Which raises the question: Is a prototype that is completely without any chance of a podium any better than a well-sorted CRT machine, or even a Honda production racer?
levigarrett
Right, I didn't know they weren't that good, never seen them race you see. I'm so new to this
Right, I didn't know they weren't that good, never seen them race you see. I'm so new to this
Lyria
I understand, just pointing out that more entrants will not yield better racing at the pointy end. Podium participants absent heavy rain are fairly easy to predict.
Suzuki will not see the podium for quite some time. I didn't mean insult you. My apologies.
3415261359132518
Right, I didn't know they weren't that good, never seen them race you see. I'm so new to this
I understand, just pointing out that more entrants will not yield better racing at the pointy end. Podium participants absent heavy rain are fairly easy to predict.
Suzuki will not see the podium for quite some time. I didn't mean insult you. My apologies.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
BJ.C
Thats becasue you're ignorant, and have little insight other than what you looked up on google.
Kropotkin
Why are you being so shill? Hahaha. (jk)
Kropo, thanks for outlining Suzuki and Dornas recent-past mutual arrangement. I agree with what you are stating, but not with your point, or your suggestion that Suzuki have been sucking on Dorna's ..., and Dorna is finally tired of it. This was a time when Dorna were hard pressed to keep the few entries it had on the grid, who’s fault was that? The League created a situation where it became increasingly difficult to maintain entries at reasonable cost, and made the situation systematically worse (one could argue, as you have, at the behest of Honda to eliminate competition by viture of costing them out the game, so I guess not all .... are created equal). May I point to the loss of KRSR’s entry to make my point?
I have said in the past that Suzuki were half hearted in their attempts to win and were content to simply compete, as their commitment to the sport did not rise to the level of the other two Jap manufactures, most likely as a matter of company budgeting culture. That is, they were content to compete at their comfort level hence why they haven’t won much. There was an article that was posted here a while back that talked about Suzuki’s particular culture regarding
competition. You might want to revisit it. So, Suzuki’s willingness to compete at a lower level in a time that Dorna wanted more speaks to Dornas frustration and today’s vindictiveness. Dorna then created a ........ grid-filler class. No need to court Suzuki now, the balance of power has shifted. Not to mention, the right riders are at the front now. Lets not go sucking Dorna's .... shall we. Dorna are not in the charity business, so I wouldn't classify Suzuki's arrangements with them as a one sided hand-out. Dorna benefited from Suzuki's presence and were willing to invest to get a return.
Perhaps the case can be made Suzuki were, as MA dubbed, simply employing the Rossi-tactic of staying in the game (and why not, it worked for years for VR and still working today, not to mention it has worked for Honda perhaps just as well). Dorna's eagerness to bend the rules for them? And what is your point here, dude, you make me laugh, Dorna seem to be in the business of bending, changing, eliminating rules. They do more of that then anything else. Sure, it may have been a minor annoyance to Dorna to bend them for Suzuki, but they bent the rules anyway, didn't they. So what did they get in return, oh yeah, another Spanish rider. And guess what, they continue to write rules in chalk. Perhaps it was annoying only because Suzuki is not a Spanish team with Spanish sponsorship. But ask yourself (you might be the wrong person to be asking though) just how annoyed do you think Dorna were in not just bending but eliminating that pesky Rookie Rule for Marquez to enter the Honda 'Repsol' team? My point, Dorna have been handing out plenty of subsidies in different forms, Suzuki haven't been the only nor the most egregious recipients of such arrangements. The difference here is that Dorna are more vindictive, now that Suzuki is gone coupled with the new reality that all us fans (with the blessing of no expert opposition) are happily accepting the two-dicks on a bike equivalent that is CRTs. As I've said before, Carmelo Clause/Grinch can make arrogant bold pronouncements because his moves and words are unchecked, and even more now (that is, in the past he got his way through horse trading, now its just his own deal). You want to talk about bending the rules to influence the game? Ok, where shall I start? Except you won't read them from a Dorna press release.
Edit to add, speaking of rules, it still boggles my mind why Ducati stayed in the game after 07. I suppose the sweet taste of victory was too present, but the writing was on the wall, and has just got worse. Just about every rules changes has been detrimental to them, yet they stayed, and at one point supplied a grip of bikes to the grid. But much of the same reasons that lead Suzuki to leave or indirectly the similar as to why Ducati have remained largely uncompetative. The difference perhaps being that the big sponsorship that they have enjoyed (another mind boggling arrangement) has carried them enough to stay in the game.)
Edit: Wtf is up with the weird text format?
Thats becasue you're ignorant, and have little insight other than what you looked up on google.
Kropotkin
Why are you being so shill? Hahaha. (jk)
Kropo, thanks for outlining Suzuki and Dornas recent-past mutual arrangement. I agree with what you are stating, but not with your point, or your suggestion that Suzuki have been sucking on Dorna's ..., and Dorna is finally tired of it. This was a time when Dorna were hard pressed to keep the few entries it had on the grid, who’s fault was that? The League created a situation where it became increasingly difficult to maintain entries at reasonable cost, and made the situation systematically worse (one could argue, as you have, at the behest of Honda to eliminate competition by viture of costing them out the game, so I guess not all .... are created equal). May I point to the loss of KRSR’s entry to make my point?
