Gracious in defeat - Rossi

michaelm · Dec 8, 2015

bh84 said:
Who said I'm discounting JL's win? I said its pretty clear at Sepang Marquez was playing some games with Rossi at Sepang, I also said Marquez didn't go for any passes on Loranzo at Valencia. I never mentioned PI because I though it was one of the most exciting and entertaining races all year and that Marquez rode a great race. I believe Rossi's ill advised comments made Marc angry and he responded by trying to screw him out of the title. Whether Rossi thought Lorenzo was a part of it or not I believe Marquez certainly hindered his chances.

I've taken riders out before for riding dangerously in front of me and I'd do it again, I've also been on the receiving end on more than one occasion, not for trying to mess with someone, but trying to keep a faster rider behind me during a race, and I respect them for having the balls to do something about it. Rossi tried the old "do you mind ....... off" wave as a warning before he dropped Marc, if Marc had passed him and rode away like he clearly had the speed to do, there would have been no takeout move.

I'm not a fan of Jorge but I respect his skill and smoothness, yes there was the helmet issue, but thats racing, sometimes you're going to have problems. You can say "if" all you want but I don't see any asterisks beside any other titles, if Rossi had won would they put it in the record books as "2015 Champion - Rossi, but only because Jorge had a helmet issue"? no. So it becomes moot. The champ is the champ, its not always the fastest rider, or the guy who wins the most, its whoever makes his good days great and his bad days just okay. This year JL did make his good days great, and if an issue with his helmet was a bad day for him, thats not so bad. Rossi's bad days left him off the podium and put him on the back row at Valencia. JL deserves the title absolutely.

Shaking hands with your opponents after any sporting event will always be a sportsmanlike and gracious gesture in my eyes, no matter how hard you simple minded haters try to twist it.

Did you read the article by Matt Oxley (whom Rossi chose to be his biographer) to which J4rn0 linked? After discussing the 1 line nature of the Valencia track, he said "in 5 of the last 9 dry-weather MotoGP races at Valencia, there wasn't a single overtaking manoeuvre at the front. Not one".

Having dismissed other posters as conspiracy theorists, you are propounding conspiracy theories yourself in regard to the last 2 races, and if you have not in regard to the PI race your boy Valentino whom you are defending certainly did.

MM himself has said he was going to try in the last lap but got caught up with Dani, Dani did not make an easy pass btw; he ran wide and was quickly re-passed. Even if you are calling him a liar, why should MM make a risky last lap pass on a compatriot to win VR a title when he has very likely been warned to be circumspect about such manoeuvres by RD, ironically as a result of VR's machinations.

Rossi needed to beat Lorenzo, not MM, as MM actually said in regard to the PI race. He had a simple option at both PI and Sepang, which was to get ahead and stay ahead of Jorge Lorenzo. If he had not ridden illegally at Sepang he would have had the same option at Valencia, although I saw no evidence over the whole Valencia race weekend that he had the pace to finish any better than 4th in that race in any case,

JPSLotus · Dec 8, 2015

Gaz said:
If you have taken riders out deliberately as this comment infers than you should not be racing (IMO) and one day I do hope that officials 'catch up' and give you the ban that you deserve

Nobody, irrespective of who they think they are should deliberately take another rider out of a race for any reason.

Simple

Jumkie said:
I deliberately took out those guys riding dangerously!

That is all kinds of awesomeness.

Well guys, ...., that explains why blowhard84 is so big into defending Rossi.

I mean, if you decided taking guys out by way of contact because they were supposedly ....... with you on the track was acceptable...wouldn't you defend Rossi to no end?

bh84 · Dec 9, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Well guys, ...., that explains why blowhard84 is so big into defending Rossi.

I mean, if you decided taking guys out by way of contact because they were supposedly ....... with you on the track was acceptable...wouldn't you defend Rossi to no end?

Offroad racing is a different world. its not uncommon to see people get put over a berm for no reason other than leaving the door open, if someone is riding dangerously in front of me on the tracks that we ride its much safer to put them in the weeds than try to hit a 90 foot jump with them. I've been at this for 11 years and won 2 sportsman of the year awards riding the way I do. Tell me, would you rather a. sit behind someone whos all over the track the whole race b. try to hit a jump with them and have them cross jump into you. or c. take them wide in a corner and simultaneously eliminate the threat to you and teach them a lesson.

