Gracious in defeat - Rossi

JPSLotus said:

Yes you were whining about me calling Papabozzo on his dumb ....... posts.

My post history isn't even remotely close to what you said. For example, you made it out that I said Rossi sucks. I've stated multiple times that he is a talented rider. The qualifier I added to it though, was that he received a ton of benefits that no other rider was given due to commercial considerations...and we're in a topic about Rossi brainiac.

Imagine, complaining about my posting about Rossi in a topic that was created to try and make him look better than he is...and all I am doing is injecting reality into it.

Sorry that bothers you so much blowhard84, maybe you can talk about the JFK assassination and educate all of us.

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He received tires on several occasions, not a small advantage, but certainly not big enough to discount a 20 year career. Again, I wasn't complaining, or whining, or bitching, I was pointing out your hypocrisy. You call others whiners, but heaven forbid a positive post about Rossi comes along without you jumping all over it. You say other's posts are predictable, yet the majorit of your posts of late have been nothing but biased crap condemning Rossi. I'm not complaining that you post these things, I'm saying those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. But here you are, whining about be calling you out on it.

bh84 said:

He received tires on several occasions, not a small advantage, but certainly not big enough to discount a 20 year career. Again, I wasn't complaining, or whining, or bitching, I was pointing out your hypocrisy. You call others whiners, but heaven forbid a positive post about Rossi comes along without you jumping all over it. You say other's posts are predictable, yet the majorit of your posts of late have been nothing but biased crap condemning Rossi. I'm not complaining that you post these things, I'm saying those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. But here you are, whining about be calling you out on it.

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Still whining like a girl who got felt up at the movies for the first time by her boyfriend blowhard84?

I am well within my rights to call ........ on the video, or even the idea that Rossi is gracious in defeat, since he made no effort to congratulate Jorge Lorenzo after he crossed the line.

Being gracious in defeat consists of more than just waving to the boppers with yellow smoke while internally fuming and plotting how to bring down the value of Lorenzo's title by insinuating it was a Spanish mafia that handed JL the title. Being gracious in defeat also is not supported by OTHER people riding to congratulate you.

What it really consists of, is admitting to the world after the race that Lorenzo was a deserving champion, and that he won the title fair and square. It also would have entailed an apology for the shitstorm that he created and instigated with MM.

It's funny you should even bring up the living in glass houses thing, since Rossi has spent his entire career being the living, breathing, and walking example of someone who lives in a glass house.

Keep trying blowhard84, it's amusing to watch you flail about and grasp at straws.

I'm grasping at straws, really? You post nothing but hyperbole and unproven claims. Yes JL had a great season, but there are many spectators, like me, who saw some very questionable tactics, not by JL, and I'm not saying JL orchestrated it, but MM definitely pulled some ........ to .... with Rossi at Sepang. As someone who hasn't ridden Valencia, I can't say whether Marc could have passed Jorge or not, but he never even made an attempt. Yet passing Dani back was a breeze for him. If you can't admit that's a little fishy you need to re evaluate the way you watch the races.

Your name calling is very creative by the way, bravo to you sir

bh84 said:

He received tires on several occasions, not a small advantage, but certainly not big enough to discount a 20 year career. Again, I wasn't complaining, or whining, or bitching, I was pointing out your hypocrisy. You call others whiners, but heaven forbid a positive post about Rossi comes along without you jumping all over it. You say other's posts are predictable, yet the majorit of your posts of late have been nothing but biased crap condemning Rossi. I'm not complaining that you post these things, I'm saying those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. But here you are, whining about be calling you out on it.

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I wasn't complaining, or whining, or bitching
I wasn't complaining, or whining, or bitching
I wasn't complaining, or whining, or bitching

Jesus, for a guy that doesn't supposedly whine and complain, you sure do ..... a lot.

Ah I see, getting some special spec tires, not that big a deal. If one of those wins (or any points) were gained by an unfair exclusive advantage, then that whole title is ......... How many titles do you think he enjoyed such an advantage? Ok, how about we let Lorenzo use Yamaha electronics next year, and Rossi uses the "standard" ECU. Just one year, one little biddy year. Hey, how about just half a year, the first half. How would the boppers feel about that? Better yet, how would Rossi feel about that? You know, because according to your stellar logic, it wouldn't be a mentionable in the career of Lorenzo if he were to win a bunch of races, say the 2016 title, and the artificial padding of a career if we let him use this advantage, right?

