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Gossip: Honda RC213V's engine is a 90° L

Kropotkin said:
The idea, I think, is for them to build two bikes: 1. the roadgoing bike that they will race in WSBK. 2. The production racer version they will sell to teams to go racing with. The WSBK machine was originally the escape plan, but I think they see an opportunity to raise their brand profile with it, and make Honda exciting again. With the spec ECU software being called off, they will stick around.



Of course, in 2016, there will be 15 or so of those production RC213Vs in the hands of private teams. So if Dorna then decided to introduce the spec software, the grid will already be filled with decent bikes. Honda can walk, but they won't be missed.



Oh, and Stoner won't race WSBK either, especially if Dorna are running it. He's done on two wheels.
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I know that - just trying to give Goatee, Pete, J4rno a hypertensive moment.



I have heard from a good source that the moment DORNA and expletive go Casey walks back in. Not likely in the time frame but there you have it.



With Honda and Dorna at each other throats (although publicly denying it at present) the rebel series possibility has me intrigued.
 
Kropotkin said:
Honda Europe product development manager confirms V4 Honda for WSBK in 2014



http://cmgonline.com...a-motor-europe/
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Hancock only says that the 2014 CBR1000RR is a major model change, which could be a response to the people who scoffed when they only changed the fairings for 2012. Then the article says they will build the RC213V in very limited quantities, just enough for WSBK homologation. Very limited quantities of 2,000 units?



I'm not saying Honda won't build a V4, but this article isn't terribly persuasive, imo.
 
mylexicon said:
Hancock only says that the 2014 CBR1000RR is a major model change, which could be a response to the people who scoffed when they only changed the fairings for 2012. Then the article says they will build the RC213V in very limited quantities, just enough for WSBK homologation. Very limited quantities of 2,000 units?



I'm not saying Honda won't build a V4, but this article isn't terribly persuasive, imo.
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He did imply it would be fairly closely related to the motogp bike.



We had a whole thread on this, all speculative as you say except for david saying he had seen the current 1000 motogp bike with the covers off and it looked like a 90 degree V4.



My speculation was that given honda's tendency to commit to engineering philosophies it wouldn't be surprising if they went 90 degree V4 for both the homologation special and the motogp bike, given that their famous racing sports bikes were all of the 90 degree V4 configuration, that apparently one of the reasons for going V5 for the 990 bike was the intrinsic balance which meant it didn't require a balance shaft, and that the only narrow angle production V4 they have ever built, the VFR 1200, was specifically engineered not to require a a balance shaft.
 
thanks for the link to the hancock interview, I have a question:

Are they going to use the 2009 motogp engine on a rc213v body? the nose of that body is more like a rc212v. and by the way the interview never mentioned the engines capacity. wil it be like the 2009 800cc engine?
 
safe to say that won't be the case.

there are good theories as to why the duc is only 930cc , but going 800cc is just a huge disadvantage. nothing beats torque and cubic capacity in racing (thats why i thought the step to 1000cc for only 2 years in their current form was a huge mistake. let the factories run 800s against the 1000cc CRTs so that the factories don't have such a big problem with new rules in 2014 and crts are a bit more competitive)
 
cliché guevara said:
safe to say that won't be the case.

there are good theories as to why the duc is only 930cc , but going 800cc is just a huge disadvantage. nothing beats torque and cubic capacity in racing (thats why i thought the step to 1000cc for only 2 years in their current form was a huge mistake. let the factories run 800s against the 1000cc CRTs so that the factories don't have such a big problem with new rules in 2014 and crts are a bit more competitive)
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sounds like a good plan, but I think the 1000cc factory monsters will be missed, beside your plan, a new indipendent serie outside of Dorna's coverage with the 1000cc factory bikes and the satelite teams will be perfect and maybe it will make Stoner reconsider his dumb decision
<
, just kidding!
 
no kidding, i hate him for leaving.casey leaving cliché is the worst heart break of the season.

well , no use debating that since the 1000s were introduced and the rules look more or less fixed
<
 
everybody will miss that guy, with rossi back with his babe, yamaha and honda rivalry was going to get so much fun, I'm angry too!
 
michaelm said:
He did imply it would be fairly closely related to the motogp bike.
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I trust David's sleuthing and the reports of a 90-degree V4 production bike.



