner is "the best", so have huge rumours going around about the Duc. being the easiest thing to ride since sliced bread. Those close to Stoner know just what he does on that bike, and they also see that he bears a lot of the irrational Bopper hate, and seem willing to comeout and put their 2c worth in.

In effect Guaresci, Tardossi, Rossi, Spies, Hayden, Melandri, etc. etc. etc., are all saying "the Duc. is as good as "the other riders", its just that ...... Stoner is amazing".

And that is why 08 and 09 are Rossi's best ever years, and he knows it.

Its also why its important for there to be another rider who goes well on the Duc. and is possibly why we hear of "Haydens newfound speed" with little else said, as to how
I agree 2008 was rossi's best win, more so than 2004. He basically rode almost flawlessly, making about 1.5 riding errors in the year, and in many races mid-season, obviously particularly at laguna, found large amounts of time over the course of race weekends to enable him to compete with stoner. He made many more errors than is his habit in 2009, whether because jorge pushed him or because he was less focused, but certainly jorge challenged him more than the biaggis and gibernaus of old.

I think the bike that rides itself theory has been fairly thoroughly debunked now, but I don't like to get into the bike advantage thing either way, as it has always been part of the game for the best rider to get on the best bike or develop their bike into being so.

rossi crashed out 4 times in 2004

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 9 2010, 06:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree 2008 was rossi's best win, more so than 2004. He basically rose almost flawlessly, making about 1.5 riding errors in the year, and in many races mid-season, obviously particularly at laguna, found large amounts of time over the course of race weekends to enable him to compete with stoner. He made many more errors than is his habit in 2009, whether because jorge pushed him or because he was less focused, but certainly jorge challenged him more than the biaggis and gibernaus of old.

I think the bike that rides itself theory has been fairly thoroughly debunked now, but I don't like to get into the bike advantage thing either way, as it has always been part of the game for the best rider to get on the best bike or develop their bike into being so.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nghiemlong @ Mar 9 2010, 07:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>rossi crashed out 4 times in 2004
In 2004 Rossi had 2 DNFs, 9 wins, 2 2nds and 3 4ths.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 8 2010, 11:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Only an Emu would say Stoner is not a great racer

Wins in the current formula:

Stoner 20
Rossi 20


Not a great racer

Stoner is currently the most talented, rider/racer out there bar none. Many in the paddock/around the paddock, are saying it so there must be somethng in what they see and hear about. They can make assessments based on a closer look at all those "hidden" things we just can't get access to, eg. just how good is the Duc.?

All this "not a racer" talk is just self dispensation to appease the masses ( the boppers ), and is a sideline to the real issue, many are saying Stoner is better ..... and are saying "better than Rossi". Even Tardossi prepared for the reaction to his belief ( ie. that such inane comments as "but Rossi is a better racer .... would be sought ) with a preliminary rebuttal of such doctrine.




If however, if the assessment includes ........ attracts irrationally needy fans, then Stoner looses out
Who said stoner is not a great racer ?? Didn't read the posts again before getting on your high horse did you
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>(yamaka46 @ Mar 7 2010, 10:01 AM)
Whilst I agree that Stoner is the most talented rider currently on the grid I think that Rossi is the most talented racer.
Yamaka said rossi is the most talented and looking at the past 2 seasons since stoner won the wc i dont think thats at all unfair.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Mar 9 2010, 09:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who said stoner is not a great racer ?? Didn't read the posts again before getting on your high horse did you

Yamaka said rossi is the most talented and looking at the past 2 seasons since stoner won the wc i dont think thats at all unfair.


You're a bit late Rog. .... I've already set the record straight ........ you can't come in now after the fact and claim some other hoohickey.

