Guareschi: I've never seen a talent like Casey

There is an article in AMCN in Australia that Rossi has to take a pay cut next year due to Yamaha reporting their worst loss ever. Brivio was saying that he has to negotiate Rossi down because they can't afford to pay his current salary.

This could lead 2 ways. Rossi goes - doubt that. Or having 3 top (expensive) riders goes - more likely. Maybe we will see some less proven (cheaper) riders on Yamaha satellite bikes in 2011 supporting Rossi and Spies on the factory bikes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Mar 11 2010, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is an article in AMCN in Australia that Rossi has to take a pay cut next year due to Yamaha reporting their worst loss ever. Brivio was saying that he has to negotiate Rossi down because they can't afford to pay his current salary.

This could lead 2 ways. Rossi goes - doubt that. Or having 3 top (expensive) riders goes - more likely. Maybe we will see some less proven (cheaper) riders on Yamaha satellite bikes in 2011 supporting Rossi and Spies on the factory bikes.
Well in the current financial environment i would thing there's a few pay cuts among other cuts being negotiated. Im not sure on the standard of AMCN's reporting and facts but if its anything like our MCN i would take it with a large pinch of salt.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Renjith @ Mar 11 2010, 03:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What more do you want? An official statement from Suppo? But I haven't seen anything similar from Yamaha directed towards Stoner recently. Obviously it should be going on 'hush hush'

There was an official statement from Honda's big wig too... 'Suzuki' is his name? The irony of the name, but still Honda's big wig (I don't know if he still is around though).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Mar 11 2010, 04:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is an article in AMCN in Australia that Rossi has to take a pay cut next year due to Yamaha reporting their worst loss ever. Brivio was saying that he has to negotiate Rossi down because they can't afford to pay his current salary.

This could lead 2 ways. Rossi goes - doubt that. Or having 3 top (expensive) riders goes - more likely. Maybe we will see some less proven (cheaper) riders on Yamaha satellite bikes in 2011 supporting Rossi and Spies on the factory bikes.

In a financial crisis, if your best 'selling jewel' requires anything, that's the last thing you get rid off or cut. It would be like seeing the storm falling and opening the hose to water the grass!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Renjith @ Mar 11 2010, 09:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Next year will tell whether 'people who matters' (read Honda/Yamaha/Ducati managers) consider Casey as the best rider present or not. I see no reason for Yamaha to demote Stoner to second place status if they are convinced that he is better than Rossi. The rossi being a good developer also shouldn't matter as supposeldly Casey can rider around small problems with the bike.

One thing I don't understand is when someone raises the issue of Casey not walking away from Ducati if it is so bad, people jump up saying he gets everything he want at Ducati. To me then there is no point in saying Casey rides an inferior bike. He is just choosing what suits him the best.

Cheers
Renjith
Everyone knows rossi is still the best, but not by as a great a margin as during most of his career; what I have never understood is why this leads those of your ilk to revile casey as you have most if not all others who have ever been vaguely competitive with valentino. There surely is some middle ground between being very good but not as good as valentino and deserving death by torture.

There are some of us who also see some irony in again those of your ilk complaining about claims concerning the ducati being a difficult bike; I seem to recall more than a few claims in 2007 that the bike rode itself with little or no input from casey which it is vaguely possible has provoked a reaction from stoner fans. The screamer bike obviously suited casey, but was demonstrably difficult for everyone else.

Whilst valentino is healthy and motivated he will always be the most in demand, but this again doesn't mean all other riders are worthless or not in demand at all. I agree with barry on this occasion that there is little precedent for top factory riders to break their contracts, but honda have expressed significant interest in stoner whilst he is still under contract anyway. Whilst it may be true that yamaha have not expressed much interest in stoner of late, I don't recall any display of interest in yamaha from stoner either . If valentino wants to go for several more years I doubt lorenzo will be at yamaha in 2011 let alone stoner.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 11 2010, 07:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Everyone knows rossi is still the best, but not by as a great a margin as during most of his career; what I have never understood is why this leads those of your ilk to revile casey as you have most if not all others who have ever been vaguely competitive with valentino. There surely is some middle ground between being very good but not as good as valentino and deserving death by torture.