The thread topic was ........ from the start, and if you profess to be such a balanced opinion, you should have called ........ on it. As was said, what is "gracious" about a guy slowing way down and others coming to express their condolences to a guy who needed a bit of consolation, the same type of consolation a child gets for crying. You are all about "facts", yet your 'interpretation' (that what you based it on) was this labeled "lap of honor" (according to Dorna) meant the same as "graciousness"? You went spell Nazi on me in the other thread, what about word 'meaning Nazi'? Because a guy going out on a lap more preoccupied about waving to his fans while not seeking out the race/title winner has jack .... nothing to do with "graciousness" and more to do with self-affirmation. The fact others came to express some kind of sympathy has zero to do with Rossi's graciousness and more to do with the kindness of those who came to offer him condolence. How is this getting lost in a grammar Nazi guy who claims to be such a hard ... hockey fan? Which frankly is another surprise, because you are expressing yourself as a pansy.

Its funny you mention glass house, it used to be my signature. Again, your first exchange was NOT to offer your opinion on the topic, but rather to whine and complain about me mentioning Rossi. Now you want to get all glass house because we are throwing back the rocks? Hahaha, dude. You got to be the first hockey fan I've ever heard of that is such a ...... Then again, you do admire Rossi for his "admirable" attributes.

bh84 said:

I'm grasping at straws, really? You post nothing but hyperbole and unproven claims. Yes JL had a great season, but there are many spectators, like me, who saw some very questionable tactics, not by JL, and I'm not saying JL orchestrated it, but MM definitely pulled some ........ to .... with Rossi at Sepang. As someone who hasn't ridden Valencia, I can't say whether Marc could have passed Jorge or not, but he never even made an attempt. Yet passing Dani back was a breeze for him. If you can't admit that's a little fishy you need to re evaluate the way you watch the races.

Your name calling is very creative by the way, bravo to you sir

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Thanks, if Talps were still here as opposed to swinging from a tree by a hangman's noose in the Alaskan wilderness, I'd have dubbed you, Poppabozzo, and Talps the 3 Stooges. Sadly we can't do this for the aforementioned reason.

Anyhow, onto the rest!

Yes you are grasping at straws.

You "saw some very questionable tactics" only because the Cryer of Tavullia planted the idea in your ....... head. If he never says anything, you do not think anything otherwise, which means my friend, you're gullible to anything that comes out of the mouth of the 7-times world champion. I'd be a little less concerned about what Marc Marquez may or may not have done, and a little more concerned about my susceptibility to what VR says, as well as the dozens of journalists who helped to propagate a lie.

This idea that MM never made an overtake attempt is the sort of stuff you, as well as millions of others have come to believe, with little to no understanding about that circuit rides or how the bikes were setup or even what the game plan of MM was. I am thoroughly amused by this idea that in spite of sitting in your La-Z-Boy™ recliner, in full recline position during the race, you suddenly know more than those actually racing on the circuit. Getting in a protracted battle with Jorge Lorenzo at this circuit in a race he was determined to win would not have been wise at all. MM had front row seats to his battle with Pedrosa in 2013, and would not have forgotten what JL did to ensure he held onto P1. No, the smart move would be to wait till the final laps to try and make a move on JL.

Consider this idea, perhaps Jorge Lorenzo and his engineer, over the course of the weekend determined that his best opportunity to stay in front of the RCV's was to concentrate on ensuring the M1 had the best possible acceleration grip they could get while sacrificing top end speed in favor of getting out of every corner as best as possible. The circuit favors a bike that can get out of corners cleanly because of how many there are, and how much time you spend trying to build a gap based on how you get out of them. In fact, they would have been in a far better position than someone such as yourself, Kesh, or the millions of other fans to know what their BEST chance was of winning the grand prix. Imagine that! They might know more than you who is sitting in his La-Z-Boy™ recliner with a can of Labatt's.

Jumkie said:

I wasn't complaining, or whining, or bitching
I wasn't complaining, or whining, or bitching
I wasn't complaining, or whining, or bitching

Jesus, for a guy that doesn't supposedly whine and complain, you sure do ..... a lot.

Ah I see, getting some special spec tires, not that big a deal. If one of those wins (or any points) were gained by an unfair exclusive advantage, then that whole title is ......... How many titles do you think he enjoyed such an advantage? Ok, how about we let Lorenzo use Yamaha electronics next year, and Rossi uses the "standard" ECU. Just one year, one little biddy year. Hey, how about just half a year, the first half. How would the boppers feel about that? Better yet, how would Rossi feel about that? You know, because according to your stellar logic, it wouldn't be a mentionable in the career of Lorenzo if he were to win a bunch of races, say the 2016 title, and the artificial padding of a career if we let him use this advantage, right?

