Formula 1 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Franco Fangio @ Apr 6 2008, 10:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Because Alonso is a former WC, doesn't necessarily mean he ''deserves'' a Ferrari seat.

Yeah because 1st, 1st, 3rd isnt a good enough record for the red team

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gui22a @ Apr 7 2008, 12:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Alonso is a driver wished in any team. He is still the best, he is the truly champion. Put Alonso in that Ferrari and he had win at least 2 rounds already.
That's just pure speculation.

I also think Fernando is the best F1 driver at the moment, and I think him going to Renault was a good choice. Of course it doesn't look too good at this point, but they will improve I think. And at least now he knows he has the team's support. Something he didn't have at McLaren.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pacman @ Apr 7 2008, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I loved Montoya, he definitely was a character, speaks his mind and one of a few people who wouldn't back down against Schumacher.

Some funny Montoya moments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB3wSd9MCgQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFnnwdlerJM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFUJjm0yXNc...feature=related
True, he wasn't ''scared'' of MS. And he always had some funny comments
I saw the first two links before, yeah he always loved Raikkonen..''Fcking Raikkonen, what a Fcking .....'' was just his way of telling how much he really cared for the Finn

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 7 2008, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah because 1st, 1st, 3rd isnt a good enough record for the red team
Nobody said that..

Ferrari already has a strong line-up. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, but they won last season, and there's no need to change a winning team. If he was that wanted, he might have gotten a better seat somewhere else..??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Franco Fangio @ Apr 6 2008, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nobody said that..

Sorry, was just the you said "he doesn't necessarily deserve a Ferrari seat" despite the fact that he is the best F1 driver of the last 3 years by far. Exactly how good do you think this team, or Kimi are?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 6 2008, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, was just the you said "he doesn't necessarily deserve a Ferrari seat" despite the fact that he is the best F1 driver of the last 3 years by far. Exactly how good do you think this team, or Kimi are?

By far? No way. He is the best driver but there isn't much a difference between the two.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Franco Fangio @ Apr 6 2008, 10:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Kimi got on well with McLaren. They never had arguements, and they always believed Raikkonen could do it (win the title). In the end it's about equipment, and McLaren let him down numerous times when it comes to reliability. But Kimi and McLaren/Ron got on well. So I have no idea what you are referring to..??

Kimi may not have any major fallings out with the team, but the partnership clearly didn't work as both the team and driver did not perform at their best. Having parted company both increased their performance considerably.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 7 2008, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, was just the you said "he doesn't necessarily deserve a Ferrari seat" despite the fact that he is the best F1 driver of the last 3 years by far. Exactly how good do you think this team, or Kimi are?
Ferrari is a great team, just look at their history. Kimi...hmm..well, maybe he ain't no FA, but he is a champ, and I don't think Ferrari needs to have 2 champs in their team at the same time. I don't see the need. FA is the best driver, true, but does that mean Ferrari should hire him now or next year?? I don't think so. I never said or implied he's not good enough for Ferrari, or that Ferrari is above his standards, I only pointed out Ferrari doesn't need him at the moment. Maybe he needs them though?? Because he wants to win titles, and the only 2 teams capable doing so (atm) are Ferrari and McLaren, and since he and McLaren ''broke up'' he would love to go to Ferrari I'm sure.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pacman @ Apr 6 2008, 11:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>By far? No way. He is the best driver but there isn't much a difference between the two.

well two world titles and a 3rd (with 18 wins) is considerably better than one world title, a 2nd and a 5th (with 13 wins)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Franco Fangio @ Apr 6 2008, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ferrari is a great team, just look at their history. Kimi...hmm..well, maybe he ain't no FA, but he is a champ, and I don't think Ferrari needs to have 2 champs in their team at the same time. I don't see the need. FA is the best driver, true, but does that mean Ferrari should hire him now or next year?? I don't think so. I never said or implied he's not good enough for Ferrari, or that Ferrari is above his standards, I only pointed out Ferrari doesn't need him at the moment. Maybe he needs them though?? Because he wants to win titles, and the only 2 teams capable doing so (atm) are Ferrari and McLaren, and since he and McLaren ''broke up'' he would love to go to Ferrari I'm sure.

