Dorna run a fair competition.(Or do they)

Daniboy said:

That Rossi deserved his return is purely a matter of opinion, also that he's washed up which it is plain to see he is not.
Dovi, a good rider but not in the alien group by any means.
Spies I really thought he would do better but I guess it kind of proves that a great superbike rider does not necessarily become great in GP , shame really as the US could do with someone in world championship racing.

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He was washed up in 2012 that's all I'm saying

Daniboy said:

That Rossi deserved his return is purely a matter of opinion, also that he's washed up which it is plain to see he is not.
Dovi, a good rider but not in the alien group by any means.
Spies I really thought he would do better but I guess it kind of proves that a great superbike rider does not necessarily become great in GP , shame really as the US could do with someone in world championship racing.

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Ha.

Anyone riding on the factory Yamaha or Honda generally has a 1:4 chance of winning a race. Sometimes the odds decrease. But being on one of those bikes matters so much, that you are pretty much nearly guaranteed to be in the running for a podium position at the absolute worst.

Every race since Valencia 2010 has been won by either a factory Yamaha or factory Honda. That's the beauty, you can be washed up or near it, but being on one of those bikes is the next best thing after finding a fountain of youth.

Dovi might not be in the "alien group" but neither is Rossi.

Actually, this is a good time to let you know that there are no aliens in MotoGP. It's a complete ........ term that is thrown around with reckless abandon while ignoring that said "alien" happens to be on one of the best bikes on the grid. The last true alien on the grid was Casey Stoner. Marquez might be the closest to legit alien status, but it's hard to say since he is on the bike that provides 1:4 odds.

To say being a great superbike rider doesn't mean one will be a great GP rider with regards to Ben Spies is certainly true. But you also conveniently leave out the fact that his 2012 campaign saw Yamaha supply him with the most unreliable series of bikes that they have ever supplied a rider with. That 2012 season was all Yamaha's fault, so you can't really make a valid assessment of what Spies might have done or whether he underachieved since that plus the injury in 2013 cut short any possibility with Ben. To say he wasn't great is to selectively remember what actually happened, and then to try and insinuate everything was in his hands.

So races 1 & 2 this year must have been anomalies then no? Well barring Iannones torpedo.

JPSLotus said:

Dovi might not be in the "alien group" but neither is Rossi.

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Dovi had the factory ride at Honda and didn't exactly set the world on fire.
A good rider, but then Stoner got on the bike in 2011 and showed him how it should be ridden.
A factory ride is no guarantee of success, although it gives you by far the best chance.

JPSLotus said:

Actually, this is a good time to let you know that there are no aliens in MotoGP. It's a complete ........ term that is thrown around with reckless abandon while ignoring that said "alien" happens to be on one of the best bikes on the grid. The last true alien on the grid was Casey Stoner. Marquez might be the closest to legit alien status, but it's hard to say since he is on the bike that provides 1:4 odds.

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Agree with the first there are no 'Aliens' on the grid, that was Colin Edwards way of making light of the fact he didn't have the pace.
Even Stoner wasn't an alien, he was an incredibly talented and fast rider, but not an 'Alien', like anyone else he could be beaten.

The reason IMO that the factory bikes are locking out the top 4 positions is that they have the 4 best riders on them, simple as that. Back in 2009 Stoner was having his medical problems and in 2010 is Duc had big problems, Hayden was fast but never a consistent winner, even on the Honda.
Rossi and Lorenzo were the best Yam riders and locked out those top positions, I can't remember the full line up, but my point was that out of all the factory teams, only Yam had two absolutely proven race winners onboard, Duc had Stoner and Honda had Pedrosa, so there was less pressure on those top spots as there was less top talent on the best bikes.

Now Honda have Pedrosa and Marquez and Yam have Lorenzo and Rossi, all consistent race winners and championship winners. (Apart from Pedrosa). They're at this moment in time, probably the best riders on the grid.

Funny how some folks have notions about Stoner not having fans outside of Australia. There's a local place in Manhattan that racers go to rent out space to store and maintain race bikes. It's home to around 28 racers. Every race weekend the place is packed with racers and their friends drinking beers and watching the races. In the five years I've been going there I've only met one Rossi fan and she was.... the girlfriend of a Stoner fan.

