F1 : 2013

So it's coming up to d-day for Pirelli and more importantly Mercedes. From what I read of Mercedes defence it seems to hinge on the fact Pirelli asked for the test, so it's not their fault. Yeah, right, we're all going to buy that, NOT!


 


As for Pirelli, they seem to have gone with, we're not a team so we don't have to follow the rules like the teams do. Sure, the FIA are really going to buy that as well, I don't think.


 


The verdict will be out tomorrow and it should be fascinating to see who gets the most blame for this. There's not a chance in hell they can judge them not guilty I'd say, after all, we all know the test happened don't we? So the only thing left to decide is the punishment.

Great to see Cal on the grid of SIlverstone before the race, apparently he sat in Lewis Hamilton's car too, good on him.


 


What a race, I was gutted for poor Vettel, he drove so well and to have the car break on him the way it did was a real shame. It's motor racing of course and these things happen but I did feel for him.


 


As for those tryes, that is so dangerous, four on track major punctures, (Hamilton, Massa, Vergne and Perez) two more entering the pits (Alonso and Gutierrez) and these are supposed to be the new better, safer tyres. Yes Silverstone is a track hard on tyres but we have less than one week to the next race in Germany (Nurburgring) which isn't so hard on tyres and that's a good thing. We don't need another race with that kind of thing going on, someone could easily be killed if they don't sort this out and sooner rather than later.


 


Great recovery drives by Webber, Alonso and Hamilton. Rosberg lucked into the win, another lap or two and Webber would have stolen it from him I reckon. Raikkonen can't be happy, if Lotus had pitted him when they should he could have had a much better result too.

Lyria I don't think Pirelli or the tyres were to blame.


I take it you watched the BBC coverage,


Did you watch right to the end of the program?


The guy with the grey hair, techy bloke Don't know his name.


He went out onto track out to turn 4.


The track side of the kerbs are okay.


However if you go to the inside where it has been concreted  for them cutting the corner the kerbs resembled a bread knife.


This for me is where the problem lies.


They cut too much and the inside of the rear left runs over these jagged kerbs.


I dare say if any of the drivers had seen this before the race it would have been called off for an unsafe track.


I for sure would not race any tin top over kerbs like that.


Far too risky!

See I thought that too, Lil Red, but I think it's only part of the problem. Not all the tyre failures happened due to that kerb, not at all. It won't have helped matters but those tyres should have been able to cope. Derek Warwick saysthe kerbs have been there in that form since 2009 and have never been an issue before. I think it's a Pirelli issue but we'll know for sure after an investigation. Quote from Derek Warwick :


 


"These kerbs have been in since 2009 and we have had thousands and thousands of cars go over these kerbs and they have been absolutely fine," he said.  "We have had them checked by the FIA and they conform fully with the FIA."


 


Oh and the guy you were talking about was Gary Anderson I believe, I didn't watch right to the end but I'm guessing from your description it was him 


 


I read what DC had to say on the race including the tyre issue and it was very interesting.  http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23125116


 


Clearly the drivers don't think it was all down to the kerb either, there is talk of a boycott this coming weekend unless Pirelli find a solution and fast! They reckon they'll have a short term solution by Tuesday and then Jean Todt and Bernie had agreed they can do more tests with whoever they like to fix this issue. That's 21 tyres in 8 races, that is not good!

I'd like to know when the concrete was put down because I have not noticed it before.


I always remember seeing grass when I have previously visited.


And when the last FIA check was.


The reason I say this is because the drivers would not go over grass thus cutting the corner,


And a good turf would grow around and mould to the shape of the inner kerb thus removing the sharpe edges now apparent.


I'ts just my guess.


I have some shots of Scott going through the same corner last year.


I will see if it was there then.

The kerb probably didn't help matters but the tyres are crap. If it was just the kerb there wouldn't be such a fuss about them having to change the tyre for the upcomaing races.


 


Pirelli have announced they're going to use Kevlar belts inside them this weekend in Germany, then they're being allowed to revert to the 2012 spec tyres from Hungary onwards. The FIA have ripped up their own rule book is what I have read, they're even allowing current race drivers to take part in the young driver tests mid season, that is so anti everything they have said before but safety has to come first. This means the tyres are an enormous issue, if they're going to these lenghs.


 


One slightly shaper kerb is not the issue hunni, sorry.

Still super butt hurt about vettel. Someone give that man a proper drive train before we keep unjustly keep calling that red bull the class of the field

Kimi got screwed by his team.  There was no reason he couldn't have pitted during the last safety car for fresh tires. The team's blunder cost him a podium and big handful of points. 