We must have only had this discussion a week ago. I appreciate the abilities of both Kimi and Ferrari, but don't think they are strong enough to pass off a driver of Fernando's quality because they "don't need him", especially when the result of that is him drivng a competitors car. He may not be significantly superior (if at all) to Kimi but not many would argue that he isn't more qualified than Massa.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pacman @ Apr 7 2008, 12:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>By far? No way. He is the best driver but there isn't much a difference between the two.
I agree, and no I'm not being some mindless cheerleader, I actually try to be objective.
Fernando is better than Kimi imo, and stats point that out too (he won 2 titles, Kimi 1).

Tom, you seem to think FA was the best driver ''by far'' the last 3 seasons. Maybe you should watch the 2005 and 2006 season again, you already seen last season, but have a better look at the 2 other seasons, You will see that he wasn't ''by far'' better than Raikkonen and Schumacher. I know you like stats, and yes the stats show he won in 05 and 06, but ''by far'''definitely doesn't apply on FA when you look at those 3 seasons.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 7 2008, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We must have only had this discussion a week ago. I appreciate the abilities of both Kimi and Ferrari, but don't think they are strong enough to pass off a driver of Fernando's quality because they "don't need him", especially when the result of that is him drivng a competitors car. He may not be significantly superior (if at all) to Kimi but not many would argue that he isn't more qualified than Massa.
So what should Ferrari do then? Sack Massa and hire FA??
Should they do it after this season? Or do you think they should sack Massa right away. Or do you think they should let Kimi go? Or should they sack both drivers and hire FA and someone who wants to play 2nd fiddle to the Spaniard?? Because I actually understand what you are saying..FA is the best, and Ferrari could do a great job with him, but I'm just saying they already have a good line-up atm.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Franco Fangio @ Apr 6 2008, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree, and no I'm not being some mindless cheerleader, I actually try to be objective.
Fernando is better than Kimi imo, and stats point that out too (he won 2 titles, Kimi 1).

Tom, you seem to think FA was the best driver ''by far'' the last 3 seasons. Maybe you should watch the 2005 and 2006 season again, you already seen last season, but have a better look at the 2 other seasons, You will see that he wasn't ''by far'' better than Raikkonen and Schumacher. I know you like stats, and yes the stats show he won in 05 and 06, but ''by far'''definitely doesn't apply on FA when you look at those 3 seasons.

I know he didn't win the seasons by a long way indivdually, but he was the man to beat in each case and although last year and 05 and last year were very close (particularly in refference to Kimi and Fernando), 06 wasn't.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 6 2008, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well two world titles and a 3rd (with 18 wins) is considerably better than one world title, a 2nd and a 5th (with 13 wins)

ha 13 wins, more like 16 wins.

In reality it should be one world title (with 18 wins) to Alonso and three world titles (with atleast 20 wins) to Raikkonen.

It's funny how people give credit to Alonso for winning the world title in a Renault yet Kimi challenged a Ferrari with a poor Mclaren car in 2003, missed out by 2 points and should've won the title. Also they in 2005 when Raikkonen owned Alonso.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 7 2008, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well two world titles and a 3rd (with 18 wins) is considerably better than one world title, a 2nd and a 5th (with 13 wins)
Please..look further than the stats, ok??
I can also say Kimi is better than FA, because he's doing a better job this season. He is leading the WDC and Alonso is lucky if he scores points..that's what this year's facts are..right?? But that obviously doesn't mean Kimi is better, because when you look at the story behind the stats, you will see that Kimi drives a winning able car, and FA doesn't. The story behind the fact is always important. Kimi didnt have a winning able car in 2006, and FA did have a winning able car, thats what explains the difference too. I think you shouldn't just use the stats, but read more into it..and maybe you should watch those season too..?? That could maybe make things more clear. And before Alonso fans will think I'm having a go at theit favourite..that's not it, he's a great driver, and he deserved to win those 2 titles.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Franco Fangio @ Apr 6 2008, 11:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So what should Ferrari do then? Sack Massa and hire FA??
Should they do it after this season? Or do you think they should sack Massa right away. Or do you think they should let Kimi go? Or should they sack both drivers and hire FA and someone who wants to play 2nd fiddle to the Spaniard?? Because I actually understand what you are saying..FA is the best, and Ferrari could do a great job with him, but I'm just saying they already have a good line-up atm.

