Four races, 3 1/2 different men win...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 11 2008, 04:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm done trying to figure it out.

Has anyone noticed that Stoner was ten seconds off of his 2007 time? In fact, he didn't even replicate his best race lap of 07 during any practice session.

It's obvious to me now that this sport is being engineered with the tires.

The purpose of the secret tire meetings at the end of last year was to establish a de facto control tire. Both Michelin and Bridgestone are being given performance benchmarks to stop the downward spiral of the sport and encourage competition.
this post is just bizarre, im speechless

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 11 2008, 04:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm done trying to figure it out.

Has anyone noticed that Stoner was ten seconds off of his 2007 time? In fact, he didn't even replicate his best race lap of 07 during any practice session.

It's obvious to me now that this sport is being engineered with the tires.

The purpose of the secret tire meetings at the end of last year was to establish a de facto control tire. Both Michelin and Bridgestone are being given performance benchmarks to stop the downward spiral of the sport and encourage competition. Ezy isn't dumb enough to let another small market rider dominate the WC again. Stoner is getting screwed on a level that makes Hayden's defense look fair. Michelin aren't considerably better, B-stone are worse by design.

Rossi was traded to Bridgestone so that both tire manufacturers would have 3 riders from the 3 manufacturers that have produced dry wins in the 4 stroke era. Michelin pitched a fit about splitting the FIAT Yamaha team then tada Tech 3 get factory support and Michelins.

When was the last time 6 riders on 3 teams were split 50/50?

I know people think the idea is absurd, but DORNA have been so intrusive since the change to 4 strokes that all manufacturers involved are used to it and don't even fight DORNA's influence. Ezy realized just 7 months after the new rules began to govern competition that his vision had failed on a scale so massive that it threatened the survival of the sport. He had to do something. The 2 broke tire manufacturers were his serendipitous opportunity to slow things down.

Who will win at LeMans?



That's all you need to know. Isn't the governing body supposed to maintain neutrality? Marketers crack me up.



America is a small market?

I stopped reading your drivel right there.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 11 2008, 04:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Has anyone noticed that Stoner was ten seconds off of his 2007 time? In fact, he didn't even replicate his best race lap of 07 during any practice session.

It's obvious to me now that this sport is being engineered with the tires.

The purpose of the secret tire meetings at the end of last year was to establish a de facto control tire. Both Michelin and Bridgestone are being given performance benchmarks to stop the downward spiral of the sport and encourage competition. Ezy isn't dumb enough to let another small market rider dominate the WC again. Stoner is getting screwed on a level that makes Hayden's defense look fair. Michelin aren't considerably better, B-stone are worse by design.

Lexy, not sure what you'd been smoking when you wrote your diatribe, but I think that you'll also find that Rossi was 8 seconds faster than he was last year and 5 seconds faster than Stoner was last year. Oh, and he's on Bridgestones, so I doubt that they are worse by design.

Michelin are definitely improved on last year - Pedrosa went 15 seconds faster than he did last year and 4 seconds faster than Rossi last year without the Honda upgrading from springs to pneumatics.
Valentino Rossi
2007: 44' 15"927 (2nd)
2008: 44' 08"061 (1st) Difference: -7"9
Casey Stoner
2007: 44' 12"891 (1st)
2008: 44' 23"989 (3rd) Difference: +11"1
Dani Pedrosa
2007: 44' 26"981 (4th)
2008: 44' 11"951 (2nd) Difference: -15"
With Stoner, he's failed to improve his time on last year for the last three races (he did at Qatar, but with much cooler temps), so I guess it may well be a problem with the Ducati setup as a whole, including how it uses the tyres.

If Stoner's getting screwed by Ezy over rubber then I guess Rossi really is a genius to be doing so well on the same tyres.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 11 2008, 04:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who will win at LeMans?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (motogp.com)<div class='quotemain'>
The Doctor is back in business. Next Operation: LeMans
That's all you need to know. Isn't the governing body supposed to maintain neutrality? Marketers crack me up.

That's apparently an advert from Alice (not Dorna - it's just on Dorna's site) who sponsor the Le Mans GP - they are trying to ensure high ticket sales by appealing to the Rossi fans. Remember, they also sponsor the satellite Ducati team, so Alice are not particularly partisan - they just want to make money.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ May 11 2008, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lexy, not sure what you'd been smoking when you wrote your diatribe, but I think that you'll also find that Rossi was 8 seconds faster than he was last year and 5 seconds faster than Stoner was last year. Oh, and he's on Bridgestones, so I doubt that they are worse by design.

