Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
It doesn't compare but owning part of hpe coxa has got to help offset things. There's a reason it took so long for Honda and yamaha to catch up in the engine department and it doesn't simply come down to the desmo valves
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
It wasnt that they didnt know how to combat the Ducati hp advantage, it just took them a couple of years to decide to spend the money to implement it. Once they did, Ducati's advantage disappeared over night.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Unconfirmed since no timing is being made public, but journalist are saying hand times was in the 1.48.500 range. For comparison, Stoner did 1.47.3's at Mugello test earlier this year on the 800. The 1000's would have been significantly faster than the 800's at Mugello had they tested them. So, it looks as if Ducati has still got a ways to go
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
I wonder how many peeps hiding in the shadows with stop watches and vid cameras and .....
http://motomatters.com/press_release/2011/09/08/the_ducati_rossi_mugello_test_official_p.html
http://motomatters.com/press_release/2011/09/08/the_ducati_rossi_mugello_test_official_p.html
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
First photo of the GP12.1 at Mugello with Battaini (from Sportmediaset):
Rossi began his tests this morning with the 'old' GP12 an after a few laps crashed, with no consequences. He should be able to resume testing in the afternoon.
How did you post this pic? I thought uploading was disabled.
Btw, I know the 'reported' times were still off the pace, but if what I think I'm seeing in this pic is what I think I'm seeing, then being only 1.something+ off the pace on their first attempt at this type of "frame" bodes well. We may just get a Ducati near the front and the Rossi fans who have been fairly quite this year will be able to return posting in mass.
I'm assuming this was not on the new spec tires, so if they get what they want for next year's tires, this may bee good news for next year's championship.
Joined Apr 2011
636 Posts | 26+
Gold Coast
and how long has that frame been seriously in development? if the reports are anything to go by, not long, as valentino said their current gp12 was .......... im guessing that they probably had something similar to this on the computers already, but to get it from the computer to the racetrack, AND post a comptetitive time in the space of 2-3 months is a pretty huge feat.
as for the quiet valentino fans, we prefer to abide by the rule that if you havent got anthing intellegent to say, dont say anything. unlike these mouthy stoner fans........
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
1. and how long has that frame been seriously in development? if the reports are anything to go by, not long, as valentino said their current gp12 was .......... im guessing that they probably had something similar to this on the computers already, but to get it from the computer to the racetrack, AND post a comptetitive time in the space of 2-3 months is a pretty huge feat.
2. as for the quiet valentino fans, we prefer to abide by the rule that if you havent got anthing intellegent to say, dont say anything. unlike these mouthy stoner fans........
1. dont steal my point
2. some boppers didnt get memo
3.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Yamaha (spelled Y.a.m.a.h.a, and pronounced 'Yah-ma-ha'
Oh that was rich man!! Fukin priceless!
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
Good point. Maybe Briggs and Stratton can be convinced to build a CRT team next yr
Joined Feb 2008
3K Posts | 470+
Outback Steakhouse
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Dunno, I just uploaded it.
I agree that 1:48:5 (some say 1:48:05) would not be that bad for a brand new frame. But I doubt it was a full twin spar that they tested, I think they only tested an aluminum equivalent of the old trellis they used up to 2009. The trellis frame was longer than the current CF subframe, as it bolted on the base of the cylinders rather than the head covers like now, so it guaranteed a little more flex. If we look at results, Ducati had many more wins in the years of the trellis (24 in 6 years, 2003-2008) than afterwards when they switched to CF (7 wins since 2009), but that must have depended on other causes as well. I think this was a test of an intermediate solution that could be used on the 800 also in the upcoming races, whereas the new full frame should appear only at Valencia. I heard they are using both FTR and Suter for building two different frames, so it could be that...
Anyway as they say, we'll see! I think a return to an aluminum equivalent of the old trellis would already be enough to make Vale more competitive. Capirossi could win on the trellis bike, but is absolutely at a loss with the CF version.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
No you are dead right there ........ these were far more important than any other part of the Ducati:
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Oh they had a GP bike back in the early 70's ...... look it even says it on the front!:
Dunno, I just uploaded it.
I agree that 1:48:5 (some say 1:48:05) would not be that bad for a brand new frame. But I doubt it was a full twin spar that they tested, I think they only tested an aluminum equivalent of the old trellis they used up to 2009. The trellis frame was longer than the current CF subframe, as it bolted on the base of the cylinders rather than the head covers like now, so it guaranteed a little more flex. If we look at results, Ducati had many more wins in the years of the trellis (24 in 6 years, 2003-2008) than afterwards when they switched to CF (7 wins since 2009), but that must have depended on other causes as well. I think this was a test of an intermediate solution that could be used on the 800 also in the upcoming races, whereas the new full frame should appear only at Valencia. I heard they are using both FTR and Suter for building two different frames, so it could be that...
Anyway as they say, we'll see! I think a return to an aluminum equivalent of the old trellis would already be enough to make Vale more competitive. Capirossi could win on the trellis bike, but is absolutely at a loss with the CF version.
Aluminium trellis and a return to the screamer might make him even more competitive. I still don't think the cf 2009 bike was so bad, but that may be because they built an aluminium bike that worked and replicated its characteristics in cf. I also still think whatever they did between the 2009 and 2010 bikes, not necessarily the switch to bigbang although this was one change, was a bad mis-step. The 2009 cf bike whilst still not competitive for riders other than stoner did not have the front-end instability of the later iterations.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
I still think the change from screamer to big bang was more critical for SToner than the CF headset. And given that the screamer would have made the rear a bit "wilder" may not have made the grip balance shift to creating problems up front. I've said it before and I'll say it again ..... it was all in the grip balance, and it probably still is.
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
Yamaha (spelled Y.a.m.a.h.a, and pronounced 'Yah-ma-ha'
You've got to wonder who they stole the chassis parameters from!
I'm sure JB has, over the years, accumulated a fair amount of data regarding dimensions, thicknesses, etc. But does he know the actual stiffness values for each component, etc? Is that the sort of thing Yamaha would reveal? (Or would they simply say, "Here's a new swing arm, it's a little stiffer in this or that dimension. Try it and tell us how it goes.") If JB does have intimate knowledge, isn't sharing that with Ducati a violation of the confidentiality clause he no doubt signed?
There are a bazillion ways to weld up an aluminum frame. In the past, big companies like Honda have produced dozens of variations in a single year. (And even Honda has screwed up on occasion - remember Pedrosa wobbling down the straights a few years back?) What are the odds that Duc just happened to throw together a few random bits of extrusion and hit somewhere near the sweet spot on the first try? Slim to none, IMO.
ESPIONAGE is afoot! I predict a Spy-gate scandal to erupt by the middle of next year.
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