JohnnyKnockdown said:

Regardless of the reasons he left, in the end he quit while riding the fastest bike on the grid, capable of winning multiple championships and commanding one of the paddocks highest salaries.
Its quite a reach believing he was somehow run out of the sport.
Since when does Povol not believe in personal responsibility

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Then let me add to my last post, I hold Casey partially responsible as well for being to damn sensitive. I wouldn't go as far as saying its a fault, that's just the way some people are, but he knew or should have known what big time sport is all about. I'm sure every athlete would love to collect their check and go home without having any commitments to fill, but those commitments are the reason that check number is so high. I still believe the final nail in the coffin was the tire change after he had dominated testing prior to 2012. In his mind and many more, that was a blatant move to stop him from going on a tear.

His wife was cornered by Rossi fans on the way to the pit from the motorhome. She was verbally abused and spat upon for no other reason than being his wife. It was a big factor in his disillusionment.
This is yet another time Rossi could have reached out to his fans too cool it, but didn't for whatever reason...

yamfan said:

His wife was cornered by Rossi fans on the way to the pit from the motorhome. She was verbally abused and spat upon for no other reason than being his wife. It was a big factor in his disillusionment.
This is yet another time Rossi could have reached out to his fans too cool it, but didn't for whatever reason...

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You mean a few mindless morons, it's the same as saying the town centre was smashed up by *insert team name* fans, they are not representative of the decent majority. Tabloid newspaper mentality IMHO

Daniboy said:

You mean a few mindless morons, it's the same as saying the town centre was smashed up by *insert team name* fans, they are not representative of the decent majority. Tabloid newspaper mentality IMHO

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That's rather the problem. On the evidence of events post PI last year Rossi not only condones but encourages such attitudes among a sizable element of his fandom, hence my animus straight out against him now and not just against what I previously considered a rogue element among his fans.

michaelm said:

That's rather the problem. On the evidence of events post PI last year Rossi not only condones but encourages such attitudes among a sizable element of his fandom, hence my animus straight out against him now and not just against what I previously considered a rogue element among his fans.

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I don't think he'd encourage spitting at another rivals wife , I know about the booing of MM and JL and I fully agree that he needs to step up and say something about it rather than the mealy mouthed reply that has been given so far.

Daniboy said:

You mean a few mindless morons, it's the same as saying the town centre was smashed up by *insert team name* fans, they are not representative of the decent majority. Tabloid newspaper mentality IMHO

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They were Rossi fans. Period.
Rossi did nothing about it. Fact
There's no sugaring it whichever way you wriggle Dani.
Rossi failed miserably to act like a decent human being over that. Believe me the guy can be darker than the back of your closet [emoji1]

I would believe you if you didn't spend every single post making some story up about how Rossi destroys peoples lives and has a fanbase of ultras that spread fear and hatred towards everyone else in the paddock. No true Moto GP fans act like that and 99.9% of people who attend grands prix are decent fun loving people.

Those ones weren't, I don't spend my time like you suggest either.
I'm not worried if you don't believe it either, you'll only use some bopperish excuse to try and deny it. It was even mentioned in mcn, but wait, no it never happened because Dani says so. [emoji1]

Daniboy said:

I don't think he'd encourage spitting at another rivals wife , I know about the booing of MM and JL and I fully agree that he needs to step up and say something about it rather than the mealy mouthed reply that has been given so far.

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Hence why I said such attitudes. Spitting at someone's wife is something I doubt he would suggest but it is an extension of attitudes he does foster, imo.

michaelm said:

Hence why I said such attitudes. Spitting at someone's wife is something I doubt he would suggest but it is an extension of attitudes he does foster, imo.

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So how and where was this story of Rossi fans spitting at his wife first revealed? How did you guys come to hear about it?

yamfan said:

His wife was cornered by Rossi fans on the way to the pit from the motorhome. She was verbally abused and spat upon for no other reason than being his wife. It was a big factor in his disillusionment.
This is yet another time Rossi could have reached out to his fans too cool it, but didn't for whatever reason...