Michelin are definitely improved on last year - Pedrosa went 15 seconds faster than he did last year and 4 seconds faster than Rossi last year without the Honda upgrading from springs to pneumatics.
Valentino Rossi

That's apparently an advert from Alice (not Dorna - it's just on Dorna's site) who sponsor the Le Mans GP - they are trying to ensure high ticket sales by appealing to the Rossi fans. Remember, they also sponsor the satellite Ducati team, so Alice are not particularly partisan - they just want to make money.
I don't think there is any conspiracy; I believe ducati have taken a wrong turn with their chassis tuning since qatar, quite possibly at stoner's instigation, and they are also running a development of their 2007 bike against new bikes from hrc and yamaha.

I have always agreed with lex's frequently made earlier point, that last year's bridgestone tyre advantage may have been more apparent than real, with unusually high numbers of hot races, wet races and abrasive newly surfaced tracks which did not suit michelin. Conditions in shanghai were certainly nothing like last year, being both much cooler and windy.

I don't have much trouble believing that dorna and ezy are avid vale fans though; I wouldn't mind if this was due to appreciation of his undoubted greatness, but I think it is precisely for the commercial reasons you suggest. I doubt arm twisting or exorbitant fees were involved in the running of the ad if it is from alice.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ May 11 2008, 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>America is a small market?
I don't necessarily agree there is a conspiracy, but whilst america is not a small market for the manufacturers, it is for motogp TV which is probably what ezy/dorna are mainly interested in.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ May 11 2008, 04:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

America is a small market?

I stopped reading your drivel right there.

Who said anything about America? Nicky was denied a chance to win because Honda built a bad bike. I think Dorna may have spoken to Honda and Yamaha about the change to 800s, that may explain how both missed the mark so badly last year, but there was no conspiracy.

I was talking about Stoner, Doohan, and the small market of Australia. I don't think Ducati got the bike wrong at all, if that were the case they could run the 07 chassis and run away with the rest of the season (perhaps that is still to come).

I legitimately believe that Motogp didn't have a tire manufacturer 8 months ago. Bridgestone had exhausted their budget and they refused to take on new customers, Michelin were not willing to stay and lose. Worse, every single one of the rules changes completely failed to accomplish its objective. The sport was more expensive and more dangerous.

Ezy had to do something, the tire manufacturers were his in. I think Ezy reached out to Eccy and asked how F1 does its control tire. He floated the idea of the MGP control tire to the public but it failed. During the secret meeting he told both tire manufacturers that he was going to impose compound construction benchmarks that would reduce development cost, control bike performance, and even the field.

On an even tire field, riders and machines are everything. Rossi was traded to Bridgestone to split the 6 riders from the 3 teams that have won dry races in the 4 stroke era. Michelin balked at the move and voila! Tech 3 gets factory support and Michelins. Honda kept the satellite teams on the 07 b/c the best satellite Honda team runs B-stones and they didn't want to upset the brokered deal.

That's all. I'm not suggesting some grand conspiracy. I'm not suggesting a small deviant group of officials are running the sport. I'm suggesting that the entire lot of them are collaborating to keep the sport from going into the tank. I believe the race results are also being somewhat manipulated early in the season under the proviso that DORNA will not interfere somewhere around the midway point.

If viewership drops significantly over the coming years, the manufacturers will have no revenue stream to cover all of the money they've blown making the new 800s. Ezy is aware of the situation.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ May 11 2008, 05:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's apparently an advert from Alice (not Dorna - it's just on Dorna's site) who sponsor the Le Mans GP - they are trying to ensure high ticket sales by appealing to the Rossi fans. Remember, they also sponsor the satellite Ducati team, so Alice are not particularly partisan - they just want to make money.

Will you quit being Ezy's rabid lap dog?

I'm sure DORNA never reviewed the add. They probably posted it on their site without ever looking at it.

Give me a break, Yamaka. Even an untrained observer can tell this ad was made by the same people (who work for DORNA) who have been making all the GP ads.

Do you think Alice have a vault of MotoGP footage chilling at the corporate office DORNA made the ad for them you stooge.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ May 12 2008, 02:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't necessarily agree there is a conspiracy, but whilst america is not a small market for the manufacturers, it is for motogp TV which is probably what ezy/dorna are mainly interested in.
its a growing market and thats where the money is in the future. as a business dorna are right to target the usa. i will be very interested to see the interest in indy over the next couple of years. laguna pulls the crowds so i hear.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 12 2008, 06:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who said anything about America? Nicky was denied a chance to win because Honda built a bad bike. I think Dorna may have spoken to Honda and Yamaha about the change to 800s, that may explain how both missed the mark so badly last year, but there was no conspiracy.

