Dorna run a fair competition.(Or do they)

danski · Apr 30, 2016

Right , so I have been here for a little while and what I see and read is that a dozen or so members seem to think that the series is and has been rigged in favour of one man since year dot.
If that is the case then they (Dorna) are either not very good at it or just not doing it at all.
The reason for this is simple.
2006 Nicky Hayden
2007 Casey Stoner
2010 Jorge Lorenzo
2011 Casey Stoner
2012 Jorge Lorenzo
2013 & 2014 Marc Marquez
2015 Jorge Lorenzo

Now if that is a rigged series then whoever is responsible for said rigging needs sacking as he or she has abjectly failed in their duty !

Or maybe it's just run fairly and may the best man win.. as it seems to be what usually happens.

michaelm · Apr 30, 2016

Daniboy said:
Right , so I have been here for a little while and what I see and read is that a dozen or so members seem to think that the series is and has been rigged in favour of one man since year dot.
If that is the case then they (Dorna) are either not very good at it or just not doing it at all.
The reason for this is simple.
2006 Nicky Hayden
2007 Casey Stoner
2010 Jorge Lorenzo
2011 Casey Stoner
2012 Jorge Lorenzo
2013 & 2014 Marc Marquez
2015 Jorge Lorenzo

Now if that is a rigged series then whoever is responsible for said rigging needs sacking as he or she has abjectly failed in their duty !

Or maybe it's just run fairly and may the best man win.. as it seems to be what usually happens.

I have made this point before. The fact than an unpopular rider like Stoner in particular won 2 titles should give people confidence that the title winner is not scripted, and nor are the race winners imo although I don't believe that is really Jumkie's point either. So it is not WWE, which I am sure no-one believes is a legitimate sporting contest.

I don't think it is unreasonable to draw the inference that Dorna were not overly keen on Stoner going back to back, particularly in 2012, however. I think MM won his titles fair and square, apart from the last corner pass at Jerez 2013, particularly the 2014 title obviously, but he was probably also Dorna's anointed new golden boy then with Rossi not really expected to contend seriously again prior to 2015. It is rather problematic for Dorna now as their long term "old" golden boy has now perhaps permanently disqualified MM as the new golden boy.

danski · Apr 30, 2016

michaelm said:
I have made this point before. The fact than an unpopular rider like Stoner in particular won 2 titles should give people confidence that the title winner is not scripted, and nor are the race winners imo although I don't believe that is really Jumkie's point either. So it is not WWE, which I am sure no-one believes is a legitimate sporting contest.

I don't think it is unreasonable to draw the inference that Dorna were not overly keen on Stoner going back to back, particularly in 2012, however. I think MM won his titles fair and square, apart from the last corner pass at Jerez 2013, particularly the 2014 title obviously, but he was probably also Dorna's anointed new golden boy then with Rossi not really expected to contend seriously again prior to 2015. It is rather problematic for Dorna now as their long term "old" golden boy has now perhaps permanently disqualified MM as the new golden boy.

I will never know why Stoner was unpopular, as his talent was just sublime, I know he'll never come back but what a bad miss his absence is.

The Burning Barber · Apr 30, 2016

Daniboy said:
I will never know why Stoner was unpopular, as his talent was just sublime, I know he'll never come back but what a bad miss his absence is.

Well it certainly couldn't have been from his lack of ability to ride. Or the fact that he was an exceptionally clean rider also. (Please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think anyone has ever accused or questioned Stoner of dirty riding tactics?)

Arrabbiata1 · Apr 30, 2016

The Burning Barber said:
Well it certainly couldn't have been from his lack of ability to ride. Or the fact that he was an exceptionally clean rider also. (Please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think anyone has ever accused or questioned Stoner of dirty riding tactics?)

This forum went into yellow meltdown - or rather Talpa, when Stoner rammed Bautista out of the way at Mugello a few years ago. He'll no doubt recall it better than I - ask him, he goes by the name of Paparazzo now. Other than that incident, I completely agree.

michaelm · Apr 30, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
This forum went into yellow meltdown - or rather Talpa, when Stoner rammed Bautista out of the way at Mugello a few years ago. He'll no doubt recall it better than I - ask him, he goes by the name of Paparazzo now. Other than that incident, I completely agree.

Was just going to post the same thing. That was a crude pass, but not dangerous, didn't really risk taking Bautista out, and in all probability didn't affect his eventual finishing position, and would have not caused much comment ordinarily, but was by no means clean, at odds with Stoner's long term stance including in relation to occurrences in practice for that very race, and hence hypocritical imo, then and now.

Otherwise I think he really took to heart the accident he caused in 2006, where he crashed out in a corner resulting in following riders being taken out, particularly Gibernau who was injured in the crash, and earnestly endeavoured not to take out anyone else subsequently, which he never did to my recollection.

Gaz · Apr 30, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
This forum went into yellow meltdown - or rather Talpa, when Stoner rammed Bautista out of the way at Mugello a few years ago. He'll no doubt recall it better than I - ask him, he goes by the name of Paparazzo now. Other than that incident, I completely agree.

To be fair though Arrib, in Talpa's (and some others of the same leanings) world at that time if Stoner farted it was the worst thing that a motorcycle racer had ever done in the history of the sports .........

