Gran Premi Monster Energy de Catalunya(spoilers mixed with stoner/rossi talk)

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Rossi wins another race and this forum gets all uptight and the vitriol and hate turns up few knotch. You better get used to it, this will be happening very often this year, 8 more to reach Ago, still 2 more years after this one left for more championships and wins. What will become of the schizoids here with tens of thousands of posts and hours and hours of wasted time should any of this happen? It's actually comical to read these people trying to discredit MotoGP history as if their wall of text on faceless forum count for anything? There is going to be some people here who will need to be institutionalize if that happen.
 
moto vudu said:
Based on what Rossi said, JL wasn't showing any initiative to talk to Rossi even before Rossi made accusations. I'm not bothered if they two struggle to be friends. They want nothing more than to beat each other.
Click to expand...

In both my quick reading of the Crashnet article and your excerpt from it Rossi talks of this year. The accusations to which I refer and which fundamentally altered my view of Rossi occurred at the end of last season, starting with that Sepang press conference. Again, Rossi is still continuing that narrative ie that he is the wronged party.
 
moto vudu said:
Rossi said that since he returned to Yamaha, he was always first to initiate communication with JL. This year he waited to see if JL initiated anything, of course he didn't so now they don't talk. No big deal unless you want to make it a big deal to have a topic to discuss until the next race. Since you obviously don't want to discuss Rossi's awesome performance for the next 3 weeks.
Click to expand...

And prior to his return, when they were first team mates?

There is history that goes far back with these two, and not all of it is the fault of the guy that wears #99

Media spin is a wonderful thing.
 
Jumkie said:
Ok bro, How do you prefer I describe it?

How about:

Rossi deliberately put the guy who extended his hand to him today in danger, the type of danger that could cause a catastrophic outcome.

Or how about: Rossi's move could have resulted in manslaughter.

Is that more reasonable?

The fact is once Rossi deliberately initiated the non-racing maneuver any outcome was his responsibility, the result was to put Marquez in a predicament that could have ended in death. I'm not sure logically how this can be disputed. I chose to describe it in such terms to express the inconvenient reality of such an incident.
Click to expand...

no. not much better for me.
i can logically dispute it this way. One rider was much better than another rider on this day. one rider felt he was being being assaulted and harassed by the better rider (...... with if you prefer). attempted to diffuse the situation and slowed down and went wide. and bad .... resulted. play stupid games win stupid prizes.
this makes just as much sense to me (actually a lot more) than a person attempting to murder someone if front of multiple Hi DEF cameras, in front of millions of spectators in broad daylight. which is your theory. because forget about Carmelo. forget about dorna. If you try to MURDER someone in front of millions of people, the real authorities get involved. and you go to prison. no matter who you are.
assaults happen in the football, basketball, soccer every match. but if someone attempts to actual murder.... come on.
 
paparazzo said:
Rossi wins another race and this forum gets all uptight and the vitriol and hate turns up few knotch. You better get used to it, this will be happening very often this year, 8 more to reach Ago, still 2 more years after this one left for more championships and wins. What will become of the schizoids here with tens of thousands of posts and hours and hours of wasted time should any of this happen? It's actually comical to read these people trying to discredit MotoGP history as if their wall of text on faceless forum count for anything? There is going to be some people here who will need to be institutionalize if that happen.
Click to expand...

Our resident expert in cod psychology returns. And why do you post yourself, pray tell?
 
steeeeeve said:
no. not much better for me.
i can logically dispute it this way. One rider was much better than another rider on this day. one rider felt he was being being assaulted and harassed by the better rider (...... with if you prefer). attempted to diffuse the situation and slowed down and went wide. and bad .... resulted. play stupid games win stupid prizes.
this makes just as much sense to me (actually a lot more) than a person attempting to murder someone if front of multiple Hi DEF cameras, in front of millions of spectators in broad daylight. which is your theory. because forget about Carmelo. forget about dorna. If you try to MURDER someone in front of millions of people, the real authorities get involved. and you go to prison. no matter who you are.
assaults happen in the football, basketball, soccer every match. but if someone attempts to actual murder.... come on.
Click to expand...

That's why I asked if 'manslaughter' is better.

Drunk drivers don't set out to kill people, but their actions often do. It may sound nicer to say the driver didn't mean to murder anyone. But the result is the same. The driver decided to do what he did, as much as Rossi decided to cause a crash based on his own perception. His decision to deliberately cause a crash could have resulted in death. We can call it manslaughter if you like. But you want it watered down further.

That drunk guy's bad DECISION resulted in an innocent person have a "bad prize" err died.

1. Decision=responsible
2. Cause=attempt
3. Crash=consequence
4. Possible: nothing, injury, death
5. Description: "bad prizes"= manslaughter=murder.