I was talking about Stoner, Doohan, and the small market of Australia. I don't think Ducati got the bike wrong at all, if that were the case they could run the 07 chassis and run away with the rest of the season (perhaps that is still to come).

I legitimately believe that Motogp didn't have a tire manufacturer 8 months ago. Bridgestone had exhausted their budget and they refused to take on new customers, Michelin were not willing to stay and lose. Worse, every single one of the rules changes completely failed to accomplish its objective. The sport was more expensive and more dangerous.

Ezy had to do something, the tire manufacturers were his in. I think Ezy reached out to Eccy and asked how F1 does its control tire. He floated the idea of the MGP control tire to the public but it failed. During the secret meeting he told both tire manufacturers that he was going to impose compound construction benchmarks that would reduce development cost, control bike performance, and even the field.

On an even tire field, riders and machines are everything. Rossi was traded to Bridgestone to split the 6 riders from the 3 teams that have won dry races in the 4 stroke era. Michelin balked at the move and voila! Tech 3 gets factory support and Michelins. Honda kept the satellite teams on the 07 b/c the best satellite Honda team runs B-stones and they didn't want to upset the brokered deal.

That's all. I'm not suggesting some grand conspiracy. I'm not suggesting a small deviant group of officials are running the sport. I'm suggesting that the entire lot of them are collaborating to keep the sport from going into the tank. I believe the race results are also being somewhat manipulated early in the season under the proviso that DORNA will not interfere somewhere around the midway point.

If viewership drops significantly over the coming years, the manufacturers will have no revenue stream to cover all of the money they've blown making the new 800s. Ezy is aware of the situation.

Where do pull this crap from? Do you just make this stuff up or do you have some sort of reference? Don't give me any of the "if you open your eyes" or "read between the lines" stuff either cause you make to many deliberate statments in a lot of your posts that could only be said if you had information. You say its not a grand conspiracy but everything that you type suggests otherwise.

Oh wait, I just realized your from Texas, land of all the stupid conspiracy theories and class action lawsuits. That explains it...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (projekZERO @ May 12 2008, 07:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Where do pull this crap from? Do you just make this stuff up or do you have some sort of reference? Don't give me any of the "if you open your eyes" or "read between the lines" stuff either cause you make to many deliberate statments in a lot of your posts that could only be said if you had information. You say its not a grand conspiracy but everything that you type suggests otherwise.

Oh wait, I just realized your from Texas, land of all the stupid conspiracy theories and class action lawsuits. That explains it...
sorry lex but i gota laugh

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (projekZERO @ May 12 2008, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Where do pull this crap from? Do you just make this stuff up or do you have some sort of reference? Don't give me any of the "if you open your eyes" or "read between the lines" stuff either cause you make to many deliberate statments in a lot of your posts that could only be said if you had information. You say its not a grand conspiracy but everything that you type suggests otherwise.

Oh wait, I just realized your from Texas, land of all the stupid conspiracy theories and class action lawsuits. That explains it...

No, the connotative meaning of conspiracy suggests that a group of people are moving the sport in a direction that is apart from the stated rules.

This is grand collaboration. The manufacturers want to know the sport will continue so they have a venue to develop and market. The manufacturers want to spend less money. The riders want parity amongst the machines.

If my suggestions smack of conspiracy it's because you fail to realize the obvious forces compelling the sport. You fail to realize the magnitude of 2-3 days of unscheduled, confidential meetings with all manufacturers, DORNA, the FIM and Rossi. You fail to realize the implication of double the cost and reduced attendance. You fail to realize the risk of running a mega-expensive night GP. This sport is highly leveraged and these people can only compete/spend once the continuity of the sport is ensured. Cost-cutting is job 1. In typical DORNA fashion they aren't after job 1 though, they are after the holy grail--a change that will cut costs and increase attendance. I guess it shows they are knee deep in their own ...., despite what they say in the media.

Everyone knows rules collaboration happens in racing, look at WSBK. Why can't people realize that there are similar forces at work in GP? The difference is, MGP doesn't publish the inner-workings of its meetings as rules. So we have conjecture instead of news reports.

You just posted an article that further corroborates what I'm saying. All B-stone bikes are experiencing loss of grip. Is it more likely that all of them got it wrong and none of them will return to the 2007 chassis, or is it more likely that for reasons unstated B-stone altered their tires and returning to the 2007 chassis is probably useless.

