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Ezpeleta Rossi Will Ride Competitive bike 2013

Gaz said:
But Rog, is it any different to the current discussion regarding Bautista?



People are saying 'well, if Bautista is penalised for that indescretion that why wast he discretion of <insert another rider> not punished>'?



Fact (or is it opinion) remains that Stoner is often pilloried for somments and or actions that have also been done similarly by other riders (some before him, some since), and yet nobody labels the other riders as they do Stoner (and before you type the usual 'but Rossi' response, the same applies equally that way as well).



The simplification is that what we claim as fair for rider A, should also be fair for rider B etc amd that debate is all about point and counterpoint, which often can mean the highlighting of similar acts by one party, for which a second party is not treated equally.
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Yes , barbera is being widely pilloried at the moment for doing exactly what stoner was pilloried for objecting to.



I am glad stoner has stopped doing it though; he doesn't seem to have had much in the way of practice/qualifying incidents since the de puniet incident, having either taken the stewards' admonishment on board or having made his point.
 
michaelm said:
I am glad stoner has stopped doing it though; he doesn't seem to have had much in the way of practice/qualifying incidents since the de puniet incident, having either taken the steward's admonishment on board or having made his point.
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Totally agree Michael that it is indeed refreshing that this year thus far Stoner has not been involved in any of the 'bleatings' that have occurred from the riders regarding the behaviours of others in practice (and yes, there have been many mutterings and downright complaints).



As for the reason, I will differ as while Stoner made light of being fined last year (who can forget the 'at least they finally did something' comment), I put the change down to his home life with the new baby providing a settling influence/. Basically, as I typed elsewhere, the Casey Stoner we have so far seen in 2012 seems the most relaxed Casey Stoner we have ever seen within the racing paddock and it is actually quite refreshing as whilst I will defend him, I also can see at times why he is on the receiving end (only at times though)
 
Is it too cynical an opinion, that this is what happens when the larger part of the entity is the business/money making side of things ?
 
Gaz said:
But Rog, is it any different to the current discussion regarding Bautista?



People are saying 'well, if Bautista is penalised for that indescretion that why was the indiscretion of <insert another rider> not punished>'?



Fact (or is it opinion) remains that Stoner is often pilloried for somments and or actions that have also been done similarly by other riders (some before him, some since), and yet nobody labels the other riders as they do Stoner (and before you type the usual 'but Rossi' response, the same applies equally that way as well).



The simplification is that what we claim as fair for rider A, should also be fair for rider B etc amd that debate is all about point and counterpoint, which often can mean the highlighting of similar acts by one party, for which a second party is not treated equally.
Click to expand...

When discussing rule consistency it is fine and right to compare with similar offences within the same era. Comparing Bautisa's crash to rossi taking out stoner is worthy of debate.

Comparing Stoner punching Randy to Rossi running Gibbers wide at Jerez 05 is not imo. Comparing Stoner kicking out at checa to what sofogalu did the other night is also comparable when talking about the inconsistent punishments between riders and race series.



What we get on powerslide is a ... for tat. It's a case of you criticized Stoner so i will criticize Rossi. Nothing more than mud slinging. This was not the case back in 06 when there was some rivalry and banter between Rossi and Hayden fans. This is unique to aussie stoner fans with the exception of a couple of yank hillbillys, probably due to lack of sophistication.
 
chopperman said:
When discussing rule consistency it is fine and right to compare with similar offences within the same era. Comparing Bautisa's crash to rossi taking out stoner is worthy of debate.
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Actually disagree, different circumstances within the race and track conditions played a large part in the Rossi incident (IMO) but agree that both were rider fark ups.





chopperman said:
Comparing Stoner punching Randy to Rossi running Gibbers wide at Jerez 05 is not imo. Comparing Stoner kicking out at checa to what sofogalu did the other night is also comparable when talking about the inconsistent punishments between riders and race series.
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Personally I don't see either of your comparisons as equal (I do however see Stoner v RdP as comparable to Luthi v Marquez that was little discussed across forumland)



IMO, the Sofaglu incident does not have a comparable on track situation within recent MotoGP/WSBK history and to even acquaint it with the Stoner kicking out at Checa incident you mention is a long bow (Stoner v Rdp and Stoner v Checa are similar IMO)



The nearest I can come up with to the Sofaglu incident would be Aaron Yates in the US when he drop kicked a rider who he felt had taken him out of the race (apologies as I cannot recall the second rider involved)





chopperman said:
What we get on powerslide is a ... for tat. It's a case of you criticized Stoner so i will criticize Rossi. Nothing more than mud slinging. This was not the case back in 06 when there was some rivalry and banter between Rossi and Hayden fans. This is unique to aussie stoner fans with the exception of a couple of yank hillbillys, probably due to lack of sophistication.
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No criticisms are one way Rog and to say that it is unique to Aussie Race Fans is a total misnomer and a sidebar to the reality of the situation as it is a pure two way street with the often unfounded criticisms of riders.