Your issue is "intent". Ok, so let's call it Rossi attempted manslaughter. He didn't mean to murder him, though it could have resulted in death, like manslaughter. Better?
 
Last edited:
Jumkie said:
That's why I asked if 'manslaughter' is better.

Drunk drivers don't set out to kill people, but their actions often do. It may sound nicer to say the driver didn't mean to murder anyone. But the result is the same. The driver decided to do what he did, as much as Rossi decided to cause a crash based on his own perception. His decision to deliberately cause a crash could have resulted in death. We can call it manslaughter if you like. But you want it watered down further.

That drunk guy's bad DECISION resulted in an innocent person have a "bad prize" err died.

1. Decision=responsibly
2. Cause=attempt
3. Crash=consequence
4. Possible: nothing, injury, death
5. Description: "bad prizes"= manslaughter=murder.

Your issue is "intent". Ok, so let's call it Rossi attempted manslaughter. He didn't mean to murder him, though it could have resulted in death, like manslaughter.
Click to expand...

so you are changing what you've been saying all this time?
because you've been saying murder a long while. do you now retract all of that?
murder is much different than manslaughter. and it covers a lot more than DWI's. intent is huge. sounds like we agree there was no intent at least.

edit- also. to be clear. unlike you i still don't believe rossi caused a crash on purpose. and i have to go with my own judgement in this case because i liked both riders a lot during the time of the incident. and you hated rossi with the intensity of 1000 suns. so your's is prejudicial to me.
 
Last edited:
steeeeeve said:
so you are changing what you've been saying all this time?
because you've been saying murder a long while. do you now retract all of that?
murder is much different than manslaughter. and it covers a lot more than DWI's. intent is huge. sounds like we agree there was no intent at least.
Click to expand...
Well if it makes you feel better, I think I'm ok saying manslaughter, though I prefer murder. In my mind it makes little difference, his actions could result in death of himself or Marquez (or another rider for that matter, because an untimely wash out could have a rider collide with Marquez's bike at rest. And as you can see, this caused Salom's death.)

You seem to know Marquez's intent, and also Rossi's. Can I have the same privilege? Can I say Rossi meant to "murder" Marquez? Or only you be the one who knows what Rossi intended to do?

Road rage is what Rossi suffered, and in the heat of the moment the perpetrator is capable of committing murder. Often this type of mental meltdown is referred to a 'a crime of passion'. A guy sees his girl in bed with another guy, loses his mind, gets a gun in that moment and kills him. Or road rage, a guy gets cut off, the other dude rams his car into the side causing other guy to hit a tree and die.

Rossi suffered one of these episodes! Frankly extremely typical of such an incident. He projected it by flailing his arm, transmitting to us spectators the escalation of his lapse in judgment. You seem to reason he was momentarily insane enough to be sane. I don't. I think Rossi intended to harm Marquez. It was a typical road rage mental breakdown. He did something extremely extraordinary, in all the years I've watched I can't think of any other incident that is similar. Can you? This was so atypical that if I may, like you, decided what his state of mind was, then I chose to describe it as attempting murder. How about 2nd degree, like a crime of passion? At very least manslaughter, like a drunk fatality.
 
No. I have never seen that many passes in one lap.
It can also be described as a person being harassed by another driver who finally decides to just pull over and the unexpected move causes the harasser to crash. It happens.
I'll agree to disagree. But the whole murder thing was getting pretty tiresome.
 
michaelm said:
I apply it to people who employ it, which Pap does in most posts, you only on some of yours. There are a number of practitioners of cod psychology on here, nearly all people who have difficulty making actual arguments.
Click to expand...

Sir, what is point to make arguments on this forum? You can not argue with schizoids who can not remain objective no matter what. The hate here is very deep, the vitriol so strong but at same time very amusing, I feel it through my monitor. Your anger, 'and those of your ilk', today comes from fact you can not find fault or excuse for this performance. Can't blame tires, electronics, crashes, rain, wind, humidity, engines, the Pope... No excuse, everyone got schooled today by 37 year old guy and watching him cross the line must have been painful to watch.

I know when all the records are broken there will be people here who will be on suicide watch, and I only half joking. It is also funny reading your posts, trying so hard to remain objective but like a scorpion, you can not hide your true nature. I stand by and watch, and laugh when the term 'GOAT' will be indisputable.
 
steeeeeve said:
No. I have never seen that many passes in one lap.
It can also be described as a person being harassed by another driver who finally decides to just pull over and the unexpected move causes the harasser to crash. It happens.
I'll agree to disagree. But the whole murder thing was getting pretty tiresome.
Click to expand...
I hear you. I just prefer to describe this incident without mincing words.