SO far you have Yamaka says otherwise v's Tardossi, Rossi, Guaresci, Spies, Hayden, Mel .... the list goes on .... I know you've chosen Yamakas point of view ....... I've chosen the other few

Too late and too many have accepted it, the list of "in the know" who extoll the virtues of Stoner grows. Just go back to the couch and grumble into that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Mar 8 2010, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not trying to be difficult - but that's not really an explanation. When GP racers
are trying to achieve the best pole position - they are not trading paint - but they're
still racing. They are - as they say, racing the track not each other - but they are
still riding competitively so it's still racing. Pedrosa is not known for slicing and dicing
but he is known for his frequent appearance on the podium. I've never seen Rossi
or any other rider with a 12 second lead all of a sudden slow down so that the guy
behind could battle it out for the sake of entertaining the crowd. Racers race to win.
Stoner and Pedrosa get a lot of .... largely because they're not as charismatic as
Rossi. They don't provide as much "theater" as the Italian. A lot of folks seem to
confuse spectacle for race-craft. I enjoy watching Rossi and Lorenzo fight it out
as much as anyone and last year Lorenzo treated us to some high drama and
gained a lot of admirers - but he also crashed a lot. Stoner on the other hand
is known for getting out front and more frequently arriving at the checkered
flag with the shiny side up - which makes him a "Racer". Pedrosa has come back
time and again from horrendous injury, fighting a tide of negative press, riding
the poorly developed Honda and being undermined by his ....... of a manager
and continues to end up on the podium finishing ahead of a lot of other world
class GP competitors. If he's not a racer - what does that say about the guys
who are finishing behind him?
"Racing the track" is riding in my terminology. Getting to the front and checking out requires lots of talent as a rider as well as a good setup and obviously a good machine. It doesn't require lots of talent as a racer.

Racing happens when you don't have enough to check out and other riders stay with you. Then racecraft comes into play. Too many times we have seen Pedrosa caught and passed by Rossi, Lorenzo or Stoner and appear to give up and drift backwards at that point. I recall Dovi passing him once last year and Pedrosa seemed to remember what racing was about and re-passed his team mate. I remember being surprised due to the fact that this is not normal behaviour for Pedrosa. Superb self-belief is part of the arsenal of being a racer and Pedrosa seems to get demoralised by being overhauled. Bayliss, on the other hand, had to work on tempering this part of his skillset as he would get passed and then attempt to repass instantly without weighing up whether right now was as appropriate as in a couple of corners. Often it'd go awry for him. He'd mostly resolved that element of his racing talent in 2008 and it made him close to unbeatable for many parts of the season.

Let me put it another way, surely you have watched a series and thought "rider X is never going to be WC - he doesn't have what it takes". This may well be despite several wins. This is what I mean by racing talent as opposed to riding talent.

For BarryMachine :
So far I have said that Stoner is the most talented rider, Pedrosa is a talented rider who is not a talented racer and that Rossi is the most talented racer on the current grid.

I have not said that Stoner is not a talented racer, nor that Rossi is not a talented rider.

I don't think that you can realistically state that Stoner has been the best racer over the last 2 seasons given that Rossi won both WCs, but that does not imply that Stoner is not a very talented racer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 9 2010, 11:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>SO far you have Yamaka says otherwise v's Tardossi, Rossi, Guaresci, Spies, Hayden, Mel .... the list goes on .... I know you've chosen Yamakas point of view ....... I've chosen the other few
My POV has never disagreed with the OP on this thread where Guareschi was extolling Stoners riding abilities. Non of the elements he mentioned are racing abilities and I have simply pointed out that IMO Rossi is the better racer at the moment despite the fact that Stoner is the better rider. How else do you think he managed to beat Stoner to the 2008 WC?

2009 is rather more moot as Stoner was unwell for several races early on and, even if he had attended the whole season, his challenge for the WC was lost. We'll see what happens in 2010 soon

Remember Stoner is still young in comparison to Rossi and will doubtless still be honing his racer skillset. Also remember that I am not a bopper

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Mar 7 2010, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

I can tell the diff between a slipped of the foot peg and a leg dangle for balance thank you. And besides the last time i had lunch Eddie Lawson he said Keith Code was full of .....