I don't think massa has been doing anywhere near bad enough to terminate his contract prematurely, but Ferrari would be foolish not to consider Alonso when they have the chance. It's hardly complicated

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 7 2008, 12:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I know he didn't win the seasons by a long way indivdually, but he was the man to beat in each case and although last year and 05 and last year were very close (particularly in refference to Kimi and Fernando), 06 wasn't.
And why do you think that was???? Because Kimi is that bad?? Or because FA is that great..or maybe, just maybe, Kimi had a crappy car, and FA had a winning car?? I'm guessing the last one.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pacman @ Apr 7 2008, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ha 13 wins, more like 16 wins.

In reality it should be one world title (with 18 wins) to Alonso and three world titles (with atleast 20 wins) to Raikkonen.

It's funny how people give credit to Alonso for winning the world title in a Renault yet Kimi challenged a Ferrari with a poor Mclaren car in 2003, missed out by 2 points and should've won the title. Also they in 2005 when Raikkonen owned Alonso.
I like you

Kimi did a great job in 2003, challenging MS in the inferior McLaren!! What a great season that was, eventhough he didn't win, I was really happy still, because that was a very good achievement.
I wont say FA didn't deserve his 05 title, because in the end he was the best, but I do know Kimi lost out because of poor reliability, not because Fernando was that much better than the Finn. But I guess when people only look at the stats, they wont ever see what really happened.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pacman @ Apr 6 2008, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ha 13 wins, more like 16 wins.

In reality it should be one world title (with 18 wins) to Alonso and three world titles (with atleast 20 wins)

It's funny how people give credit to Alonso for winning the world title in a Renault yet Kimi challenged a Ferrari with a poor Mclaren car in 2003, missed out by 2 points and should've won the title. Also they in 2005 when Raikkonen owned Alonso.

Here come the "should ofs" Because those world championhip points the drivers spend all that time trying to achieve are meaningless compared to your discretion, why don't you just pick the world champion each year and screw what actually happens

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Franco Fangio @ Apr 6 2008, 11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Please..look further than the stats, ok??
I can also say Kimi is better than FA, because he's doing a better job this season. He is leading the WDC and Alonso is lucky if he scores points..that's what this year's facts are..right?? But that obviously doesn't mean Kimi is better, because when you look at the story behind the stats, you will see that Kimi drives a winning able car, and FA doesn't. The story behind the fact is always important. Kimi didnt have a winning able car in 2006, and FA did have a winning able car, thats what explains the difference too. I think you shouldn't just use the stats, but read more into it..and maybe you should watch those season too..?? That could maybe make things more clear. And before Alonso fans will think I'm having a go at theit favourite..that's not it, he's a great driver, and he deserved to win those 2 titles.

I know what happened, i know the cars aren't equal, but when are they? You can "read into it" all day long until you reach your favorable conclusions but if you really believed that there would be no need for your chosen driver to ever achieve anything. You could simply decide a driver was the best regardless of results (something that some Kimi fans might have been used to before last year )

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 7 2008, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think massa has been doing anywhere near bad enough to terminate his contract prematurely, but Ferrari would be foolish not to consider Alonso when they have the chance. It's hardly complicated
I AGREEEEE!!
That's what I was saying all along. At the moment it's not an option. Both Kimi and Massa have a contract, so that's why there's no need to get him. If the situation changes, and they do have a seat, they should definitely consider hiring FA. But like I said many times before I dont think it would be the most wise decision to have both Kimi and FA in one team, great for the fans, great for me too (because I would like it), but not necessarily great for the team.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Franco Fangio @ Apr 6 2008, 11:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And why do you think that was???? Because Kimi is that bad?? Or because FA is that great..or maybe, just maybe, Kimi had a crappy car, and FA had a winning car?? I'm guessing the last one.

yea but people drive the cars they drive for a reason. Kimi may have had an unreliable car at times but he has a reputation for being hard on machinary, and his development skills have been questioned too. Furthermore we speak of Alonso's "bad year" in 2007 and that sounds harsh, but it was in reality a disaster because look at the result of it. He isn't fighting for the title this year because he took a risk that didn't work out, and the results will refelct that.