I had a buddy take issue with me saying Michael Vick "tortured innocent dogs". He said all Vick did was host and promote "dog fighting" events at his house. He said I was being very dramatic. I argued that dog fighting was torturing these animals because they were trained to inflict harm, pain, and death. He called ........ on me, saying I was just being sensational and exaggerating to make Vick sound like a monster.

I guess it must sound the same to you when I say Rossi attempted murder in a typical episode of road rage. I'm willing to call it manslaughter. I don't know how else to water it down. I wonder if Vick had trained the dogs to fight, but never actually fought the dogs, could we call that "attempted torture"? Or just dog fight "training". No harm no foul. That seems to be the crux, because Marc wasn't hurt, the attempt to hurt him can be described in benign terms! But the moment he let the dogs lose, or allowed someone to let the dogs lose, then he became a "dog torturer". If you prefer this to be described differently, I suppose I can find some less dramatic words. How about this? Michael Vick was a "dog trainer", the dogs bare the responsibility for their actions, not Vick. If the dogs kill eachother, that's the dogs fault for not letting go. In the same way, we can say, Rossi is a "racer", and just ran Marquez wide in a non-racing move, the crash was Marc's responsibility, if he was struck and killed, well, he should have let go of racing.
 
Last edited:
paparazzo said:
Sir, what is point to make arguments on this forum? You can not argue with schizoids who can not remain objective no matter what. The hate here is very deep, the vitriol so strong but at same time very amusing, I feel it through my monitor. Your anger, 'and those of your ilk', today comes from fact you can not find fault or excuse for this performance. Can't blame tires, electronics, crashes, rain, wind, humidity, engines, the Pope... No excuse, everyone got schooled today by 37 year old guy and watching him cross the line must have been painful to watch.

I know when all the records are broken there will be people here who will be on suicide watch, and I only half joking. It is also funny reading your posts, trying so hard to remain objective but like a scorpion, you can not hide your true nature. I stand by and watch, and laugh when the term 'GOAT' will be indisputable.
Click to expand...
You don't even know what schizoid means, hence my objection to cod psychology.

I make no claims to being objective, just to at least trying to argue rationally without the use of argumentum ad hominem, although I can occasionally fail.

As I said, him winning this week-end in no way contradicts what I have argued against Rossi and his fans, which has never been that he is not a great rider.
 
paparazzo said:
I know when all the records are broken there will be people here who will be on suicide watch, and I only half joking. It is also funny reading your posts, trying so hard to remain objective but like a scorpion, you can not hide your true nature. I stand by and watch, and laugh when the term 'GOAT' will be indisputable.
Click to expand...


And in that regard he has a long way to go if measured on championship terms where he is currently 3rd overall so you may be waiting a few more years yet. :p
 
Jumkie said:
I hear you. I just prefer to describe this incident without mincing words.

I had a buddy take issue with me saying Michael Vick "tortured innocent dogs". He said all Vick did was host and promote "dog fighting" events at his house. He said I was being very dramatic. I argued that dog fighting was torturing these animals because they were trained to inflict harm, pain, and death. He called ........ on me, saying I was just being sensational and exaggerating to make Vick sound like a monster.

I guess it must sound the same to you when I say Rossi attempted murder in a typical episode of road rage. I'm willing to call it manslaughter. I don't know how else to water it down. I wonder if Vick had trained the dogs to fight, but never actually fought the dogs, could we call that "attempted torture"? Or just dog fight "training". No harm no foul. That seems to be the crux, because Marc wasn't hurt, the attempt to hurt him can be described in benign terms! But the moment he let the dogs lose, or allowed someone to let the dogs lose, then he became a "dog torturer". If you prefer this to be described differently, I suppose I can find some less dramatic words. How about this? Michael Vick was a "dog trainer", the dogs bare the responsibility for their actions, not Vick. If the dogs kill eachother, that's the dogs fault for not letting go. In the same way, we can say, Rossi is a "racer", and just ran Marquez wide in a non-racing move, the crash was Marc's responsibility, if he was struck and killed, well, he should have let go of racing.
Click to expand...

Okay. Got it. You equate Rossi to Vick. I can't even get close to that.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

L
For Sale 24 - 26 MAY Gran Premi Monster Energy de Catalunya 2024 - 2 tickets
Replies
0
Views
268
LFG
L
J
For Sale 4 tickets for Entradas del Gran Premio Monster Energy de Catalunya de MotoGP 2018
Replies
0
Views
6K
Juxhi
J
JPSLotus
Round 7: 2017 Gran Premi Monster Energy de Catalunya
13 14 15
Replies
284
Views
38K
danski
danski
M
Le Mans Race 2016: Spoiler
Replies
18
Views
3K
cliche guevara
cliche guevara
Mr Squiggle
Historical Revisionism
2 3
Replies
42
Views
6K
Mr Squiggle
Mr Squiggle

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top