The thread topic was ........ from the start, and if you profess to be such a balanced opinion, you should have called ........ on it. As was said, what is "gracious" about a guy slowing way down and others coming to express their condolences to a guy who needed a bit of consolation, the same type of consolation a child gets for crying. You are all about "facts", yet your 'interpretation' (that what you based it on) was this labeled "lap of honor" (according to Dorna) meant the same as "graciousness"? You went spell Nazi on me in the other thread, what about word 'meaning Nazi'? Because a guy going out on a lap more preoccupied about waving to his fans while not seeking out the race/title winner has jack .... nothing to do with "graciousness" and more to do with self-affirmation. The fact others came to express some kind of sympathy has zero to do with Rossi's graciousness and more to do with the kindness of those who came to offer him condolence. How is this getting lost in a grammar Nazi guy who claims to be such a hard ... hockey fan? Which frankly is another surprise, because you are expressing yourself as a pansy.

Its funny you mention glass house, it used to be my signature. Again, your first exchange was NOT to offer your opinion on the topic, but rather to whine and complain about me mentioning Rossi. Now you want to get all glass house because we are throwing back the rocks? Hahaha, dude. You got to be the first hockey fan I've ever heard of that is such a ...... Then again, you do admire Rossi for his "admirable" attributes.

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You wanna call me a ..... online thats fine, because I know a keyboard coward like you would never say it to my face and if you did you'd be coughing up your own teeth. Now, quit ....... bitching about Vale and whatever .... his team gives him to win. .... me man, you moan about how its not fair then have the gall to try to call me out? You need to go out and ride until the man in you comes back, then kindly keep riding until you come to a large cliff, at that point, just do the world a big favor and drive off it.

JPSLotus said:

Thanks, if Talps were still here as opposed to swinging from a tree by a hangman's noose in the Alaskan wilderness, I'd have dubbed you, Poppabozzo, and Talps the 3 Stooges. Sadly we can't do this for the aforementioned reason.

Anyhow, onto the rest!

Yes you are grasping at straws.

You "saw some very questionable tactics" only because the Cryer of Tavullia planted the idea in your ....... head. If he never says anything, you do not think anything otherwise, which means my friend, you're gullible to anything that comes out of the mouth of the 7-times world champion. I'd be a little less concerned about what Marc Marquez may or may not have done, and a little more concerned about my susceptibility to what VR says, as well as the dozens of journalists who helped to propagate a lie.

This idea that MM never made an overtake attempt is the sort of stuff you, as well as millions of others have come to believe, with little to no understanding about that circuit rides or how the bikes were setup or even what the game plan of MM was. I am thoroughly amused by this idea that in spite of sitting in your La-Z-Boy™ recliner, in full recline position during the race, you suddenly know more than those actually racing on the circuit. Getting in a protracted battle with Jorge Lorenzo at this circuit in a race he was determined to win would not have been wise at all. MM had front row seats to his battle with Pedrosa in 2013, and would not have forgotten what JL did to ensure he held onto P1. No, the smart move would be to wait till the final laps to try and make a move on JL.

Consider this idea, perhaps Jorge Lorenzo and his engineer, over the course of the weekend determined that his best opportunity to stay in front of the RCV's was to concentrate on ensuring the M1 had the best possible acceleration grip they could get while sacrificing top end speed in favor of getting out of every corner as best as possible. The circuit favors a bike that can get out of corners cleanly because of how many there are, and how much time you spend trying to build a gap based on how you get out of them. In fact, they would have been in a far better position than someone such as yourself, Kesh, or the millions of other fans to know what their BEST chance was of winning the grand prix. Imagine that! They might know more than you who is sitting in his La-Z-Boy™ recliner with a can of Labatt's.

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Show me then genius, show me MM trying to dive in. Go ahead, find the video, I'll wait. Then explain how the kid who was unbeatable the past 2 years suddenly can't make a move around JL, gets caught by DP, and immediately passes him back with perceived ease, but "tried his best" all the same.

The problem with building for exit speed is that if someone else has faster entry speed they can screw with your cornering, if the M1 was such a rocket out of the corners where was MM gaining the ground? 2 places, straights and corner entry. If you're telling me that Marc Marquez, the most aggressive and exciting rider in the sport, with the advantage of entry speed and straightaway speed, couldn't put a pass together, you're lying to yourself.

Maybe from someone who's never raced at a professional level like yourself is just amazed by all the bright colours and speed. It makes sense you can't figure out whats going on there. Like I said to Jumkie, go get back on a motorcycle and ride until you remember what real racing is.

bh84 said:

I'm grasping at straws, really? You post nothing but hyperbole and unproven claims. Yes JL had a great season, but there are many spectators, like me, who saw some very questionable tactics, not by JL, and I'm not saying JL orchestrated it, but MM definitely pulled some ........ to .... with Rossi at Sepang. As someone who hasn't ridden Valencia, I can't say whether Marc could have passed Jorge or not, but he never even made an attempt. Yet passing Dani back was a breeze for him. If you can't admit that's a little fishy you need to re evaluate the way you watch the races.

