Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
digger
Purchase price is a bit of a moot point sadly, as Honda haven't made RS125s since the mid-2000s. But maintenance will be a massive difference.
Something like the RMU bikes seem the way to go. Proper chassis. Upgradable 50s to 80s and undertuned 125s (as well as full tune 125s)...but MA weren't happy with them...unlike Metrakit, whom they supported all the way to their disappearance.
Purchase price is a bit of a moot point sadly, as Honda haven't made RS125s since the mid-2000s. But maintenance will be a massive difference.
Something like the RMU bikes seem the way to go. Proper chassis. Upgradable 50s to 80s and undertuned 125s (as well as full tune 125s)...but MA weren't happy with them...unlike Metrakit, whom they supported all the way to their disappearance.
sli-woody
Stoner started his career in Australia. He did the British and Spanish championships the same year (2000 and 2001). He started his GP career racing for LCR (out of Monaco?).
Stoner started his career in Australia. He did the British and Spanish championships the same year (2000 and 2001). He started his GP career racing for LCR (out of Monaco?).
Interesting snippet in an interview with Poncheral: http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/191207/1/motogp_le_mans_tech_3_boss_responds_to_crutchlow_rumours.html
So, guess who made his bed and is now having to lie in it?
So, guess who made his bed and is now having to lie in it?
I would suggest good on him. He is backing himself. He is not prepared to settle. He wants to be a Factory Rider. He is going out there every race weekend riding his arse off and beating every other satellite rider and several factory riders which should give him the best shot available of achieving his goal.
This is what a non Spanish rider has to do. Even then their chance of getting the factory ride is almost non existent. But hey, lets blame Crutchlow for only signing a one year deal. Maybe Eze will do a deal or change some rules to force a Factory Team to take him on like he did for Rossi and Marquez? Yeah right!
Who's 'blaming' anyone?
There has been a lot of gnashing of teeth over how unfair it is that Yamaha are looking to replace Crutchlow with Espargaro. My post was an attempt to balance that with some hereto unreported facts - that Crutchlow himself settled on a one-year contract.
I suspect this has as much to do with Yamaha's new-found hard-ball negotiating attitude as much as their perception that Pol is better than Cal. They could have courted Cal for an extension, but he has made his wishes clear - he wants a factory ride and isn't fussy about who he rides for.
When Rossi famously drew a line in the sand and said 'him or me', Yamaha broke with decades of history and backed the young gun that had shown nothing but loyalty and dedication.
When Cal clearly stated he wanted to go to Ducati, I don't know if he realised how much of an affront that was to Yamaha. Not only did he put his contract out there for the highest factory bidder, but he bitched and moaned all year about the state of his bike and the lack of support from Yamaha.
As Dovi found out to his cost, you don't .... with the Japanese. They respect loyalty, they don't do well in the face of outspoken criticism.
Dovi will never ever ride another HRC bike, unless he is paying for it himself. I suspect Cal has similarly shot himself in the foot with his mouth and his lack of loyalty.
There has been a lot of gnashing of teeth over how unfair it is that Yamaha are looking to replace Crutchlow with Espargaro. My post was an attempt to balance that with some hereto unreported facts - that Crutchlow himself settled on a one-year contract.
I suspect this has as much to do with Yamaha's new-found hard-ball negotiating attitude as much as their perception that Pol is better than Cal. They could have courted Cal for an extension, but he has made his wishes clear - he wants a factory ride and isn't fussy about who he rides for.
When Rossi famously drew a line in the sand and said 'him or me', Yamaha broke with decades of history and backed the young gun that had shown nothing but loyalty and dedication.
When Cal clearly stated he wanted to go to Ducati, I don't know if he realised how much of an affront that was to Yamaha. Not only did he put his contract out there for the highest factory bidder, but he bitched and moaned all year about the state of his bike and the lack of support from Yamaha.
As Dovi found out to his cost, you don't .... with the Japanese. They respect loyalty, they don't do well in the face of outspoken criticism.
Dovi will never ever ride another HRC bike, unless he is paying for it himself. I suspect Cal has similarly shot himself in the foot with his mouth and his lack of loyalty.
My comment was not directed at you but seeing as though you think it is you could explain to me how the section you enlarged and bolded in the interview you quoted and then your "made his own bed" comment is not blaming Crutchlow for Crutchlow's predicament of losing his ride next year despite out performing most of the field so far this year.