JPSLotus · Dec 9, 2015

I know a dentist you have got to meet bud.

Jumkie · Dec 9, 2015

bh84 said:
Offroad racing is a different world. its not uncommon to see people get put over a berm for no reason other than leaving the door open, if someone is riding dangerously in front of me on the tracks that we ride its much safer to put them in the weeds than try to hit a 90 foot jump with them. I've been at this for 11 years and won 2 sportsman of the year awards riding the way I do. Tell me, would you rather a. sit behind someone whos all over the track the whole race b. try to hit a jump with them and have them cross jump into you. or c. take them wide in a corner and simultaneously eliminate the threat to you and teach them a lesson.

So if YOU decide someone is riding dangerously, that is enough to take action to run them off the racing surface. So its based on YOUR perception. If I were riding with you, knowing this, I would automatically run you off the road at the first possible moment, because your perception is a ticking time bomb. I'd perceived you as dangerous, from before we took the track, and I'd assume you are out to get me, even before we left the hotel; furthermore, you'd respect me for it because according to your logic, you would then approve of me taking you out, to teach you a lesson! You see, all is required is for me to decide in my mind you are dangerous. Interestingly, that is exactly how Rossi perceived Marquez, from before he left the hotel.

Bh84, do you ride motorcycles? Would you like to do a track day with me? Technically its not racing, but I'd like to "teach you a lesson".

JPSLotus · Dec 9, 2015

Here's what I'd like to know Jums, since offroad can be just as lethal, what happens if the guy you intend to put in the weeds becomes captive to physics, and winds up getting launched off the bike onto his neck, resulting in a fatal injury, does he think its now justifiable homicide?

blowhard84 is a real veritable scumbag who thinks nothing of putting fellow competitors at risk of injury if he feels they are riding "dangerously".

Christ this sounds like the sort of logic a particular 9-times world champion employed this year.

bh84 · Dec 9, 2015

Jumkie said:
So if YOU decide someone is riding dangerously, that is enough to take action to run them off the racing surface. So its based on YOUR perception. If I were riding with you, knowing this, I would automatically run you off the road at the first possible moment, because your perception is a ticking time bomb. I'd perceived you as dangerous, from before we took the track, and I'd assume you are out to get me, even before we left the hotel; furthermore, you'd respect me for it because according to your logic, you would then approve of me taking you out, to teach you a lesson! You see, all is required is for me to decide in my mind you are dangerous. Interestingly, that is exactly how Rossi perceived Marquez, from before he left the hotel.

Bh84, do you ride motorcycles? Would you like to do a track day with me? Technically its not racing, but I'd like to "teach you a lesson".

Holy .... you are one thick skulled prick aren't you? its RACING! Everyone is out to get you, and you're out to get everyone! If someone is cutting across the track, cross jumping or brake checking, they are a danger to themselves and others, there is an etiquette to racing, and the more you violate it, the more likely you are to be taken out. If you were to try o run me off the track with no provocation, you better be damn well ready to be punted in the next corner. Its not an issue of whether its normally a dirty move, you ride dirty against me, I ride dirty against you. If you'd been racing for as long as I have you'd understand.

JPSLotus · Dec 9, 2015

bh84 said:
Holy .... you are one thick skulled prick aren't you? its RACING! Everyone is out to get you, and you're out to get everyone! If someone is cutting across the track, cross jumping or brake checking, they are a danger to themselves and others, there is an etiquette to racing, and the more you violate it, the more likely you are to be taken out. If you were to try o run me off the track with no provocation, you better be damn well ready to be punted in the next corner. Its not an issue of whether its normally a dirty move, you ride dirty against me, I ride dirty against you. If you'd been racing for as long as I have you'd understand.

Actually there are plenty of world champions who never responded in the manner you do to dirty racing. They never deigned to lower themselves to that level because it's not what you do on the track.

You sir, are a gutless scumbag to think it's perfectly acceptable to engage in that kind of behavior in racing.

bh84 · Dec 9, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Actually there are plenty of world champions who never responded in the manner you do to dirty racing. They never deigned to lower themselves to that level because it's not what you do on the track.