Your name calling is very creative by the way, bravo to you sir

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Classic doublethink. You complain of others propounding conspiracy theories/ confusing fact with opinion, yet the central tenets of your position involve conspiracy theories/unprovable claims from Rossi.

What is fact is that Rossi made an illegal move at Sepang , to which he has admitted, which took MM out of that race. The exact nature of the contact which caused MM to crash is a side issue , and to debate that rather than MM being taken out in the first place is "clutching at straws".

Rossi of course has had an amazing career which none of his current competitors are likely to match, but his career now includes this incident and his petulant behaviour in regard to all of the last 3 races of this season hardly embellishes that career, and does throw into sharp relief the vilification of several of his previous rivals.

bh84 said:

Show me then genius, show me MM trying to dive in. Go ahead, find the video, I'll wait. Then explain how the kid who was unbeatable the past 2 years suddenly can't make a move around JL, gets caught by DP, and immediately passes him back with perceived ease, but "tried his best" all the same.

.

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Its very simple if just watch the damn race. When Pedrosa passed Marquez, to do so he got into the corner hot and ran wide, allowing Marquez to come back under him. No big secret, no big conspiracy. You are seeing what you have been told to see. Open your ....... eyes and use that mellon for something besides a hat rack. Oh and PS. Marquez was very beatable this year, Hence Lorenzo's 7 wins and Rossi's 4.

JPSLotus said:

This idea that MM never made an overtake attempt is the sort of stuff you, as well as millions of others have come to believe, with little to no understanding about that circuit rides or how the bikes were setup or even what the game plan of MM was.

MM had front row seats to his battle with Pedrosa in 2013, and would not have forgotten what JL did to ensure he held onto P1. No, the smart move would be to wait till the final laps to try and make a move on JL.

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Well, Bh84 doesn't think riding around on a superior tire isn't a big deal or understand how this might effect the record books, so you might not expect him to understand why it 'appears to him' Marquez folded at Valencia. Then again, as you said, many others have made this conclusion, of course none of those were lapping close to the knifes edge just to risk staying on Lorenzo's ..., pressuring him to the limit, waiting for a tiny mistake to pounce, that includes Pedrosa. Nobody was a fast as Lorenzo (as measured by the fastest lap) or as consistent (given the "observable fact" he won the race). There is no reason to doubt Marquez's strategy of making a pass attempt on the last lap. It is logically the best strategy all things considered! It looked like it would happen too until Pedrosa (Mr. Integrity) suddenly found pace in the last lap (oh wait, that is the 'observable fact' used to assign guilt for Marquez at PI. Weird that Pedrosa's integrity is not questioned for suddenly finding pace, while Mar's integrity is questioned for finding pace at PI to pass Lorenzo.) And so, once Pedrosa made his attack on Marquez at Valencia, it immediately turned into a defense of his position (I'm laughing having to state the obvious) rather than his planned attack on Lorenzo. These are the obvious observable facts right? Not quite if your premise is so blinded by Rossi's suggestion that no matter what Marquez did or does, he is the Devil, a thief in the night, sent from the belly of Hell to snatch Rossi's title. Then whatever Marquez does is "obviously a shenanigan and questionable tactics".

You can't fault Bh84 too much though, since even people like Colin Edwards, journalists, experts, and Race Direction, think Marquez's integrity was questionable, after all he was riding like a "...." (when was the last time someone's integrity was so easily rubbished with so little evidence). Of course none of these racers, former racers, journalist, experts, including Race Direction--who are tasked to maintain the integrity of the sport and its safety rose a finger to call Marquez out on his obvious shenanigans and questionable integrity at Phillip Island! Why? Pause to consider that FACT for a moment. Race Direction would know as did Rossi, right? Are they not in the business of scrutinizing the rider's tactics? Surely with their mind reading ability, and the plethora of camera angles, and access to telemetry, they would have sussed out Marquez to be a fraud! Why would it take Rossi to alert Race Direction, and the world of Marc's dubious questionable integrity? Journalist have less of a standard to uphold, surely they could have voiced an OpEd opinion piece on their thoughts about Marc's riding at Philip Island. Race Direction were sure he was a ....... liar at Sepang. A man who was not telling the truth, why would he be telling the truth that he just rode his race at Phillip Island, the dirty rotten liar? Its so weird Race Direction only suspected him of "questionable tactics" AFTER Rossi said so. Jesus, Race Direction is so incompetent, that they need Rossi to tell them their is a mole on the grid.


Bh84, there is this guy named Nicolas Goubert who is the head of Michelin's return for MotoGP. He mentioned that coming back to the series as a 'spec tire' is totally 'different' from their previous experience of suiting tires to specific "riders" and bikes. Think about this for a moment, and consider the what this man alluding to, since you feel its not that big a deal to get specially made tires for racing at the highest level.

bh84 said:

Show me then genius, show me MM trying to dive in. Go ahead, find the video, I'll wait. Then explain how the kid who was unbeatable the past 2 years suddenly can't make a move around JL, gets caught by DP, and immediately passes him back with perceived ease, but "tried his best" all the same.