Stoner suggests Rossi is behind it, I suggest it is much larger than that. The tire slections used to be as unique as the riders themselves. Now the tire manufacturers make 1 recommendation for everyone on the grid. In race 1 Stoner ignored the recommendations and won Ducati's only race this season. In race 2 Pedrosa ignored Michelin's recommendations and won Honda's only race. Since then no one has deviated. Since then both Yamaha's have won. Lorenzo at a Michelin track and Rossi at a neutral/B-stone track.

Coincidences?

How long ago would you have been concidered mad if you thought DORNA played favorites and gave money to boost riders from key markets? Do you think the public's acceptance of this completely unnacceptable practice has made them more or less emboldened?

3 and HALF...i just got!

Pedro SUCKS!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 12 2008, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No, the connotative meaning of conspiracy suggests that a group of people are moving the sport in a direction that is apart from the stated rules.

This is grand collaboration. The manufacturers want to know the sport will continue so they have a venue to develop and market. The manufacturers want to spend less money. The riders want parity amongst the machines.

If my suggestions smack of conspiracy it's because you fail to realize the obvious forces compelling the sport. You fail to realize the magnitude of 2-3 days of unscheduled, confidential meetings with all manufacturers, DORNA, the FIM and Rossi. You fail to realize the implication of double the cost and reduced attendance. You fail to realize the risk of running a mega-expensive night GP. This sport is highly leveraged and these people can only compete/spend once the continuity of the sport is ensured. Cost-cutting is job 1. In typical DORNA fashion they aren't after job 1 though, they are after the holy grail--a change that will cut costs and increase attendance. I guess it shows they are knee deep in their own ...., despite what they say in the media.

Everyone knows rules collaboration happens in racing, look at WSBK. Why can't people realize that there are similar forces at work in GP? The difference is, MGP doesn't publish the inner-workings of its meetings as rules. So we have conjecture instead of news reports.

You just posted an article that further corroborates what I'm saying. All B-stone bikes are experiencing loss of grip. Is it more likely that all of them got it wrong and none of them will return to the 2007 chassis, or is it more likely that for reasons unstated B-stone altered their tires and returning to the 2007 chassis is probably useless.

Stoner suggests Rossi is behind it, I suggest it is much larger than that. The tire slections used to be as unique as the riders themselves. Now the tire manufacturers make 1 recommendation for everyone on the grid. In race 1 Stoner ignored the recommendations and won Ducati's only race this season. In race 2 Pedrosa ignored Michelin's recommendations and won Honda's only race. Since then no one has deviated. Since then both Yamaha's have won. Lorenzo at a Michelin track and Rossi at a neutral/B-stone track.

Coincidences?

How long ago would you have been concidered mad if you thought DORNA played favorites and gave money to boost riders from key markets? Do you think the public's acceptance of this completely unnacceptable practice has made them more or less emboldened?

You ARE suggesting there are conspiracies. You feel there are groups who are conspiring against others, which are the fans of the sport. You state they are manipulating the sport and rules. Sound like conspiracy theories to me.

So you don't have proof, your just taking pieces of information and making wild assumptions based on it, that's called bad press.

Hey Lex, I hear the National Inquirer is hiring, maybe you ought to look into it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ May 12 2008, 08:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>3 and HALF...i just got!

Pedro SUCKS!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (projekZERO @ May 12 2008, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You ARE suggesting there are conspiracies. You feel there are groups who are conspiring against others, which are the fans of the sport. You state they are manipulating the sport and rules. Sound like conspiracy theories to me.

So you don't have proof, your just taking pieces of information and making wild assumptions based on it, that's called bad press.

Hey Lex, I hear the National Inquirer is hiring, maybe you ought to look into it.

This isn't government. The fans don't run/own the sport.

Therefore, I'm not connotatively insinuating conspiracy. I'm saying the sport is run significantly different than you believe.

I suppose at worst I might be calling them liars. A far cry from conspirators (in the connotative context).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 12 2008, 10:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> sorry lex but i gota laugh

Don't apologize my profile is lighting up like a Christmas tree.

Wait, that's good right?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (projekZERO @ May 12 2008, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hey Lex, I hear the National Inquirer is hiring, maybe you ought to look into it.

When they have a motogp section, maybe I will

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ May 13 2008, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>3 and HALF...i just got!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ May 12 2008, 08:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>3 and HALF...i just got!

Pedro SUCKS!

It seems Rossi fans aren't the only ones who still haven't got over '06

Back to other possible winners, I've noticed everyone mentioning Vermuelen/Cappa at the wet races, what about Anthony West?

I don't really see anyone winning other than the big 4 (sounds like the premiership )
Hayden at Laguna is a possibility, but unlikely.