There is a middle ground, even lots of spots, problem is some want to set other riders (not only Stoner as here in Powerslide) higher than Rossi, which is what we just cannot see.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 11 2010, 07:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There are some of us who also see some irony in again those of your ilk complaining about claims concerning the ducati being a difficult bike; I seem to recall more than a few claims in 2007 that the bike rode itself with little or no input from casey which it is vaguely possible has provoked a reaction from stoner fans. The screamer bike obviously suited casey, but was demonstrably difficult for everyone else.

Whilst valentino is healthy and motivated he will always be the most in demand, but this again doesn't mean all other riders are worthless or not in demand at all. I agree with barry on this occasion that there is little precedent for top factory riders to break their contracts, but honda have expressed significant interest in stoner whilst he is still under contract anyway. Whilst it may be true that yamaha have not expressed much interest in stoner of late, I don't recall any display of interest in yamaha from stoner either . If valentino wants to go for several more years I doubt lorenzo will be at yamaha in 2011 let alone stoner.

I guess the package fitted Stoner excellent in 2007, but Burguess / Rossi made the package fit since 2004.

Just a couple of things, I don't particularly want to add to this mess of a thread but I do have a few thoughts.

1. The talk of Stoner being the best that's been coming out over the past couple of months is bound to happen. He's the only man currently capable of handing Rossi his own ... on occasion. Lorenzo was there for the most part of 2009 but he doesn't seem to have that same dominance that Stoner has when healthy. When you have someone who can beat the GOAT, people are going to talk.

But I think the reason we've only been hearing about Stoner in this way has to do with the length of Rossi's career. We've known Rossi is the most talented rider in the paddock for about a decade now. Now there appears to be an heir. Makes a bit of sense that the headlines are Stoner is the most talented, doesn't it? Trying to sell papers with headlines of "Brivio: Rossi has more talent than anything I've seen" is going to work about as well as "Rossi wins 2003 World Championship!!" Thanks for the newsflash...

2. Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly but I seem to recall the end of 2006 silly season going a bit differently. Hayden was the prize jewel at the time and he was entertaining offers from Honda, Yamaha and Ducati. When he made the announcement than he and Rossi decided it would be best for him to stay out of Yamaha, there was noise about Burgess and Yamaha showing some interest in Stoner. There were also some rumors that Rossi nixed that idea. It wasn't until Hayden declined Ducati's offer and Ducati couldn't free Melandri from his Gresini contract that they signed Stoner to a one-year contract.

Honda didn't seem to show any interest in promoting Stoner. Yamaha appeared interested but never made any sort of formal advancement. It wasn't until Ducati had failed to sign two other riders before they finally moved forward with Stoner, and it appeared at the time that he was only keeping a seat warm for the inevitable signing of Melandri.

I think there is some bitterness from Stoner. At least that's the impression I get. I can understand that frustration, but it's apart of the business.

I think that's all I had to say on the subject. At least it's all I can remember now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Mar 11 2010, 06:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is a middle ground, even lots of spots, problem is some want to set other riders (not only Stoner as here in Powerslide) higher than Rossi, which is what we just cannot see.

A classic example of Rossibopper circular logic!  

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 11 2010, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Everyone knows rossi is still the best, but not by as a great a margin as during most of his career; what I have never understood is why this leads those of your ilk to revile casey as you have most if not all others who have ever been vaguely competitive with valentino. There surely is some middle ground between being very good but not as good as valentino and deserving death by torture.

There are some of us who also see some irony in again those of your ilk complaining about claims concerning the ducati being a difficult bike; I seem to recall more than a few claims in 2007 that the bike rode itself with little or no input from casey which it is vaguely possible has provoked a reaction from stoner fans. The screamer bike obviously suited casey, but was demonstrably difficult for everyone else.