The problem with building for exit speed is that if someone else has faster entry speed they can screw with your cornering, if the M1 was such a rocket out of the corners where was MM gaining the ground? 2 places, straights and corner entry. If you're telling me that Marc Marquez, the most aggressive and exciting rider in the sport, with the advantage of entry speed and straightaway speed, couldn't put a pass together, you're lying to yourself.

Maybe from someone who's never raced at a professional level like yourself is just amazed by all the bright colours and speed. It makes sense you can't figure out whats going on there. Like I said to Jumkie, go get back on a motorcycle and ride until you remember what real racing is.

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Again, you think there should have been an overtake attempt based on nothing more than the words from the Cryer of Tavullia. Your logic currently is working under the belief that because Valentino Rossi said so, it must be true...which is as dubious as it comes. If VR never says ANYTHING, you are not sitting here trying to argue that MM SHOULD HAVE OVERTAKEN Lorenzo. You along with the others would have been saying instead, "If only he could have gotten close enough to make an overtake attempt, that might have given Rossi a chance to win the title." Instead you are whining and bitching and moaning over something that is patently false, and is a thought that was suggested to you by VR...which is to say it is not an original thought that came out of the back of your brain. It's a bunk idea that has no validity to it.

MM's entire second half was characterized by an absence of kamikaze moves, and all around smarter riding. He blitzed Lorenzo on the last half a lap at Phillip Island as soon as his tires cooled, and won the race because Lorenzo had no chance to get his own offensive onslaught in. Again, getting in any protracted battle with Lorenzo at Phillip Island, or Valencia would have seen his tires heat up and cause him to drop off.

If he had the same approach in the first half, he would have been in position to win the title in Valencia, or possibly be leading the points race in Valencia.

Attempting overtakes that have no chance of sticking might be fine when you're sitting there with your Playstation, but in the real world, not so much.

The RCV had a higher trap speed than the M1, and couldn't close the gap enough to make an overtake heading into turn 1...that should tell you something about how important corner acceleration grip is. A race can be won based on better acceleration grip even if you don't have the outright straight line speed that another machine has. Ducati showed how little the high end speed has meant over the years.

Keep downplaying JL's title victory blowhard84. It's sad to see a guy who is so broken up over is idol's inability to close the deal that he needs to ignore reality to try and sleep better at night.

What I'm saying is is still takes a spectacular rider to win no matter what tires he's on. I've made an entire racing career out of taking stock engines and beating modded ones with them by outriding my opponents. Is it an advantage? Yes. Is it an all defeating advantage? No.

You actually kind of made my point for me, how was Pedrosa able to pass Marquez, or at least throw the bike in on him, on the corner entry, when MM wasn't able to do the same to JL? Obviously there was a faster pace possible, because even at the breakneck speed the top 2 were running at Pedrosa managed to hack .7 seconds off in just one lap, which tells me that if Marquez, being on the same equipment, albeit with a different setup, could also have dropped his time. After all, he is faster than Dani isn't he?

JPSLotus said:

MM's entire second half was characterized by an absence of kamikaze moves, and all around smarter riding. He blitzed Lorenzo on the last half a lap at Phillip Island as soon as his tires cooled, and won the race because Lorenzo had no chance to get his own offensive onslaught in. Again, getting in any protracted battle with Lorenzo at Phillip Island, or Valencia would have seen his tires heat up and cause him to drop off.

If he had the same approach in the first half, he would have been in position to win the title in Valencia, or possibly be leading the points race in Valencia.

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Marquez waited for the last lap to pass Lorenzo at PI. Marc said he was planing the same strategy at Valencia. Isn't it amazing how the same people that believe Marquez was title fixing at Philip Island for winning the race on the last lap are formulating that Marquez was title fixing for being in a position to win the race at Valencia? He wins the race at Philip Island and is accused at helping Lorenzo, he gets in the same position to "help" Lorenzo again by planning an attack for the win, Pedrosa (Mr. Integrity) screws up that strategy (observable fact) and the conclusion is Marquez "helped" Lorenzo by not having the opportunity to "help" Lorenzo by passing him thanks to Pedrosa. Seriously, what kind of convoluted mental twisting must you do to believe such a thing? And I could understand if it were just the Rossi Cult Worshippers, because lets face it, they are certified nuts, but there are serious people with serious credentials who believe this too.


Again, to be clear on the logic:

Marquez "helped" Lorenzo by BEATING him at Philip Island on the LAST lap=Marc is a cheater!
Marquez "helped" Lorenzo by being in a position to BEAT him at Valencia on the LAST lap; but his plan was thwarted by Pedrosa's attack=Marc is a cheater!