I have said in the past that Suzuki were half hearted in their attempts to win and were content to simply compete, as their commitment to the sport did not rise to the level of the other two Jap manufactures, most likely as a matter of company budgeting culture. That is, they were content to compete at their comfort level hence why they haven’t won much. There was an article that was posted here a while back that talked about Suzuki’s particular culture regarding
competition. You might want to revisit it. So, Suzuki’s willingness to compete at a lower level in a time that Dorna wanted more speaks to Dornas frustration and today’s vindictiveness. Dorna then created a ........ grid-filler class. No need to court Suzuki now, the balance of power has shifted. Not to mention, the right riders are at the front now. Lets not go sucking Dorna's .... shall we. Dorna are not in the charity business, so I wouldn't classify Suzuki's arrangements with them as a one sided hand-out. Dorna benefited from Suzuki's presence and were willing to invest to get a return.
Perhaps the case can be made Suzuki were, as MA dubbed, simply employing the Rossi-tactic of staying in the game (and why not, it worked for years for VR and still working today, not to mention it has worked for Honda perhaps just as well). Dorna's eagerness to bend the rules for them? And what is your point here, dude, you make me laugh, Dorna seem to be in the business of bending, changing, eliminating rules. They do more of that then anything else. Sure, it may have been a minor annoyance to Dorna to bend them for Suzuki, but they bent the rules anyway, didn't they. So what did they get in return, oh yeah, another Spanish rider. And guess what, they continue to write rules in chalk. Perhaps it was annoying only because Suzuki is not a Spanish team with Spanish sponsorship. But ask yourself (you might be the wrong person to be asking though) just how annoyed do you think Dorna were in not just bending but eliminating that pesky Rookie Rule for Marquez to enter the Honda 'Repsol' team? My point, Dorna have been handing out plenty of subsidies in different forms, Suzuki haven't been the only nor the most egregious recipients of such arrangements. The difference here is that Dorna are more vindictive, now that Suzuki is gone coupled with the new reality that all us fans (with the blessing of no expert opposition) are happily accepting the two-dicks on a bike equivalent that is CRTs. As I've said before, Carmelo Clause/Grinch can make arrogant bold pronouncements because his moves and words are unchecked, and even more now (that is, in the past he got his way through horse trading, now its just his own deal). You want to talk about bending the rules to influence the game? Ok, where shall I start? Except you won't read them from a Dorna press release.
Edit to add, speaking of rules, it still boggles my mind why Ducati stayed in the game after 07. I suppose the sweet taste of victory was too present, but the writing was on the wall, and has just got worse. Just about every rules changes has been detrimental to them, yet they stayed, and at one point supplied a grip of bikes to the grid. But much of the same reasons that lead Suzuki to leave or indirectly the similar as to why Ducati have remained largely uncompetative. The difference perhaps being that the big sponsorship that they have enjoyed (another mind boggling arrangement) has carried them enough to stay in the game.)
Edit: Wtf is up with the weird text format?
havent gotten the chance to read everyones responses in detail, so for that I apologize. Busy days at work :wallbash:
My quick take on it is that perhaps it is not a punishment to suzuki for leaving, but a slow fading of all the factory squads. CRTs arent going away, and maybe they don't want another factory to come in push the crt's back further. Eventually you have to think that it will unfortunately be a crt championship? My 2 cents.
My quick take on it is that perhaps it is not a punishment to suzuki for leaving, but a slow fading of all the factory squads. CRTs arent going away, and maybe they don't want another factory to come in push the crt's back further. Eventually you have to think that it will unfortunately be a crt championship? My 2 cents.
Jum, my point is not that Suzuki have been sucking Dorna ..., but that they are unreliable. You can't do deals with them, because they do not stick to their end of the deal.
Kropotkin
Some could argue that Dorna don't stick to deals either. Or perhaps Dorna does deals with some and not others. As you know this has been my reasoning behind the lack of sponsorship due to deals not being handed out evenly.
As you have mentioned on your site and in response to Ngads comment: CRT's will be morphed into something better, which now appears to be Independently run Factory Teams. Which is really what WSBK is or has been.
Some could argue that Dorna don't stick to deals either. Or perhaps Dorna does deals with some and not others. As you know this has been my reasoning behind the lack of sponsorship due to deals not being handed out evenly.
As you have mentioned on your site and in response to Ngads comment: CRT's will be morphed into something better, which now appears to be Independently run Factory Teams. Which is really what WSBK is or has been.
michaelm
The tyres are on contract with IRTA, paid for from the team's entry fee. Dorna don't have much to do with it, from what I gather, unless they are paying the entry fee.
The tyres are on contract with IRTA, paid for from the team's entry fee. Dorna don't have much to do with it, from what I gather, unless they are paying the entry fee.