Crutchlow is playing a high stakes game by only going for a one year contract. From what I have seen and read about him that is who he is. He lays it on the line and backs himself. I like his brashness and his speak his mind attitude. I like his style on the bike. If he loses out and ends up with no ride, well, bad luck. You play high risk, you gotta be prepared for the wins and the losses. In my opinion if you are not Spanish or Rossi then this is the way you have to play. Just look at all the others who have languished on crap equipment or been kicked to the curb because they played conservative.
Crutchlow is playing a high stakes game by only going for a one year contract. From what I have seen and read about him that is who he is. He lays it on the line and backs himself. I like his brashness and his speak his mind attitude. I like his style on the bike. If he loses out and ends up with no ride, well, bad luck. You play high risk, you gotta be prepared for the wins and the losses. In my opinion if you are not Spanish or Rossi then this is the way you have to play. Just look at all the others who have languished on crap equipment or been kicked to the curb because they played conservative.
BJ.C
Realy? well a little bird told me Pol is going to get a big wage from Dorna and Yamaha a good payday from a spanish sponser, Krop will hear about this soon if he hasn't yet, nothing to do with hardball im afraid.
Realy? well a little bird told me Pol is going to get a big wage from Dorna and Yamaha a good payday from a spanish sponser, Krop will hear about this soon if he hasn't yet, nothing to do with hardball im afraid.
Mental Anarchist
Well it was directly after my post and directly addressed points in my post - so what was I supposed to think?
And no, as I have said, more than once, there is no blame, just an attempt to adress those that are crying that Yamaha is wronging Crutchlow. The 'bed' statement I will stand by - he is the architect of his current situation. He had the option of a two-year contract, but he chose to take a single year because he thinks he will fare better at Ducati. This is after Ducati decided they didn't want him and that Dovi was the better bet. His comments about Ducati and Yamaha may come back to bite him on the .... He really needs to learn to leave this stuff on the negotiating table and not make a public hoo-ha about it.
And it isn't Crutchlow that is saying he is hard-done-by, but the posters on here saying he is better than Espargaro and so should retain his seat. Those were whom the post was aimed. I don't know that Cal reads Powerslide.
And no doubt when that 'bad luck' ends up with him riding an ART for Paul Bird, all those that are saying how unfair it is will back him to the hilt, because it is his gamesmanship that have engineered him to where he is.
Maybe Ducati will take him next year - but there are a whole lot of 'ifs' between there and now. For that to happen they would have to drop Hayden and not have any other rider in the frame. Given that an Italian rider on the Italian marque would make a lot of sense from a marketing perspective, or that an American (Ducati's biggest market) would make even more sense and given that Cal, on identical equipment, didn't match his team-mate who is now at Ducati and, if we are to believe the scuttlebutt, they don't feel is capable of winning a WC, what would you expect Ducati to do?
Personally I think Crutchlow would have been better served by staying at Tech3 and consolidating his position as the top satellite rider, nipping at the heels of the factory boys.
Getting a win, or even a couple of podiums, would have put him in a much stronger negotiating position than he currently is.
Right now, I see him as being a guy without a ride next year and a guy without a whole lot of options or reasons for a factory team to pick him.
If he's lucky, he will get a ride with Suzuki or whatever other new team comes along, because there isn't a whole lot of seats going begging even with the CRT teams.
And the responsibility for that (blame, if you like) rests solely with him. He screwed the pooch.
If he had stayed with Tech3, knuckled down and delivered some results, not just the promise of results, he would be in a great position for future seats when they become available. Through his machinations he neither has a factory seat, nor the seat on the top-rated satellite bike in the paddock.
Whether that is because he has an inflated sense of his own importance, a poor grasp of the politics of GP racing, a naive view of how things 'should' be, I don't know. but Poncheral has made it clear - Cal chose to be in this position by looking where the grass was greener. It's just a pity that that grass has a 'keep off' sign on it at the moment.
Well it was directly after my post and directly addressed points in my post - so what was I supposed to think?
And no, as I have said, more than once, there is no blame, just an attempt to adress those that are crying that Yamaha is wronging Crutchlow. The 'bed' statement I will stand by - he is the architect of his current situation. He had the option of a two-year contract, but he chose to take a single year because he thinks he will fare better at Ducati. This is after Ducati decided they didn't want him and that Dovi was the better bet. His comments about Ducati and Yamaha may come back to bite him on the .... He really needs to learn to leave this stuff on the negotiating table and not make a public hoo-ha about it.