Jumkie said:

Marquez waited for the last lap to pass Lorenzo at PI. Marc said he was planing the same strategy at Valencia. Isn't it amazing how the same people that believe Marquez was title fixing at Philip Island for winning the race on the last lap are formulating that Marquez was title fixing for being in a position to win the race at Valencia? He wins the race at Philip Island and is accused at helping Lorenzo, he gets in the same position to "help" Lorenzo again by planning an attack for the win, Pedrosa (Mr. Integrity) screws up that strategy (observable fact) and the conclusion is Marquez "helped" Lorenzo by not having the opportunity to "help" Lorenzo by passing him thanks to Pedrosa. Seriously, what kind of convoluted mental twisting must you do to believe such a thing? And I could understand if it were just the Rossi Cult Worshippers, because lets face it, they are certified nuts, but there are serious people with serious credentials who believe this too.


Again, to be clear on the logic:

Marquez "helped" Lorenzo by BEATING him at Philip Island on the LAST lap=Marc is a cheater!
Marquez "helped" Lorenzo by being in a position to BEAT him at Valencia on the LAST lap; but his plan was thwarted by Pedrosa's attack=Marc is a cheater!

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It's mental gymnastics at it's finest.

There's no evidence anything wrong was done in either race.

However, as soon as VR says something, everyone and their mother suddenly is squawking, "I KNEW SOMETHING WAS GOING ON HERE!"

........, no one would have ever thought anything.

The only thing that would have made the cult happy is if MM and Dani parked their bikes on the side of the track, and then let VR past so he could be in P2 and win the title.

This has turned into another version of 2006 where all the boppers did was denigrate what Nicky Hayden did. Now they are using MM and VR's rants as a way to denigrate Lorenzo's title as being UNWORTHY.

It doesn't matter that the guy won 7 races FLAG TO FLAG in a show of dominance VR had zero chance of matching.

It took two helmet malfunctions to also put VR in the points lead going into Valencia.

The ONLY reason VR even had a chance is because of Lorenzo's HJC helmet.

How everyone forgets at Losail before the foam got into his vision, that Lorenzo was about to run away with that race as Dovizioso was not able to match pace.

VR was bent out of shape in Sepang because he knew it was going to take a massive stroke of good luck to even win the title. The window was pretty much closed at Sepang, and he was well aware of it, which explains why he was raging over Phillip Island. This is a guy who is a control freak, and to be unable to do anything at Phillip Island ate him alive and resulted in the rant at Sepang. He knew he wasn't fast enough, and he knew the circuits favored Lorenzo.

JPSLotus said:

It's mental gymnastics at it's finest.

There's no evidence anything wrong was done in either race.

However, as soon as VR says something, everyone and their mother suddenly is squawking, "I KNEW SOMETHING WAS GOING ON HERE!"

........, no one would have ever thought anything.

The only thing that would have made the cult happy is if MM and Dani parked their bikes on the side of the track, and then let VR past so he could be in P2 and win the title.

This has turned into another version of 2006 where all the boppers did was denigrate what Nicky Hayden did. Now they are using MM and VR's rants as a way to denigrate Lorenzo's title as being UNWORTHY.

It doesn't matter that the guy won 7 races FLAG TO FLAG in a show of dominance VR had zero chance of matching.

It took two helmet malfunctions to also put VR in the points lead going into Valencia.

The ONLY reason VR even had a chance is because of Lorenzo's HJC helmet.

How everyone forgets at Losail before the foam got into his vision, that Lorenzo was about to run away with that race as Dovizioso was not able to match pace.

VR was bent out of shape in Sepang because he knew it was going to take a massive stroke of good luck to even win the title. The window was pretty much closed at Sepang, and he was well aware of it, which explains why he was raging over Phillip Island. This is a guy who is a control freak, and to be unable to do anything at Phillip Island ate him alive and resulted in the rant at Sepang. He knew he wasn't fast enough, and he knew the circuits favored Lorenzo.

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So let me get this straight. Are you a VR fan or not?

Who said I'm discounting JL's win? I said its pretty clear at Sepang Marquez was playing some games with Rossi at Sepang, I also said Marquez didn't go for any passes on Loranzo at Valencia. I never mentioned PI because I though it was one of the most exciting and entertaining races all year and that Marquez rode a great race. I believe Rossi's ill advised comments made Marc angry and he responded by trying to screw him out of the title. Whether Rossi thought Lorenzo was a part of it or not I believe Marquez certainly hindered his chances.