BJ.C
The control tyre has been In for several years, and you may remember better than me, but my recollection is that michelin provided tyres free to some teams but charged others, and I think dorna was subsidising the satellite teams, hence also their annoyance at the cost of the satellite bikes provided by honda and yamaha.
The control tyre has been In for several years, and you may remember better than me, but my recollection is that michelin provided tyres free to some teams but charged others, and I think dorna was subsidising the satellite teams, hence also their annoyance at the cost of the satellite bikes provided by honda and yamaha.
Sorry, I don't know what happened in the past, only the current state of the tyre rules.
I think when tyres became restricted in number and type, to make it a level playing field your entry fee included your tyre allocation. IIRC you are free to buy additional tyres for testing, assuming Bridgestone have them available.
I think when tyres became restricted in number and type, to make it a level playing field your entry fee included your tyre allocation. IIRC you are free to buy additional tyres for testing, assuming Bridgestone have them available.
levigarrett
No need to apologise, I didn't feel insulted at all, honest. I just hate my lack of knowledge of this kind of thing. I just assumed that Suzuki being a fairly major maufacturor would be a competitive force coming back into the sport, just shows you should never assume I suppose.
No need to apologise, I didn't feel insulted at all, honest. I just hate my lack of knowledge of this kind of thing. I just assumed that Suzuki being a fairly major maufacturor would be a competitive force coming back into the sport, just shows you should never assume I suppose.
Suzuki had a 'golden' period in the early 60s in the TT and GP with 50s and 125s after Ernst Degner defected from MZ in East Germany. He brought the two-stroke technology they needed and they started to see some wins.
He won the 50cc WC in 62 and helped by his engineering skills, Hugh Anderson took the 125cc WC in 65.
They won the 50cc WC in 62, 63, 64, 66, 67, 68. 125 WC in 63, 65 and 70. They never managed to win the 250cc WC, but did win a few races.
Barry Sheene brought them two WCs in 76 and 77, Luchinelli in 81 and Uncini in 82, Kevin Schwantz in 93 and Kenny Roberts Jr on a Suzuki Powered KR in 2000.
In 500 racing the RG was always a keen bike, but with Yamaha and Honda having the cream of the top riders, it was always tough for anyone else to win a WC.
I've ridden two GP RG500s - Stu Avant's RG-B and a bitsa RG-A/B my mate Richard resurrected from parts. They were... frantic
He won the 50cc WC in 62 and helped by his engineering skills, Hugh Anderson took the 125cc WC in 65.
They won the 50cc WC in 62, 63, 64, 66, 67, 68. 125 WC in 63, 65 and 70. They never managed to win the 250cc WC, but did win a few races.
Barry Sheene brought them two WCs in 76 and 77, Luchinelli in 81 and Uncini in 82, Kevin Schwantz in 93 and Kenny Roberts Jr on a Suzuki Powered KR in 2000.
In 500 racing the RG was always a keen bike, but with Yamaha and Honda having the cream of the top riders, it was always tough for anyone else to win a WC.
I've ridden two GP RG500s - Stu Avant's RG-B and a bitsa RG-A/B my mate Richard resurrected from parts. They were... frantic
BJ.C
KR Jr won on a factory Suzuki entry in 2000, there was nothing KR Sr about it
3415711359187465
Suzuki had a 'golden' period in the early 60s in the TT and GP with 50s and 125s after Ernst Degner defected from MZ in East Germany. He brought the two-stroke technology they needed and they started to see some wins.
He won the 50cc WC in 62 and helped by his engineering skills, Hugh Anderson took the 125cc WC in 65.
They won the 50cc WC in 62, 63, 64, 66, 67, 68. 125 WC in 63, 65 and 70. They never managed to win the 250cc WC, but did win a few races.
Barry Sheene brought them two WCs in 76 and 77, Luchinelli in 81 and Uncini in 82, Kevin Schwantz in 93 and Kenny Roberts Jr on a Suzuki Powered KR in 2000.
In 500 racing the RG was always a keen bike, but with Yamaha and Honda having the cream of the top riders, it was always tough for anyone else to win a WC.
I've ridden two GP RG500s - Stu Avant's RG-B and a bitsa RG-A/B my mate Richard resurrected from parts. They were... frantic
KR Jr won on a factory Suzuki entry in 2000, there was nothing KR Sr about it
Gaz
My mistake, I thought he was riding for his Dad's outfit using their chassis.
Cheers for the fix.
My mistake, I thought he was riding for his Dad's outfit using their chassis.
Cheers for the fix.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
New rumor that Brivio will be running the Suzuki effort.
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Jan/130125r9cvo.htm
He confirms there has been contact
"Suzuki contacted me for MotoGP but I'm just talking and I'm not the only one. They have not yet decided yet about 2014 but only testing 2013."
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Jan/130125r9cvo.htm
He confirms there has been contact
"Suzuki contacted me for MotoGP but I'm just talking and I'm not the only one. They have not yet decided yet about 2014 but only testing 2013."