But aside from the Bautista incident I would agree and go so far as to make mention that he apologised to Lorenzo after overtaking him around the outside at turn 1 at Laguna as Stoner felt that he may have gotten a bit to close (Lorenzo praised the move as clean)

Cool Blue · Apr 30, 2016

Gaz said:
To be fair though Arrib, in Talpa's (and some others of the same leanings) world at that time if Stoner farted it was the worst thing that a motorcycle racer had ever done in the history of the sports .........

But aside from the Bautista incident I would agree and go so far as to make mention that he apologised to Lorenzo after overtaking him around the outside at turn 1 at Laguna as Stoner felt that he may have gotten a bit to close (Lorenzo praised the move as clean)

The last paragraph is a breath of fresh air Gaz. How would it be as a spectacle if every incident unfolded like that?

Contrast that to Rossi's passive aggressive, manipulative whining.

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danski · Apr 30, 2016

This will turn into another bashing fiesta by the look of it. Happens to every thread on this forum which is a great shame! Only one person has addressed the original point, so are people avoiding the question?

JPSLotus · Apr 30, 2016

You're having difficulty distinguishing between race rigging and race fixing. Rigging never guarantees the result will be set in stone, but it tries to influence it whereas fixing would determine the outcome before anything is run. There's a reason you rig rather than fix.

Cool Blue · Apr 30, 2016

Daniboy said:
This will turn into another bashing fiesta by the look of it. Happens to every thread on this forum which is a great shame! Only one person has addressed the original point, so are people avoiding the question?

The answer to your question is an inconvenient truth daniboy.

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danski · Apr 30, 2016

JPSLotus said:
You're having difficulty distinguishing between race rigging and race fixing. Rigging never guarantees the result will be set in stone, but it tries to influence it whereas fixing would determine the outcome before anything is run. There's a reason you rig rather than fix.

I said series rigging not race rigging, I would say you had the difficulty understanding what the original post was about.

JPSLotus · Apr 30, 2016

Daniboy said:
I said series rigging not race rigging, I would say you had the difficulty understanding what the original post was about.

No, you have difficulty as you usually do since you seem to think rigging guarantees results.

It's rigging and not fixing for a reason; it doesn't guarantee the results will be happen.

yamfan · Apr 30, 2016

JPSLotus said:
No, you have difficulty as you usually do since you seem to think rigging guarantees results.

It's rigging and not fixing for a reason; it doesn't guarantee the results will be happen.

He's having difficulty winning his debates, which seems to irk him.
For a starter of so many threads, he needs to have his research in place.

danski · Apr 30, 2016

yamfan said:
He's having difficulty winning his debates, which seems to irk him.
For a starter of so many threads, he needs to have his research in place.

So many threads LOL, I've made two , one of those is about the countdown timer. And the only way you guys can explain people that do not subscribe to your opinion is that they 'have difficulty' !!!

danski · Apr 30, 2016

JPSLotus said:
No, you have difficulty as you usually do since you seem to think rigging guarantees results.

It's rigging and not fixing for a reason; it doesn't guarantee the results will be happen.

Rigging would certainly have a better success rate than what has been going on since 05 if it was remotely true, hell they could have put all the top talent on satellite bikes if they were as all powerful as some seem to think.

Richy56 · Apr 30, 2016

No top sports these days are free from some sort of curruption, big or small and I don't think MotoGP is any different.

You can't tell me Rossi deserved his Yamaha seat in 2013 or how he survived not been sacked in after Sepang last year for kicking another rider off...... Money talks

p4p1 · Apr 30, 2016

Hmmmm fair well...
Ducati/Stoner worked with Bridgestone to develop a tyre that was clapable of winning a championship was then on the behest of DORNA after Bridgestone refused to work with anyone else was given to Rossi?
When other riders also asked for the same tyre(in the spirit of fairness surely) but DORNA didn't force Bridgestone to give it to those riders?(Pedrosa and Hayden to name 2)
Or when Stoner was so dominant in 2012 testing that there was a last minute change which affected the Honda and gave both Stoner and Pedrosa problems throughout the year
Or when DORNA applied pressure to Yamaha to rehire Rossi in 2013 when he CLEARLY at the time did not deserve the seat. The year after former world champion Nicky Hayden who did just as well as Rossi on the Duc was put on a production Honda.
Or when Lorenzo won 4 straight and his preferred tyre was suddenly taken out of rotation on 'safety grounds' when the track isn't as demanding as others that the tyre has appeared on.
Or when Rossi wasn't disqualified at Sepang because he was a championship contender and that had to be taken into consideration when no one who isn't a complete ...... knows that if it was anyone else even Lorenzo or Marquez the black flag or at the very least a ride through would have been shown very quickly.
Or when race direction who as far as I know can not read minds determine the guilty party Rossi is telling the truth but the innocent party Marquez is lying.

danski · Apr 30, 2016

All good but debatable points, however if (hypothetically) they're all true, why did they not result in more championships for VR ?

p4p1 · Apr 30, 2016

Daniboy said:
All good but debatable points, however if (hypothetically) they're all true, why did they not result in more championships for VR ?

Because he isn't as good as his fans would like him to be? One of them the Bridgestone switch did result in a championship for VR.

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