 


Not surprised to see the FIA cave and allow Pirelli to do what they want/need.  You gotta think the company was on the verge of mutiny, and were possibly preparing a zero-stop 'Iron Tire' for the upcoming races.  Screw the teams, they need to do anything necessary to stop the flood of disastrous P.R. 


 


Here's the Killer Curb: 10MB BBC video clip  ->  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/60092457/misc/curb.m4v


It's not ideal, but I can't agree with the Nanny State mentality that "This isn't safe."


Aren't the drivers supposed to walk the course and take note of possible hazards like this?  That's part of being prepared.  Sorry, no sympathy. 

Not only do the drivers walk the circuit to check for hazards, the FIA send out people to check the circuit too. If that kerb was so bad someone should have spotted it before the race.


 


Oh and Cliche, I was gutted for Seb too, that's the 7th time he's been leading a race and had a mechanical failure since 2010 That's the most of anyone in the last 10 years! Kimi has had 5, Alonso and Hamilton only 2 each, and they say Vettel is a lucky driver, not on those stats he's not!

Lyria

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Oh and Cliche, I was gutted for Seb too, that's the 7th time he's been leading a race and had a mechanical failure since 2010 That's the most of anyone in the last 10 years! Kimi has had 5, Alonso and Hamilton only 2 each, and they say Vettel is a lucky driver, not on those stats he's not!

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Mark (kaboom) Webber might have a slightly different view of the situation. 


 


Of course he's seldom leading, but I'm pretty sure his mechanical DNF ratio is significantly higher.

Yeah but as you say Geonerd, Webber hasn't been leading a race at the time, that is what those stats were based on.

Thoroughly enjoyed the race yesterday, but then I would given how Vettel dominated it. Great pass on Hamilton near the start and he was never going to be beaten after that.  Nice to see the Ferrari looking more racey, that should improve the show later in the season too.


 


What I don't like is his new blonde hair, big mistake there Seb, huge!!


 


Felt bad for Kimi when his brakes failed, though we all saw that one coming, those black clouds of brake dust were something of a dead give away weren't they? Also felt bad for Di Resta getting ploughed into the way he was by Maldonado. I think the penalty on Maldonado was a little unfair though, I can't see he did anything that wrong either, it was just a racing incident if you ask me but there you go.


 


Spa was good, Monza is also a high downforce circuit so I'm hoping for another good race for my boy

mario27

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17 sec behind vettel, Ferrari isn't looking more racey.

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Alonso started 9th after a bad quali, trust me, that Ferrari is faster than it was, you'll see!!!

credit must be given to Alonso, the Ferrari is not in the same tier as the Red Bull or the Mercedes.  

Lyria

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Thoroughly enjoyed the race yesterday, but then I would given how Vettel dominated it. Great pass on Hamilton near the start and he was never going to be beaten after that.  Nice to see the Ferrari looking more racey, that should improve the show later in the season too.


 


What I don't like is his new blonde hair, big mistake there Seb, huge!!


 


Felt bad for Kimi when his brakes failed, though we all saw that one coming, those black clouds of brake dust were something of a dead give away weren't they? Also felt bad for Di Resta getting ploughed into the way he was by Maldonado. I think the penalty on Maldonado was a little unfair though, I can't see he did anything that wrong either, it was just a racing incident if you ask me but there you go.


 


Spa was good, Monza is also a high downforce circuit so I'm hoping for another good race for my boy

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Really?  I thought it was an example of everything that is wrong with F1.


 


The DRS overtaking thing is an embarrassment, even more so at a track like this where drivers can pass each other but chose not to so they can wait for the easy move.


 


The penalty for Perez was pretty harsh and highlights the never ending inconsistency in the application of the rules and the problems that come with trying to over regulate driving.


 


The penalty for Maldonado was a total waste of time because he wasn't anywhere near a good result so he basically got away with taking DiResta out of the race and ripping his car to pieces for no good reason at all.


 


Things like this mixed with shambolic philosophy on tyres, a paddock full of drivers who all read from an identical script for each interview instead of being allowed a personality and a championship battle which is the least interesting it's been in years means I am as out of love with F1 as I can ever recall being.


 


I'm still watching but I'm not impressed right now.

Tom

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Really?  I thought it was an example of everything that is wrong with F1.


 


The DRS overtaking thing is an embarrassment, even more so at a track like this where drivers can pass each other but chose not to so they can wait for the easy move.


 


The penalty for Perez was pretty harsh and highlights the never ending inconsistency in the application of the rules and the problems that come with trying to over regulate driving.


 


The penalty for Maldonado was a total waste of time because he wasn't anywhere near a good result so he basically got away with taking DiResta out of the race and ripping his car to pieces for no good reason at all.