I am skeptical about whether or not the new $100,000 V4 production bike will ever see WSBK competition. Ducati built a GP replica that never turned a wheel in WSBK competition. The D16RR was peerless in its segment, and though Ducati easily sold the original 500 unit production run at $72,500, they struggled to sell the 1,500 units they ended up building. Honda would need to produce 2,000 units for WSBK homologation. The RC213V replica sounds like it is more inline with their initiatives to give MotoGP a direct sales connection with the production market. Without changing the WSBK homologation requirements back to 500 units, I doubt this bike will race in WSBK.
 
mylexicon said:
I trust David's sleuthing and the reports of a 90-degree V4 production bike.



I am skeptical about whether or not the new $100,000 V4 production bike will ever see WSBK competition. Ducati built a GP replica that never turned a wheel in WSBK competition. The D16RR was peerless in its segment, and though Ducati easily sold the original 500 unit production run at $72,500, they struggled to sell the 1,500 units they ended up building. Honda would need to produce 2,000 units for WSBK homologation. The RC213V replica sounds like it is more inline with their initiatives to give MotoGP a direct sales connection with the production market. Without changing the WSBK homologation requirements back to 500 units, I doubt this bike will race in WSBK.
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I think it will, a lot of it will depend on the success of MM and Pedro - Honda will want to win something, if not motogp then WSBK.



To be honest I cannot see Pedro and MM putting too much of a fight up against Rossi and Lorenzo next year. Honda then goes to WSBK.
 
TBH Andy if Pedro picks up where he left this season,

I think he's gonna be quite a formidable opponent on track.

I'm not gonna write off a lil bet on him next year,

Providing testing shows what I'm expecting he could win the WC next year.
 
It would be good, simply because I fear it will be a Yamahafest next year with VR and JL. I feel that Dani will get the gong for best supporting actor who started in a lead role again.



I honestly think that if MM finds his feet quickly he will be the Honda star. If MM bins it a few times Dani might have a shot. He does choke a bit (PI for example). Pedro has been on the cusp for a long time and he has the talent if things go his way. He doesn't (IMO) have the talent of making things go his way. Rossi and Lorenzo both have this in spades and I think MM does as well.
 
Andy Roo said:
It would be good, simply because I fear it will be a Yamahafest next year with VR and JL. I feel that Dani will get the gong for best supporting actor who started in a lead role again.



I honestly think that if MM finds his feet quickly he will be the Honda star. If MM bins it a few times Dani might have a shot. He does choke a bit (PI for example). Pedro has been on the cusp for a long time and he has the talent if things go his way. He doesn't (IMO) have the talent of making things go his way. Rossi and Lorenzo both have this in spades and I think MM does as well.
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TBH I think the Honda is the best bike on the grid and will take it to Yamaha,

Regarding MM I'm not so certain he is going to have that good a rookie year,

My thoughts for this are, we've all seen him save the Moto2 bike numerous times on the knee slider pushing it to the limits, sometimes more than once in the same race

I just cannot see him saving a GP bike the same given his size and frame etc,

I think he will have a rookie season much like Lorenzo when he came to Yamaha.

I just hope he doesn't beat himself up as much as Lorenzo did.

Also it's going to be interesting to see if he causes any collateral damage,

And if said damage starts a Simoncelli esk witch hunt.

However come 2014 I'd say he would have every oppertunity to become top o the tree.
 
lil red rocket pilot said:
TBH Andy if Pedro picks up where he left this season,

I think he's gonna be quite a formidable opponent on track.

I'm not gonna write off a lil bet on him next year,

Providing testing shows what I'm expecting he could win the WC next year.
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I agree,pedro was very quick towards the end of this year,easily faster than lorenzo and stoner had to work very hard to beat him,i think he will easily beat rossi and be fighting jorge every race,mm will be the dark horse.
 
lil red rocket pilot said:
TBH I think the Honda is the best bike on the grid and will take it to Yamaha,

Regarding MM I'm not so certain he is going to have that good a rookie year,

My thoughts for this are, we've all seen him save the Moto2 bike numerous times on the knee slider pushing it to the limits, sometimes more than once in the same race

I just cannot see him saving a GP bike the same given his size and frame etc,

I think he will have a rookie season much like Lorenzo when he came to Yamaha.

I just hope he doesn't beat himself up as much as Lorenzo did.