And it isn't Crutchlow that is saying he is hard-done-by, but the posters on here saying he is better than Espargaro and so should retain his seat. Those were whom the post was aimed. I don't know that Cal reads Powerslide.
And no doubt when that 'bad luck' ends up with him riding an ART for Paul Bird, all those that are saying how unfair it is will back him to the hilt, because it is his gamesmanship that have engineered him to where he is.
Maybe Ducati will take him next year - but there are a whole lot of 'ifs' between there and now. For that to happen they would have to drop Hayden and not have any other rider in the frame. Given that an Italian rider on the Italian marque would make a lot of sense from a marketing perspective, or that an American (Ducati's biggest market) would make even more sense and given that Cal, on identical equipment, didn't match his team-mate who is now at Ducati and, if we are to believe the scuttlebutt, they don't feel is capable of winning a WC, what would you expect Ducati to do?
Personally I think Crutchlow would have been better served by staying at Tech3 and consolidating his position as the top satellite rider, nipping at the heels of the factory boys.
Getting a win, or even a couple of podiums, would have put him in a much stronger negotiating position than he currently is.
Right now, I see him as being a guy without a ride next year and a guy without a whole lot of options or reasons for a factory team to pick him.
If he's lucky, he will get a ride with Suzuki or whatever other new team comes along, because there isn't a whole lot of seats going begging even with the CRT teams.
And the responsibility for that (blame, if you like) rests solely with him. He screwed the pooch.
If he had stayed with Tech3, knuckled down and delivered some results, not just the promise of results, he would be in a great position for future seats when they become available. Through his machinations he neither has a factory seat, nor the seat on the top-rated satellite bike in the paddock.
Whether that is because he has an inflated sense of his own importance, a poor grasp of the politics of GP racing, a naive view of how things 'should' be, I don't know. but Poncheral has made it clear - Cal chose to be in this position by looking where the grass was greener. It's just a pity that that grass has a 'keep off' sign on it at the moment.
thedeal
Perhaps 'hardball' was too strong a term. They are pragmatists - they have to be when juggling million-dollar budgets. Cal wants the big bucks. When they have the option of a very fast and dedicated young rider who has proven to be sensible in the controversy and media departments who they will get, effectively for free, or a 'hard man' gobby Pom with delusions of grandeur, I think they are taking the right option.
Cal could have taken a two-year contract with Tech3, Smith would be demoted at the end of 2014 and his seat would be open for Pol. His attempts at increasing his worth by playing off Yamaha against Ducati have ended up with him looking at a bleak 2014.
If he was hitting the podium on a regular basis, was saying nice things in the press about the great guys at Yamaha and the awesome support they are giving his team, was making an extra effort to be a company man, then he might be a much more attractive proposition to a company that, at the end of the day, relies on the promotion of their GP riders to do a lot of selling on their behalf.
I've no doubt Cal is a heck of a character and would be a hoot on a night out, but looking at it from a business perspective, Pol is a better bet.
Perhaps 'hardball' was too strong a term. They are pragmatists - they have to be when juggling million-dollar budgets. Cal wants the big bucks. When they have the option of a very fast and dedicated young rider who has proven to be sensible in the controversy and media departments who they will get, effectively for free, or a 'hard man' gobby Pom with delusions of grandeur, I think they are taking the right option.
Cal could have taken a two-year contract with Tech3, Smith would be demoted at the end of 2014 and his seat would be open for Pol. His attempts at increasing his worth by playing off Yamaha against Ducati have ended up with him looking at a bleak 2014.
If he was hitting the podium on a regular basis, was saying nice things in the press about the great guys at Yamaha and the awesome support they are giving his team, was making an extra effort to be a company man, then he might be a much more attractive proposition to a company that, at the end of the day, relies on the promotion of their GP riders to do a lot of selling on their behalf.
I've no doubt Cal is a heck of a character and would be a hoot on a night out, but looking at it from a business perspective, Pol is a better bet.
Ahhhh Hayden...... the most overrated rider in motorcycling history. I wonder how many bikes he's sold throughout his career and how many employee of the month plaque he's earned.
Crutchlow wants a factory ride so he is allowed to win. Period. If Crutchlow started beating both the factory Yamaha's consistently or even a couple of times his bike would be detuned to prevent it happening.
