Formula 1 2008

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Orrmate @ Mar 21 2008, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The worry is if it hits something solid, we could have a problem. We all know what happened to Ayrton, and with the way the suspension and wheels are flying everywhere on the RBR's, their suitability to race must be considered. Don't think it'll be a problem at Sepang, but Monaco will be a different issue...
Very true, let's hope nothing bad will happen there (or anywhere else for that matter).
I just saw what happened to DC. That really looked weird
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Ok guys, quali is less than 9 hours away!!
What are your predictions? Who will take pole??

I think Ferrari should be able to qualify both cars in the top 5, I'm not sure what to expect from BMW this weekend. McLaren will most likely take pole (probably Lewis again). They're faster on a single lap, and Ferrari won't try too hard to take pole I think, if they're somewhere in the front, it should be fine too, cause their race pace is good enough to fight for the win.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Franco Fangio @ Mar 21 2008, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What are your predictions? Who will take pole??

Massa
 
Have a feeling Massa might take it too. I certainly don't think Ferrari are lacking on pace, it just seems to be reliability thats the issue. Which should make the race interesting.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 21 2008, 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Massa
Not Button??????
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Massa could do it. I don't think the BMW drivers will be as close as last weekend. So it will be either Ferrari or Mclaren. I'm soooo excited, going to bed soon!!!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Franco Fangio @ Mar 21 2008, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok guys, quali is less than 9 hours away!!
What are your predictions? Who will take pole??

I think Ferrari should be able to qualify both cars in the top 5, I'm not sure what to expect from BMW this weekend. McLaren will most likely take pole (probably Lewis again). They're faster on a single lap, and Ferrari won't try too hard to take pole I think, if they're somewhere in the front, it should be fine too, cause their race pace is good enough to fight for the win.

Ferrari should keep a close eye on BMW, they are quite good in qualifying too and could possibly ruin Ferrari strategy if they qualify ahead of them.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 21 2008, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am a little confused about the point you are trying to make. I was trying to explain that i think something's success should be judged by how well it fulfils its aim(s). Its my opnion that a sport is either a means of competition or an entertainment medium, in both cases F1 (and other motor sport) is surpased by sports like soccer (admitedly less so in the entertainment side). Perhaps you have a different take on the purpose of a sport or a different angle for quantifying its success...............
Not being 20 myself any more, I will not go for the last word thing, so this is it. Basically you keep re-stating that your definition of best is most popular, and cannot be disputed, ie you are right because you are right. You have mentioned 2 other criteria yourself which could be used ie entertainment value and the degree of competition, both of which it could be argued have been much more apparent in motogp than F1 over most of the past decade. Popularity is also going to be affected by artefacts of history such as which sport started first, got TV coverage first etc.

I actually can't argue that popularity is not the aim of F1, since it is necessary for the sport's main aim, which would now seem to be to make as much money as possible for bernie , but I would dispute that being the most popular is the aim of all sports. I think the aim of F1 to start off with was competition, ie a bunch of enthusiasts who liked fast cars set up a race series to see who could build the fastest cars and drive them the best. Chasing popularity alone as your goal particularly by changing rules to contrive results is the path to WWE wrestling, which most agreed in an extensive thread last year was not the way we wished motogp to go, but unfortunately might be the way dorna could possibly go if they were allowed to proceed unchecked. You might argue that like WWE motogp would then no longer be a sport and I would agree with you, but this is actually the point. Fortunately despite their best efforts neither the F1 or latterly the motogp rules makers whomever one thinks they might be have as yet succeeded in completely ruining the sports.

By the way, how many angels do you think can fit on the head of a pin?
 
all ferrari front row! woohoo!

though, i had to be contented with live timing for now as the cable's ....... up...
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Mar 22 2008, 08:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>all ferrari front row! woohoo!

though, i had to be contented with live timing for now as the cable's ....... up...
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Very interesting qualifying. I am even hopeful for weber, but then again he has always been good at qualifying.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 22 2008, 02:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not being 20 myself any more, I will not go for the last word thing, so this is it. Basically you keep re-stating that your definition of best is most popular, and cannot be disputed, ie you are right because you are right. You have mentioned 2 other criteria yourself which could be used ie entertainment value and the degree of competition, both of which it could be argued have been much more apparent in motogp than F1 over most of the past decade. Popularity is also going to be affected by artefacts of history such as which sport started first, got TV coverage first etc.

You have obviously not been reading my posts. I explained the basis of my opinion and asked you for yours, but all you offered was that i am wrong. Like you said competition and entertainment value are two reasonable criterea for judgement, and motor sports fall short on both of these in the general scheme of things. You make a good point about motogp vs. F1 though because i would be interested to know just how many people take part in motorcycle races internationaly compared to car races. Motorcycle racing is less exclusive (cheaper) than car racing and as a result could potentially offer more people the chance to compete. Interesting stuff
 
Good qualifying, congratulation to Massa for his awesome lap (predicted by me). I expect Ferrari to be lighter than Mclaren but not by as far as the times would suggest. I will be interested to see how the FIA deals with the situation with Nick Heidfelt, because both Mclarens should rightfully be peanalised for impeding a competitor. Driving on the racing line in fuel saving mode before the session is finished is nothing short of foolish and dangerous.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 22 2008, 08:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You have obviously not been reading my posts. I explained the basis of my opinion and asked you for yours, but all you offered was that i am wrong. Like you said competition and entertainment value are two reasonable criterea for judgement, and motor sports fall short on both of these in the general scheme of things. You make a good point about motogp vs. F1 though because i would be interested to know just how many people take part in motorcycle races internationaly compared to car races. Motorcycle racing is less exclusive (cheaper) than car racing and as a result could potentially offer more people the chance to compete. Interesting stuff
I probably should apologise, it was quite late in australia when I was posting and I got annoyed because I thought you were being supercilious, but then I was being fairly supercilious myself.