Also it's going to be interesting to see if he causes any collateral damage,

And if said damage starts a Simoncelli esk witch hunt.

However come 2014 I'd say he would have every oppertunity to become top o the tree.
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This. Exactly this.



WC between Pedrosa and Lorenzo.



Bradl, MM and Rossi battling for the last step. Provided MM doesn't do serious damage to himself, by mid season he should be a regular third.
 
bluegreen said:
This. Exactly this.



WC between Pedrosa and Lorenzo.



Bradl, MM and Rossi battling for the last step. Provided MM doesn't do serious damage to himself, by mid season he should be a regular third.
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Agree about marky mark, will need a year before he contends given his wild style. I think kenny roberts was the last to win the championship in his rookie year, which was at a somewhat more mature age. I think marquez will win races though.



Disagree about rossi. He has always had dani's measure when on a yamaha previously, and I think will contend if he has a bike equal to lorenzo's; there are those who might see irony in this possibly not being the case.
 
We know Pedrosa and Lorenzo are fast, and they have the best rides. Rossi is still a bit of an unknown; we will need to see his times at a dry test to know; he is a wily competitor though. Next unknown is Marcy Marc; I reckon fast but inconsistent. Bradl's getting upgrades I'm not to sure about Crutchlows satellite ride, but if Tech 3 remains much the same, Bradl and Cal will be much of a muchness. The best hope for Ducati I believe are the new/old GP riders. Ben's gonna be majorly pissed after this year. We will see him shine, along with Dovi. That mean can be seriously fast. IF, a big IF they can get the Ducati to work they may be able to catch up to the satellites. How much of a joke is Ducati Corse when it's an accomplishment to beat a B team factory effort. If Ducati don't make improvements; ART will surpass them half the time. So based on this and what I know now my prediction for the top ten end of season standings 2013.



Pedrosa

Lorenzo

Rossi

Crutchlow

Marquez

Bradl

Dovisioso

Spies

Hayden

Lannone





Pedders and Lorenzo within 20 points after sharing the top spots in all but a couple of races.

Rossi mostly third scavenging second when opportunity arises.

Crutchlow 3 3rds. Stops crashing.

Bradl 2 3rds consistent finisher.

Marquez a mix of top 3's but loses points to DNF's
 
michaelm said:
Agree about marky mark, will need a year before he contends given his wild style. I think kenny roberts was the last to win the championship in his rookie year, which was at a somewhat more mature age. I think marquez will win races though.



Disagree about rossi. He has always had dani's measure when on a yamaha previously, and I think will contend if he has a bike equal to lorenzo's; there are those who might see irony in this possibly not being the case.
Click to expand...



I guess we'll see about Rossi when he gets some dry track. Pedrosa seems to have had a coming out year and Rossi is a big question mark after his two years at Ducati.
 
michaelm said:
Agree about marky mark, will need a year before he contends given his wild style. I think kenny roberts was the last to win the championship in his rookie year, which was at a somewhat more mature age. I think marquez will win races though.



Disagree about rossi. He has always had dani's measure when on a yamaha previously, and I think will contend if he has a bike equal to lorenzo's; there are those who might see irony in this possibly not being the case.
Click to expand...



Regards Rossi I would agree he has always had the measure of Danni when on the Yamaha previously

But! Then the Yam was the best bike on the grid.

Now it is a totally different scenario as the best bike out there is the Honda IMO.

So even with the same bike as Lorenzo his hands are going to be full with Danni.
 
lil red rocket pilot said:
Regards Rossi I would agree he has always had the measure of Danni when on the Yamaha previously

But! Then the Yam was the best bike on the grid.

Now it is a totally different scenario as the best bike out there is the Honda IMO.

So even with the same bike as Lorenzo his hands are going to be full with Danni.
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In my opinion the honda has mostly always been good enough, dani was obssessed with it being absolutely perfect and only gave his best when completely happy with everything. His attitude may have changed now, and on all evidence the honda was the better bike for the latter half of the 2012 season, but jorge didn't have much incentive to throw his yamaha down the road chasing wins against dani given the points lead he had established in the first half of the season. Unless the ducati years have affected rossi's psyche markedly I expect him to be competitive with jorge given an equal bike as he was as recently as 2 years ago, and if so both will be a threat to dani, who displayed poor judgement under pressure as recently as the 2012 PI race.
 

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