On a Factory Bike, even a Ducati, if he is good enough he will be allowed to win. Period. The Ducati is a bike that can win races. It just needs a rider who is capable of making it happen. If I was to put money on who has a better chance of making that happen between Dovi and Crutchlow. My money would go on Crutchlow. But I think the only man who can <u>actually</u> make it happen is Stoner. That is why I think before long Ducati will reach out and court Stoner to return. I have no idea if it will be successful but I guarantee it will happen.
Crutchlow has a decent shot at Hayden's bike next year if he loses his Yamaha seat. Then Stoner can take Dovi's in 2015 and we will have a 3 manufacturer fight for the Championship.
<u>2015 Factory Rider Line Up</u>
Yamaha - Lorenzo & Pol
Honda - Marquez & Pedrosa
Ducati - Stoner & Crutchlow
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Mental Anarchist
I don't see the Duc as capable of winning anything. Without Stoner - it's crap. Back when Capi was on the 990s there was some parity - but from the beginning of the 800 era till now, it's been a wonky piece of crap, that only Stoner could win on. If Crutchlow can't do better on the satellite Yam, then it's a fair bet, he'd only languish on the Duc like every other rider. Since 2006 Yamaha and Honda have just gotten better and better and the Ducati has been spinning it's wheels in the dust. Remember... even tho he didn't win the championship three years ago, Rossi was still pretty competitive, and he couldn't do .... on the Ducati, and Cal's no Rossi. Every year since the beginning of the 800 era people have been foretellng the coming of a rider who would come along and tame the Ducati, and other than Stoner, it ain't happened.
I don't see the Duc as capable of winning anything. Without Stoner - it's crap. Back when Capi was on the 990s there was some parity - but from the beginning of the 800 era till now, it's been a wonky piece of crap, that only Stoner could win on. If Crutchlow can't do better on the satellite Yam, then it's a fair bet, he'd only languish on the Duc like every other rider. Since 2006 Yamaha and Honda have just gotten better and better and the Ducati has been spinning it's wheels in the dust. Remember... even tho he didn't win the championship three years ago, Rossi was still pretty competitive, and he couldn't do .... on the Ducati, and Cal's no Rossi. Every year since the beginning of the 800 era people have been foretellng the coming of a rider who would come along and tame the Ducati, and other than Stoner, it ain't happened.
Mental Anarchist
Do you want to distribute some of what you are smoking?
The Ducati is capable of winning - the CRT class, maybe.
The last time it won a race was in Oct 2010. That's 40+ races ago. That's a long time for a bike that you say is "a bike that can win races" to be looking for a rider that can deliver those wins.
Just 4 races ago it had the winningest rider of the modern (Post-Ago) era riding it for 36 races and he couldn't do .... with it.
But you state that a rider with two podiums from 37 starts is the man to do the job. He's currently riding the best privateer bike in the paddock and getting fourth/fifth places. But he will take what every single pundit and rider in the GP world has categorically stated is a flawed, unpredictable, unstable bike and put it on the top step.
Dovi is a far superior rider in every way to Crutchlow. If he is unable to make a dent at the front, Crutchlow will never manage it. At the top end, these guys need fantastic resources to catch their mistakes - Stoner indicated that he would save a front-end tuck maybe ten or more times per lap. Crutchlow can't do that. He crashes the most stable bike in the paddock on a regular basis.
Yeah, man. Those mushrooms are really trippy...
Do you want to distribute some of what you are smoking?
The Ducati is capable of winning - the CRT class, maybe.
The last time it won a race was in Oct 2010. That's 40+ races ago. That's a long time for a bike that you say is "a bike that can win races" to be looking for a rider that can deliver those wins.
Just 4 races ago it had the winningest rider of the modern (Post-Ago) era riding it for 36 races and he couldn't do .... with it.
But you state that a rider with two podiums from 37 starts is the man to do the job. He's currently riding the best privateer bike in the paddock and getting fourth/fifth places. But he will take what every single pundit and rider in the GP world has categorically stated is a flawed, unpredictable, unstable bike and put it on the top step.
Dovi is a far superior rider in every way to Crutchlow. If he is unable to make a dent at the front, Crutchlow will never manage it. At the top end, these guys need fantastic resources to catch their mistakes - Stoner indicated that he would save a front-end tuck maybe ten or more times per lap. Crutchlow can't do that. He crashes the most stable bike in the paddock on a regular basis.
Yeah, man. Those mushrooms are really trippy...
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