You sir, are a gutless scumbag to think it's perfectly acceptable to engage in that kind of behavior in racing.

gutless? You've obviously never been midair and had someone fly in beneath you. Its exponentially more dangerous to both riders than giving them a shot in a corner. You have no idea what you're talking about.

bh84 · Dec 9, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Here's what I'd like to know Jums, since offroad can be just as lethal, what happens if the guy you intend to put in the weeds becomes captive to physics, and winds up getting launched off the bike onto his neck, resulting in a fatal injury, does he think its now justifiable homicide?

blowhard84 is a real veritable scumbag who thinks nothing of putting fellow competitors at risk of injury if he feels they are riding "dangerously".

Christ this sounds like the sort of logic a particular 9-times world champion employed this year.

Theres a huge difference between one rider's recklessness causing near crashes at high speeds and putting someone down in a slow corner. You don't seem to have the mental capacity to comprehend that

Here's an example, Friese almost made K-Dub wipe out by riding dangerously, blocking his lines etc. so, one of the most respected riders in moto puts him on the ground, nobody batted an eye because it was clear Friese was riding dirty. Even Ricky Charmichael, the GOAT, who was in the booth was completely fine with what Windham did

Jumkie · Dec 9, 2015

bh84 said:
Theres a huge difference between one rider's recklessness causing near crashes at high speeds and putting someone down in a slow corner. You don't seem to have the mental capacity to comprehend that

Here's an example, Friese almost made K-Dub wipe out by riding dangerously, blocking his lines etc. so, one of the most respected riders in moto puts him on the ground, nobody batted an eye because it was clear Friese was riding dirty. Even Ricky Charmichael, the GOAT, who was in the booth was completely fine with what Windham did

Bh84, you're full of ..... First of all Friese contributed to that clash by trying to square up too soon, it wasn't Windham deliberately taking him out. Second, the commentators had different takes, no consensus, the first Ralph Shitheen says that move was about the "million bucks on the line". In other words his first impression is that move was motivated by greed. Not that Friese was riding dangerously.

That anybody would think taking out a fellow competitor is ok is full of ...., whether it be Ricky Carmichael or Valentino Rossi. I've heard Carmichael say block passes are acceptable in the past, but MX is infinitely different than GP road racing. The contact routinely made on a dirt surface, into corners compared to MotoGP would never be accepted and you show what little you understand about this sport. No wonder you think Rossi taking Marquez onto the unstable surface was normal. Like I said, let's do a track day on a road course, I'll pay for your admission. Bring your own bike and gear. I've ran AMA sanctioned MX here at Glen Helen. I've also ran the Lake Elsinore course. Im not an expert, I'm like an average weekend warrior; but I've ran both MX and road course, and its worlds apart. We can ride at Willow Springs road course, bring at least a 600cc. Then after you learn the track, on the last session, without letting you know which lap, I'll run you off the course. Then we can meet back in the paddock you can tell me all about how this is similar to MX.

gekko1ro · Dec 9, 2015

aren't the canadians those nice people who sleep with unlocked doors, always smiley and apologies like there`s no tomorrow? bh84, are you really a canadian?

JPSLotus · Dec 9, 2015

gekko1ro said:
aren't the canadians those nice people who sleep with unlocked doors, always smiley and apologies like there`s no tomorrow? bh84, are you really a canadian?

I remember on Monday Night Raw back in 1997 at the height of the Hart Foundation/Canada vs. USA feud, Bret Hart talked about how great Canada was. He said it was a place where they took care of the sick and the old, had health insurance for all, and on and on.

Guess times have changed up there with the way blowhard84 talks.

The niceness has gone, nothing but blood and homicide to be found in the great white north.

bh84 · Dec 9, 2015

Jumkie said:
Bh84, you're full of ..... First of all Friese contributed to that clash by trying to square up too soon, it wasn't Windham deliberately taking him out. Second, the commentators had different takes, no consensus, the first Ralph Shitheen says that move was about the "million bucks on the line". In other words his first impression is that move was motivated by greed. Not that Friese was riding dangerously.

That anybody would think taking out a fellow competitor is ok is full of ...., whether it be Ricky Carmichael or Valentino Rossi. I've heard Carmichael say block passes are acceptable in the past, but MX is infinitely different than GP road racing. The contact routinely made on a dirt surface, into corners compared to MotoGP would never be accepted and you show what little you understand about this sport. No wonder you think Rossi taking Marquez onto the unstable surface was normal. Like I said, let's do a track day on a road course, I'll pay for your admission. Bring your own bike and gear. I've ran AMA sanctioned MX here at Glen Helen. I've also ran the Lake Elsinore course. Im not an expert, I'm like an average weekend warrior; but I've ran both MX and road course, and its worlds apart. We can ride at Willow Springs road course, bring at least a 600cc. Then after you learn the track, on the last session, without letting you know which lap, I'll run you off the course. Then we can meet back in the paddock you can tell me all about how this is similar to MX.