Whilst valentino is healthy and motivated he will always be the most in demand, but this again doesn't mean all other riders are worthless or not in demand at all. I agree with barry on this occasion that there is little precedent for top factory riders to break their contracts, but honda have expressed significant interest in stoner whilst he is still under contract anyway. Whilst it may be true that yamaha have not expressed much interest in stoner of late, I don't recall any display of interest in yamaha from stoner either . If valentino wants to go for several more years I doubt lorenzo will be at yamaha in 2011 let alone stoner.

Can you point to a single post of mine in which I revile Casey or his riding? Infact, I consider him a very dangerous rival to Valentino but with a totally different style which is not to my taste. But I have only respect for him. Though I am a fan of Valentino I understand that without Casey in motogp, I would have missed the fun when he got back the championship in 2008. It is competitors like Stoner and Lorenzo who make Rossi look even better when he beats them
The entire point of my post was against the single minded illogical 'Stoner is the best' chant by Barry. It is not a black & white picture out there about who is the best rider.

Cheers
Renjith

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Mar 11 2010, 07:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is a middle ground, even lots of spots, problem is some want to set other riders (not only Stoner as here in Powerslide) higher than Rossi, which is what we just cannot see.



I guess the package fitted Stoner excellent in 2007, but Burguess / Rossi made the package fit since 2004.

Exactly...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geonerd @ Mar 11 2010, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A classic example of Rossibopper circular logic!

I am a Bopper Geonerd, you know me...

But I am not alone!

It kind of mirrors the Mladin/Spies situation. Mladin/Rossi, old .......s who rule the track and the best challenger Spies/Stoner with an iron fist then one day....whammo old guy is finished. Stoner is getting championship tutelage of the highest order. One day all of it will be his. And funny enough then it will be Stoner/Spies!

Its good to see some things never change round this place

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Mar 12 2010, 09:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And funny enough then it will be Stoner/Spies!

Good post.

This bit is what I'm thinking is something that maybe "paddock talk" is looked at, Spies has made comments about Stoner, has Spies identified Stoner as the "real competition" for the future?
Though Spies is not up to speed yet, his history definitely carries some cred. Perhaps some are applying the formula they saw him operate to in the past?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 12 2010, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Good post.

This bit is what I'm thinking is something that maybe "paddock talk" is looked at, Spies has made comments about Stoner, has Spies identified Stoner as the "real competition" for the future?
Though Spies is not up to speed yet, his history definitely carries some cred. Perhaps some are applying the formula they saw him operate to in the past?

Don't you think BM, this paddock talk is bit premature especially when Rossi won last 2 championships.

Is this thread the forum equivalent of "Men Who Stare at GOATs"?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Mar 11 2010, 11:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It kind of mirrors the Mladin/Spies situation. Mladin/Rossi, old .......s who rule the track and the best challenger Spies/Stoner with an iron fist then one day....whammo old guy is finished. Stoner is getting championship tutelage of the highest order. One day all of it will be his. And funny enough then it will be Stoner/Spies!

Except Rossi isn't old, he just been on the top forever, and that second part haven't happened (yet).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Mar 12 2010, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't you think BM, this paddock talk is bit premature especially when Rossi won last 2 championships.

Yes I do.

Thats what is odd about it, why is it so this year?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Mar 11 2010, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is a middle ground, even lots of spots, problem is some want to set other riders (not only Stoner as here in Powerslide) higher than Rossi, which is what we just cannot see.
I would not characterise you personally as a member of an ilk of any description anyway .

Renjith annoyed me momentarily to the extent that I thought there were signs of ilkishness, but a subsequent post was quite reasonable.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 12 2010, 03:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Except Rossi isn't old, he just been on the top forever, and that second part haven't happened (yet).

My right ball is crystal.