That must be why Eddie Lawson brings his nephew only to the California Superbike School...he likes people training him who are full of ....???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keith Code @ Mar 9 2010, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That must be why Eddie Lawson brings his nephew only to the California Superbike School...he likes people training him who are full of ....???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (slev7n @ Mar 5 2010, 03:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
FAAACK! i can not brake witha my toesa in the middle of the corner! gerry!!!!
waaa!!! i want a nutella sandwich!!

How many people within the industry lurk in this place? This is ridiculous.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keith Code @ Mar 9 2010, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That must be why Eddie Lawson brings his nephew only to the California Superbike School...he likes people training him who are full of ....???

Burn...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 7 2010, 12:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>MotoGP bikes are in perpetual development and they are rarely perfect. Advantage Rossi. He's got 7 MotoGP titles b/c he understands the game. But I rate Stoner as the most talented rider on the grid.

A bit contradictory here bro! 'Understanding' is part of 'Talent' too!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 7 2010, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Two guys buy the same bike. One guy keeps his polished and in perfect tune. The other guy immediately sets about the business of adding hundreds of custom parts simply b/c that's what he wants to do. It says nothing about their riding abilities or their inherent worth as people.

Rossi likes a silencer. Why? Just because. It probably only reduces volume by 5db. He just wants it! It's really quite amusing to read other people try to give it a technical justification (same thing with the leg dangle). For instance, the silencer is for stalking other riders. Rossi wants it b/c he wants it. It does nothing. It's only technical purpose is to give Termi some ad space.

Wasn't it Burgess who wanted the 'Silencer' even before Rossi appeared in Top Class?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 8 2010, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sadly for Duc., I think that given the past several "other riders" performance, there is a lot of questioning at "just how good/bad is the Duc."

Unfortunately injected into that question is the mindless prattle of the Boppers, who can't accept that Stoner is "the best", so have huge rumours going around about the Duc. being the easiest thing to ride since sliced bread. Those close to Stoner know just what he does on that bike, and they also see that he bears a lot of the irrational Bopper hate, and seem willing to comeout and put their 2c worth in.

In effect Guaresci, Tardossi, Rossi, Spies, Hayden, Melandri, etc. etc. etc., are all saying "the Duc. is as good as "the other riders", its just that ...... Stoner is amazing".

And that is why 08 and 09 are Rossi's best ever years, and he knows it.

Its also why its important for there to be another rider who goes well on the Duc. and is possibly why we hear of "Haydens newfound speed" with little else said, as to how

If you could only read comments stating that Pedrosa is the 'Best' and how Rossi fans cannot accept it in Blogs from Spain, you would not believe it! But sometimes it sounds pretty much the same…

http://www.marca.com/2010/03/01/motor/mund...tml#comentarios

Sorry if it is in Spanish.

They are both great but different in every respect other than being the two best motorcycle riders in the sport. It's funny that someone said Rossi is more involved in the development and Stoner is not. I remember the same thing being said about Schumacher and Montoya. Both great but different involvement and expectations.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Mar 10 2010, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you could only read comments stating that Pedrosa is the 'Best' and how Rossi fans cannot accept it in Blogs from Spain, you would not believe it! But sometimes it sounds pretty much the same…

http://www.marca.com/2010/03/01/motor/mund...tml#comentarios

Sorry if it is in Spanish.

oh so a bunch of forum posters say ..... whatever they saying....


My interest is in the manner that so many "close to the paddock" or riders etc. say Stoner is the best.

including ex-Duc. employees who go out of their way to say there are no negotiations, I take this to mean best racer, best rider, best whatever you choose. And one can see why he has said that as almost instantly the Boppers tried to break it down to leave Rossi acrumb or two by attempting to say Rossi is the best racer But no that would be "misinterpretting" the paddock talk.

So if Stoner is seen as the best rider and racer, and yet he came 4th last year ....... what is it they are seeing?

Are they expecting the Duc. to be good in 2010?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Mar 9 2010, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How many people within the industry lurk in this place? This is ridiculous.

I hope Ezy doesn't read.

I'd be banned from attending; though, I have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt in his recent tussle with the MSMA.