Really? You're calling RC, Windham, Jeremy McGrath, James Stewart and Chad Reed, among others full of ....? All have made retaliatory take out moves in the past. As have I.

As for your little threat about taing me out on a 600, its a completely different situation. There's a difference between taking someone out with no provocation and doing it because they're riding like an ........ The fact that you can't get that through your head is hilarious and shows exactly how little you know about racing in general. Its a different sport, but dangerous riding provokes an equal response in all motorsports. The only reason you have a problem with Rossi putting MM on the ground is your blind hatred for him. Don't bother trying to deny it. Everyone can see its the truth.

bh84 · Dec 9, 2015

JPSLotus said:
I remember on Monday Night Raw back in 1997 at the height of the Hart Foundation/Canada vs. USA feud, Bret Hart talked about how great Canada was. He said it was a place where they took care of the sick and the old, had health insurance for all, and on and on.

Guess times have changed up there with the way blowhard84 talks.

The niceness has gone, nothing but blood and homicide to be found in the great white north.

Canadians will always be kind and courteous, but mess with us and there WILL be hell to pay. Canada has always had a history of kicking ... when push comes to shove. We are dominant in hockey, arguably the roughest sport on earth, when the States invaded us, we burned the white house. In WWI Canadians were known as "storm troops" My great grandfather was one of the men who helped break through at Vimy Ridge, a highly defensible position that the British and French Forces both failed to take, we did it in 3 days.

We've always been hard motherfuckers when we need to be, we're only polite until provoked

JPSLotus · Dec 9, 2015

bh84 said:
Canadians will always be kind and courteous, but mess with us and there WILL be hell to pay. Canada has always had a history of kicking ... when push comes to shove. We are dominant in hockey, arguably the roughest sport on earth, when the States invaded us, we burned the white house. In WWI Canadians were known as "storm troops" My great grandfather was one of the men who helped break through at Vimy Ridge, a highly defensible position that the British and French Forces both failed to take.

We've always been hard motherfuckers when we need to be, we're only polite until provoked

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Canada has plenty of degenerates.

Shall we also discuss the lack of Canadian won Stanley Cups since 1993?

bh84 · Dec 9, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Canada has plenty of degenerates.

Shall we also discuss the lack of Canadian won Stanley Cups since 1993?

Shall we discuss the amount of Canadian players, specifically Canadian Captains on these "american" teams? Or Canada's undefeated 2014 Olympic Men's and Women's hockey teams? How about the 2015 World Junior Hockey Championships? Most all time NHL goals, points, assists? Most Career wins and shutouts by a goalie?

Hockey is Canada's sport.

One riot, compared to how many in the states in the last few years? Battle of Ferguson ringing any bells?

JPSLotus · Dec 9, 2015

I never said anything about the US. That's what we call the straw man.

Anyway, fact still remains you're a scumbag who thinks it is perfectly acceptable to run people off the track if you believe they are riding dangerously.

Judge, jury, and executioner all in one.

How disturbing.

povol · Dec 9, 2015

Why are we comparing MX to GP?

bh84 · Dec 9, 2015

JPSLotus said:
I never said anything about the US. That's what we call the straw man.

Anyway, fact still remains you're a scumbag who thinks it is perfectly acceptable to run people off the track if you believe they are riding dangerously.

Judge, jury, and executioner all in one.

How disturbing.

If you knew anything about racing you'd know that it happens all the time, just because its not a common occurrence in Motogp doesn't mean the same rules don't apply.

Marquez clearly had a faster pace than Rossi, so Rossi couldn't just outrun him, MM clearly didn't care whether Rossi crashed or not, cutting across his nose at speed, running him out to the rumble strips etc. and slowing down to let him go wasn't going to be an option either, as Marc clearly had a vendetta in his head. So, putting him on the ground became the safest option for VR. In his eyes, Marc no longer cared about his safety, so Vale stopped caring about Marc's safety.

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