You are probably correct that popularity is the only thing that can be quantified in terms of which sport is "best"' which is probably a good reason not to try to quantify this, as in my opinion popularity is a poor indicator of quality in general; you are of course perfectly entitled to a different opinion. I tend just to follow sports that I enjoy and not rank them in any particular order.

For what it is worth, what I look for in sports, which obviously involves only my personal preferences, is the display of the exceptional by competitors, which in non-technological sports for me includes a variety of physical and mental aspects including pure physical skill in the sport, strength, endurance, mental strength, courage, discipline as well as tactical and strategic ability. In motorsports like you l think the opportunity to be cleverer with technology within the rules should also have some part; single-make formulae or formulae where competitors are excessively artificially equalised don't really interest me. Other factors also come into play, such as the spectacle the sport presents; having watched F1 live at the track as you have I think F1 ranks fairly high on this score. Personal aesthetic preferences also come into it; being a good synchronised swimmer obviously involves considerable skills, just not ones I am particularly interested in seeing displayed.

As far as F1 and motogp are concerned, I am an avid fan of both and which I am most interested in at any given time probably depends on whether I have a particular favourite among the competitors rather than anything more abstract or objective. I do think motogp has generally had a "better" balance between the contribution made by the driver/rider and the technology in recent years, but as has been widely discussed in this forum this may be changing. I also think max and bernie have been on the wrong track rules-wise for quite a number of years, because as we have discussed before I believe the fundamental problem detracting from the racing in F1 is that the current aerodynamics militate against overtaking; changes to tyre, tc, engine etc rules whilst perhaps laudable in themselves only play around the edges of the real problem in my opinion.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 22 2008, 08:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. You are probably correct that popularity is the only thing that can be quantified in terms of which sport is "best"' which is probably a good reason not to try to quantify this, as in my opinion popularity is a poor indicator of quality in general; you are of course perfectly entitled to a different opinion. I tend just to follow sports that I enjoy and not rank them in any particular order.

2. As far as F1 and motogp are concerned, I am an avid fan of both and which I am most interested in at any given time probably depends on whether I have a particular favourite among the competitors rather than anything more abstract or objective. I do think motogp has generally had a "better" balance between the contribution made by the driver/rider and the technology in recent years, but as has been widely discussed in this forum this may be changing.

1. I have to agree, i follow the sports that excite me and they are primarily F1 and motogp. I only started in this direction of conversation because i was bored and i know hypothetical and speculative discussions are fairly endless, so cheers for putting something foreward
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2. Yea i completely agree
 
Pos Driver Team Q1 Q2 Q3 Laps
1. Massa Ferrari 1:35.347 1:34.412 1:35.748 17
2. Raikkonen Ferrari 1:35.645 1:34.188 1:36.230 13
3. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 1:35.227 1:34.759 1:36.613 12
4. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:35.392 1:34.627 1:36.709 18
5. Trulli Toyota 1:35.205 1:34.825 1:36.711 18
6. Kubica BMW Sauber 1:35.794 1:34.811 1:36.727 13
7. Heidfeld BMW Sauber 1:35.729 1:34.648 1:36.753 13
8. Webber Red Bull-Renault 1:35.440 1:34.967 1:37.009 18
9. Alonso Renault 1:35.983 1:35.140 1:38.450 18
10. Glock Toyota 1:35.891 1:35.000 1:39.656 20
11. Button Honda 1:35.847 1:35.208 15
12. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault 1:36.058 1:35.408 12
13. Piquet Renault 1:36.074 1:35.562 12
14. Barrichello Honda 1:36.198 1:35.622 15
15. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:36.111 1:35.648 15
16. Rosberg Williams-Toyota 1:35.843 1:35.670 13
17. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari 1:36.240 9
18. Nakajima Williams-Toyota 1:36.388 9
19. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:36.677 8
20. Sato Super Aguri-Honda 1:37.087 9
21. Sutil Force India-Ferrari 1:37.101 10
22. Davidson Super Aguri-Honda 1:37.481 9
 
McLaren drivers penalised (5 places down) for blocking Heidfeld and Alonso in Q3. Yai!!!!
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Revised grid.

1. Massa Ferrari
2. Raikkonen Ferrari
3. Trulli Toyota
4. Kubica BMW Sauber
5. Heidfeld BMW Sauber
6. Webber Red Bull-Renault
7. Alonso Renault
8. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes
9. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes
10. Glock Toyota
11. Button Honda
12. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault
13. Piquet Renault
14. Barrichello Honda
15. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari
16. Rosberg Williams-Toyota
17. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari
18. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari
19. Sato Super Aguri-Honda
20. Sutil Force India-Ferrari
21. Davidson Super Aguri-Honda
22. Nakajima Williams-Toyota
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Mar 22 2008, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>McLaren drivers penalised (5 places down) for blocking Heidfeld and Alonso in Q3. Yai!!!!
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what exactly happened? i tuned in via live timing, hence, all i can see are numbers (freaking cable company)
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And the award for most embarassing driver of 2008 goes to..............................


.........Mr. Potato head (Ferrari #2)
 

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