I've taken riders out before for riding dangerously in front of me and I'd do it again, I've also been on the receiving end on more than one occasion, not for trying to mess with someone, but trying to keep a faster rider behind me during a race, and I respect them for having the balls to do something about it. Rossi tried the old "do you mind ....... off" wave as a warning before he dropped Marc, if Marc had passed him and rode away like he clearly had the speed to do, there would have been no takeout move.

I'm not a fan of Jorge but I respect his skill and smoothness, yes there was the helmet issue, but thats racing, sometimes you're going to have problems. You can say "if" all you want but I don't see any asterisks beside any other titles, if Rossi had won would they put it in the record books as "2015 Champion - Rossi, but only because Jorge had a helmet issue"? no. So it becomes moot. The champ is the champ, its not always the fastest rider, or the guy who wins the most, its whoever makes his good days great and his bad days just okay. This year JL did make his good days great, and if an issue with his helmet was a bad day for him, thats not so bad. Rossi's bad days left him off the podium and put him on the back row at Valencia. JL deserves the title absolutely.

Shaking hands with your opponents after any sporting event will always be a sportsmanlike and gracious gesture in my eyes, no matter how hard you simple minded haters try to twist it.

bh84 said:

What I'm saying is is still takes a spectacular rider to win no matter what tires he's on. I've made an entire racing career out of taking stock engines and beating modded ones with them by outriding my opponents. Is it an advantage? Yes. Is it an all defeating advantage? No.

You actually kind of made my point for me, how was Pedrosa able to pass Marquez, or at least throw the bike in on him, on the corner entry, when MM wasn't able to do the same to JL? Obviously there was a faster pace possible, because even at the breakneck speed the top 2 were running at Pedrosa managed to hack .7 seconds off in just one lap, which tells me that if Marquez, being on the same equipment, albeit with a different setup, could also have dropped his time. After all, he is faster than Dani isn't he?

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Hahaha, serious dude, hahaha, this is great entertainment. Thank you Bh84, this is why I waste so much time here. I'm like that lab rat that gets intermitten treat and is so addicted that he keeps scratching at the feeder when for hours and hours nothing comes along. The treat is just sublime.

Dude, I wish I could record myself and post it, you'd hear me laughing. Ok, where to begin here. Hahahaha. Ok ok, I'm done laughing. Look, here is the deal, at this level, half a PSI wrong on a front tire can prove to be the difference between a win and outside of the top 5. That is to say, at this level, tiny increments of advantages or disadvantages are dramatic in terms of performance. Perhaps you have just started watching, and if so, I apologize for being such a .... with you. No, not like Marquez "....", more like a keyboard warrior '....', which I am. Allow me to relay some facts to you, let me tell you why Rossi was so upset in 2007. He blamed a whole bunch of stuff for Casey winning the title, he didn't blame himself, sound familiar. But one thing that Rossi did whine about (I'm sure you can relate, and more importantly, appreciate) was the TIRES! Yes, he blamed his Michelins, which he felt were inferior to the Bridgestones. So there goes your theory of "defeating advantage". Ok, please stop here and review the logic and facts I just presented. Ok, now continue: You said having a slight disadvantage or advantage is no big deal, except Rossi disagrees with you. Surely you are not disagreeing with Rossi, are you? Hahahaha.

Rossi was so upset with his Michelins (you know, those awesome MotoGP tires that surely are not that different to the Bridgestones at the time) that he threatened to QUIT the sport, FACT! Were the Michelins all that bad? No. Of course not, those tires were so good that he was a contender on them all year. THEN what happened in 2008? Lots of riders wanted to switch to Bridgestones, only ONE got to, his name is Valentino Rossi. So all those other riders that were left on Michelins were then at a DISADVANTAGE! Oh but wait, you said that shouldn't be such a big deal right? Except, it was a big enough deal for your hero Rossi to ....., complain, moan, whine and furthermore threaten to quit the sport if he didn't get a "fair" shot to compete for the title. In his view, the Michelins were so inferior at that point that he would rather stay at home then to compete with them. Imagine that! So that means, logically speaking, if you take Rossi at his word, which GOD KNOWS YOU DO, then everybody who stayed holding their dicks in their hand with the Michelins were NOT going to be contenders from the moment the lights went out! So how hard would it be for Rossi then to win a title against other riders who he knew were at a disadvantage?