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Wtf? When was this?

tps7c said:

So how and where was this story of Rossi fans spitting at his wife first revealed? How did you guys come to hear about it?

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I am actually not aware of anyone spitting at Stoner's wife, so take it up with those who said it happened. Spitting at Stoner himself is well documented.

It is all splitting hairs imo, stabbing someone is hardly different than shooting them, which is somewhat analogous to the distinction you are attempting to draw.

I have consistently said I formerly blamed as Daniboy still does a lunatic element among Rossi's fandom for "such attitudes", since a certain press conference and many other interactions with the press since I blame Rossi himself.

The spitting incident I'm ashamed to say was in the UK at Donington Park whilst Casey was with HRC. It was reported in mcn, almost apologetically in about a column inch of print.
Everytime I've searched for it since I get the old message about things being removed for legal reasons etc.

JohnnyKnockdown said:

I dont believe Stoner has many true fans outside of Australia. He's not a very likeable fellow but his countrymen get him because he personifies Ozzy blokes.
Most people that like him only do so because they hate Rossi.

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You may be surprised as in Australia Rossi has FAR more fans than CS and from people I know overseas, CS is actually quite well regarded by those that factor in racing as their primary reason for watching. Certainly those that require a lovable/likeable larrikin style of personality have no time for Stoner

The point about Rossi though I do suspect could well be true and had not really given much thought but suggest that you certainly may be right in some corners as whilst Rossi is the poster boy in some circles, certainly Stoner may be the poster boy for those for whom Rossi may be all that is wrong with the sport. Good point JKD (I may not fully agree, but good point)

JohnnyKnockdown said:

Regardless of the reasons he left, in the end he quit while riding the fastest bike on the grid, capable of winning multiple championships and commanding one of the paddocks highest salaries.
Its quite a reach believing he was somehow run out of the sport.
Since when does Povol not believe in personal responsibility

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I do not think he was 'run out of the sport' in the same terms that you may run an undesirable person out of town, but do suspect that due to circumstances that he perceived as combining against him (real or imagined) he felt it best to leave the sport and have never heard him suggest he was run out of the sport or forced to leave (aside from the forcing being his views and desires)

To me, to leave as you say one of the best bikes and having been offered the highest salary says a lot positive about his motives and motivations for leaving.

Keshav said:

Funny how some folks have notions about Stoner not having fans outside of Australia. There's a local place in Manhattan that racers go to rent out space to store and maintain race bikes. It's home to around 28 racers. Every race weekend the place is packed with racers and their friends drinking beers and watching the races. In the five years I've been going there I've only met one Rossi fan and she was.... the girlfriend of a Stoner fan.

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There is one in every crowd hey Kesh, damn girlfriends, can't live with them, can't live without them no matter who they support

yamfan said:

His wife was cornered by Rossi fans on the way to the pit from the motorhome. She was verbally abused and spat upon for no other reason than being his wife. It was a big factor in his disillusionment.
This is yet another time Rossi could have reached out to his fans too cool it, but didn't for whatever reason...

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yamfan said:

The spitting incident I'm ashamed to say was in the UK at Donington Park whilst Casey was with HRC. It was reported in mcn, almost apologetically in about a column inch of print.
Everytime I've searched for it since I get the old message about things being removed for legal reasons etc.

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Have never heard this previously Yam and nor can I recall CS ever mentioning it.

Not to say that it never happened and looking at your second comment with it being at Donington I hate to say that I am not surprised as the lunatic fringe of the British fans did seem to be by far the worst when it came to hating CS.

michaelm said:

I am actually not aware of anyone spitting at Stoner's wife, so take it up with those who said it happened. Spitting at Stoner himself is well documented.

It is all splitting hairs imo, stabbing someone is hardly different than shooting them, which is somewhat analogous to the distinction you are attempting to draw.

I have consistently said I formerly blamed as Daniboy still does a lunatic element among Rossi's fandom for "such attitudes", since a certain press conference and many other interactions with the press since I blame Rossi himself.

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There's fans and there's idiots that wear shirts and call themselves fans, until I see or hear hard evidence that VR has actually said for his fans to behave in such a disgraceful manner I will have to believe that those 'fans' have taken it upon themselves to behave so.