 


Things like this mixed with shambolic philosophy on tyres, a paddock full of drivers who all read from an identical script for each interview instead of being allowed a personality and a championship battle which is the least interesting it's been in years means I am as out of love with F1 as I can ever recall being.


 


I'm still watching but I'm not impressed right now.

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Tom I know how you feel, I was where you are this time last year, in fact I was so fed up with F1 I vowed to stop watching it and watch motogp instead. Now that was a huge deal for me after the amount of time I've been watching F1, and I lasted just four races before I had to go back to watching it this season, so now i'm watching both kinds of racing. If you note, I joined this forum on 3rd September so a similar point in the season to where we are now.


 


I seriously dislike the DRS, I HATE the tyres and the way they can't race on them, it's all about protecting tyres instead of genuine racing isn't it? That to me is very wrong.


 


The penalty on Perez happened because he's been playing the bully boy several times this season and made himself known to the stewards as such, hence if there's contact or so on when he passes anyone he's going to pay for it now. Pretty much how if Grosjean touches anyone it's automatically his fault after all the crashes he was involved in last year. I agree, it's wrong and that these penalties need to be applied more even handedly.


 


Maldonado (from what I recall of it) didn't do anything that wrong, he was in the middle of other people making passes and somehow got tangled up in it, Di Resta lost out as a result, Maldonado just didn't turn into the corner for whatever reason, I can't say what was on his mind when he didn't though, the team said he wasn't coming into the pits, though it did appear that might be his intention maybe.


 


As a Vettel fan I enjoyed the race because he dominated after his pass on Hamilton near the start and he won it of course. Plus Spa is always my favourite track of the year as well which always helps.

For what it's worth. The race at Spa is a good advertisement as to why the tyres are actually a good thing this year. Most teams at the weekend managed on only one stop, and we got an incredibly boring procession of 2011 proportions. Pirelli were given the task of making tyres that would fall apart after a few laps necessitating more stops. They suceeded in the task they were set. They are more than capable of making tyres that would last several races if need be, but that wasn't the brief. Aside from the kevlar belt, I can't find an issue with the tyres.


 


Now my story is similar to Lyria, I found my way over to MotoGP due to getting frustrated with the predictable races in F1. And while this season is now shaping up to be a bit of a snooze, we have had some good races and it would be a lot worse if the tyres were more reliable. It's not ideal, and I think they should look at other options (budget caps, bringing back fuel stops) to make races more competitive, but it seems the FIA wanted degrading tyres, and that's exactly what they got.


 


Now I still haven't forgiven Perez for Monaco, so I admit I'm biased, but then again, he pushed Grosjean completely off the track. He can't do that. He knows he can't do that and should take a penalty. Of the 3 big crashers (Perez, Grosjean, Maldonado) it seems only Grosjean knows when he's ...... up, the other 2 seem to geniunely believe they should be allowed to drive like .......... Maldonado has cleaned up his act a little this season. For what it's worth, I think he was genuinely intending to go into the pits and Gutierez blocked him and so he hit poor Paul who was minding his own business, but Perez seems to have the habit of always blaming the other driver. This needs to be slapped out of him. And seeing as Kimi won't do it, the stewards need to.


 


On the flipside, I do think the stewards can be very heavy handed. For example, I thought Grosjean's overtake on Massa at Hungary was the best move of the race. Even Massa thought it was fair, but the stewards steamrolled it. After seeing Marquez mug Rossi at Laguna Seca by driving off the track, my decision to follow MotoGP (semi) seriously was made. Both were ballsy, entertaining moves that improved the race, however, only one was allowed to stand.


 


I'm not about to give up on F1, but I did feel myself fall a little more out of love with it this weekend.

14X I agree with a lot of what you say about F1, it's not the FIA who wanted the degrading tyres it was the poison dwarf (Bernie). He also wanted artificial sprinklers to wet the tracks up from time to time, I'm glad he got talked down from that one.


 


Perez was too aggressive in Monaco, Kimi was the only driver who stood his ground, the others decided they had too much to lose and gave way to him, I was pleased Kimi didn't do that, even though it cost him more than it did Perez.  You can't drive like that and get away with it, or at least you shouldn't be allowed to.  Maldonado has cleaned up his act to a degree and Grosjean has been a lot less aggressive at the starts thereby causing less crashes, it was getting stupid for a while there last year.


 


Try not watching F1, I did and I soon realised I am not done with it yet, I bet you'd feel the same too. All I did was tie myself in to another series to watch now I watch the bikes too. Though that will disappear on me at the end of this season, thanks for nothing BT!