Now lets talk about the only other contender Rossi had to worry about, a fellow competitor on Bridgestones. (Again, because according to Rossi's logic, if you were on Michelins, you were ...... and there was no use getting out of bed). You still with me genius? You know, those tires that Rossi bitched, moaned, and threatened to leave the sport if he didn't get them. Logic is a mothafucker. Well, it turns out Stoner had them on his Ducati (not the M1, and nobody else was winning on a Ducati, pause to consider that). EXCEPT in 2008, those tires changed quite a bit, FACT. Now you may say, well show me the press release where Bridgestone admits to developing the tires more to Rossi's liking. Sorry, I can't produce that smoking gun, but for god sakes, you know about "observable facts" right? And we observed Rossi suddenly winning easily while Stone, who had dominated 07, was struggling in 2008. Now Casey Stoner knows a thing or two about tires that don't suit him. Since it was him who blew the whistle on ...... race tires when he was at Michelin, confirming the fact that we all knew about the Michelin tier system. Actually, I should call it the Michelin TEAR system, since those who had 2nd tier Michelins always ended in 'tears'. Well, Casey Stoner then requested to use the 2007 spec Bridgestones. Very similar to Marquez requesting the previous year chassis, to mitigate some issue he felt he was experiencing on his 2016 RCV. Marquez ended up riding a hybrid, and it seems to have improved his season, observable fact. We can argue if it was this or electronics, or swing arm, or getting extra cheese on his pizza, god knows. But lets be clear, if a rider feels he wants to try something to mitigate his performance, even if its a placebo effect, that can have a real effect on the track. Well, Casey Stoner's request was DENIED! Now let me back up a bit, Bridgestone were on record saying they didn't want to provide their tires to any more riders. Basically they were saying, No, we don't want to give our tires to Rossi. Sure they made it sound diplomatic, etc. But this is a FACT. Yet, Rossi ended up with these tires. Now lets see if Bridgestone was consistent, as I imagine they got plenty of pressure from Carmelo Clause (Rossi's motorhome mate). Contrast Rossi's experience to Stoner: Hey, I want the Bridgestones, ok son, no problem. Stoner: Hey, I want to use last year's Bridgestones, .... you mothafuckers, get the .... out of here.


As to your other ridickulious point about Pedrosa's performance being a measure and indication of what Marquez was absolutely capable of because they were on the SAME equipment, hahaha. Well, Pedrosa was over 2 seconds off touch with the leaders. Was Mr. Integrity sandbagging perhaps? Wait, they were on the same equipment an all, why couldn't Pedrosa hang around on the back wheel of his teammate Marquez? Why was he 'giving' him so much space only to "hack" away at the gap in the last few lap? Have you stopped to consider why? Do you have a possible explanation?

While you are pondering that genius, if Marquez was willing to ride two plus seconds ahead of his teammate (you know, the guy with the same equipment, btw it was NOT the same, but lets just say it was, since I don't want to confuse you) what possible issues was Marquez willing to ignore, risk, ride around that perhaps Pedrosa was dealing with that kept Dani behind the two leaders with an observable gap? Can you answer this question? It might be the same as your explanation as to why Pedrosa was not in touch with the two leaders. Here is a hint: front tire. Fuel load. Tire management. Race distance set up. (I hope those hints help you).

So wait wait, there is more! You base you premise on Marquez cheating failure to attempt a pass on Lorenzo because as you reason, Pedrosa on the SAME equipment had the pace to do so... (Lets just accept Marc is a ....... liar and he wasn't going to pull a pass on the last lap before Pedrosa screwed up his plan). Lets also shelve the idea that Pedrosa may have set up his bike to have increased pace in the closing stages of a race and perhaps Marquez, not being infallible like the Pope (or Rossi) didn't get his set up just as perfect for the last lap as Pedrosa. Because after all, they are so good at getting their set up just right, that they won all the races this season. And the races they didn't win them perhaps sandbagged). But anyway, lets examine this "logic" about being on the same equipment, and therefore a measure what what the teammate is capable of doing. So lets see, oh yeah, Rossi and Lorenzo are on the SAME equipment. Rossi won the first race of the season. Therefore, why didn't he just go on winning every race the rest of the year? If anything, Rossi being so awesome, why didn't he at very least BEAT his teammate the whole season on the SAME equipment? Because according to your logic, being on the same equipment is a measure of what YOU think the other teammate should be capable of doing. Why didn't Rossi just beat Lorenzo at all the races Lorenzo won?

My reaction to the above.

bh84 said:

I've taken riders out before for riding dangerously in front of me and I'd do it again, I've also been on the receiving end on more than one occasion, not for trying to mess with someone, but trying to keep a faster rider behind me during a race, and I respect them for having the balls to do something about it..

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If you have taken riders out deliberately as this comment infers than you should not be racing (IMO) and one day I do hope that officials 'catch up' and give you the ban that you deserve

Nobody, irrespective of who they think they are should deliberately take another rider out of a race for any reason.

Simple

Gaz said:

If you have taken riders out deliberately as this comment infers than you should not be racing (IMO) and one day I do hope that officials 'catch up' and give you the ban that you deserve

Nobody, irrespective of who they think they are should deliberately take another rider out of a race for any reason.

Simple

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I deliberately took out those guys riding dangerously!





That is all kinds of awesomeness.