Whilst it is very true to say that there is the '... for tat' element to a lot of postings , these are from all sides of the Stoner v Rossi debate, not at all one-sided as one would allude (a good example and no criticism to either poster here would be the well thought and put comments of Jumkie v Talpa in their respective responses to the Rossi v Stoner comments elsewhere).



It is however fair in any debate to mention an indescretion or comment that has gone unquestioned in one instance, yet has been questioned or criticised in another similar case and it is here where I will take issue (and have numerous times) and I will find myself questioning a bias (and likely displaying one of my own)
 
Gaz said:
Actually disagree, different circumstances within the race and track conditions played a large part in the Rossi incident (IMO) but agree that both were rider fark ups.









Personally I don't see either of your comparisons as equal (I do however see Stoner v RdP as comparable to Luthi v Marquez that was little discussed across forumland)



IMO, the Sofaglu incident does not have a comparable on track situation within recent MotoGP/WSBK history and to even acquaint it with the Stoner kicking out at Checa incident you mention is a long bow (Stoner v Rdp and Stoner v Checa are similar IMO)



The nearest I can come up with to the Sofaglu incident would be Aaron Yates in the US when he drop kicked a rider who he felt had taken him out of the race (apologies as I cannot recall the second rider involved)









No criticisms are one way Rog and to say that it is unique to Aussie Race Fans is a total misnomer and a sidebar to the reality of the situation as it is a pure two way street with the often unfounded criticisms of riders.



Whilst it is very true to say that there is the '... for tat' element to a lot of postings , these are from all sides of the Stoner v Rossi debate, not at all one-sided as one would allude (a good example and no criticism to either poster here would be the well thought and put comments of Jumkie v Talpa in their respective responses to the Rossi v Stoner comments elsewhere).



It is however fair in any debate to mention an indescretion or comment that has gone unquestioned in one instance, yet has been questioned or criticised in another similar case and it is here where I will take issue (and have numerous times) and I will find myself questioning a bias (and likely displaying one of my own)
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If you take the point in my post rather than dwell on the examples you we see we are agreeing.
 
chopperman said:
If you take the point in my post rather than dwell on the examples you we see we are agreeing.
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But I don't want to as I am an obstinate little fat prick who enjoys being argumentative
<




I did realise it but was trying to get a little further debate going (specifically with regards to the penalty and incident discussion) - I just forgot the smileys, sorry
 
Gaz said:
But I don't want to as I am an obstinate little fat prick who enjoys being argumentative
<




I did realise it but was trying to get a little further debate going (specifically with regards to the penalty and incident discussion) - I just forgot the smileys, sorry
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Your not obstinate mate, it was just the aussie lack of sophistication showing
<
 
chopperman said:
What we get on powerslide is a ... for tat. It's a case of you criticized Stoner so i will criticize Rossi. Nothing more than mud slinging. This was not the case back in 06 when there was some rivalry and banter between Rossi and Hayden fans.This is unique to aussie stoner fans with the exception of a couple of yank hillbillys, probably due to lack of sophistication.
Click to expand...



What, too good for the commoners are ya. Get a Royce rather than a Rex if you want to stick your nose up. I like Cal because he's a common, real not fake unsophisticated man. Personally I think we are all a bunch of rev heads bickering bout nothin important.
 
birdman said:
What, too good for the commoners are ya. Get a Royce rather than a Rex if you want to stick your nose up. I like Cal because he's a common, real not fake unsophisticated man. Personally I think we are all a bunch of rev heads bickering bout nothin important.
Click to expand...





Quit trying to rev everyone up will ya
<
 
chopperman said:
When discussing rule consistency it is fine and right to compare with similar offences within the same era. Comparing Bautisa's crash to rossi taking out stoner is worthy of debate.

Comparing Stoner punching Randy to Rossi running Gibbers wide at Jerez 05 is not imo. Comparing Stoner kicking out at checa to what sofogalu did the other night is also comparable when talking about the inconsistent punishments between riders and race series.



What we get on powerslide is a ... for tat. It's a case of you criticized Stoner so i will criticize Rossi. Nothing more than mud slinging. This was not the case back in 06 when there was some rivalry and banter between Rossi and Hayden fans. This is unique to aussie stoner fans with the exception of a couple of yank hillbillys, probably due to lack of sophistication.
Click to expand...



Righty-oh old chap. I just know you were sitting back in your Chesterfield leather chair, wearing a silk smoking jacket, a monocle and one of those souvenir hats from the afghan wars, whilst sipping a nice dry sherry and smoking a nice briarwood pipe with a first edition of EE Cumings on your lap when you typed that teddibly erudite statement.
<
 
Keshav said:
Righty-oh old chap. I just know you were sitting back in your Chesterfield leather chair, wearing a silk smoking jacket, a monocle and one of those souvenir hats from the afghan wars, whilst sipping a nice dry sherry and smoking a nice briarwood pipe with a first edition of EE Cumings on your lap when you typed that teddibly erudite statement.
<
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We tend to move with the times and are very modern in europe. Some of you lot are straight out the 50's.
 
....not everyone in Aus waves a Stoner flag.....
<




For his riding, yes. Not because the laws of parochialisim deem that all he does must be true and righteous.



<
 

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