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Dorna chief Ezpeleta defends 'fantastic' 800cc era

Joined Jun 2006
2K Posts | 20+
south wales UK
Carmelo Ezpeleta, the CEO of MotoGP commercial rights-holder Dorna, defends the much-criticised move to 800cc three years ago - even as the premier class prepares to re-instate 1,000cc from 2012...


After Valentino Rossi described the switch from 800cc to 1,000cc in MotoGP as 'the biggest mistake the world championship has made in the last 15 years Dorna CEO Carmelo Ezpeleta has defended the move – despite the fact that an about-turn is on the cards for 2012.

From 2010 onwards, the premier class will revert to being a category open to bikes with a capacity of as large as a litre – but their 800cc counterparts will be permitted to continue alongside them, for the time being at least.

Riders, teams and fans alike have bemoaned the diminished appeal of the 800cc era, with the greater emphasis on electronics having dulled the spectacle – but Ezpeleta refuses to agree with record-breaing multiple world champion Rossi's blunt appraisal of the initiative.

“I don't know if it was the biggest mistake or not,” the Spanish head of MotoGP's commercial rights-holder told Crash.net Radio. “The years we have had with 800cc have been fantastic with some good racing, and at the end of it we can discuss what has happened.

“What we are trying to do with the new regulations is firstly reduce costs by working together, and secondly, if costs come down we will have more riders on the grid. I am sure the best riders will win regardless of what regulations we propose.

“The regulations that we approved in Valencia and in Geneva were up to 1,000cc, up to four cylinders and up to 81mm cylinder bore measurement. That means it can be no higher than those limits, but if people want to use less capacity of the engine it is possible.

“The proposal of the MSMA (Motorcycle Sports Manufacturers' Association) is to make some compensation regarding weight and litres dependent upon which bike you use – but in principle, the rules will be up to 1,000cc, up to four cylinders and up to 81mm cylinder bore measurement.

“With the litres and the weight, we think the performance will be more-or-less the same as we have right now with 800cc. I am not a very good forecaster, but I hope we will have good races with 1,000cc.”


we have had some good races but i feel we lost a big chunk of something when they introduced the 800's
 

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Does he Run A Bank too..?
you CAN'T Educate Pork.

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If 800s were so "good" than Dora the explorer (Dorna) wouldn't be looking at change the rules.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>“With the litres and the weight, we think the performance will be more-or-less the same as we have right now with 800cc. I am not a very good forecaster
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, but I hope we will have good races with 1,000cc.”

800cc and 1000cc to have same power? Why bother then? Like a dog chasing his own tail. ...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alex29 @ Feb 11 2010, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If 800s were so "good" than Dora the explorer (Dorna) wouldn't be looking at change the rules.



800cc and 1000cc to have same power? Why bother then? Like a dog chasing his own tail. ...


like the old saying goes:

"There is no replacement for displacement"
 
Relax people. Ezpeleta has to get the MSMA to sign off on the new 81mm 1000cc rule, and he hasn't been doing anything but throwing them under the bus for the past season (they deserve it). Furthermore, the 800s were always going to continue into the 81mm era so now he's got to spin the 800s as a decent racing platform.

In my opinion, the fuel rules, not the displacement, are to blame for the terrible racing in GP. The 800s are to blame for the small grids.
 
It has been difficult but I still think 800cc is the way to go. Is there a 990 lap record left standing? I think the factories will balk at the increase.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 11 2010, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It has been difficult but I still think 800cc is the way to go. Is there a 990 lap record left standing? I think the factories will balk at the increase.

what the .... does lap tme have to do with it?
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thats just stupid.

There is no point to the 800, no manufacturer produces a ....... 800, 1000's is where its at in every aspect period.
 
It isn't a production based series so who cares? The point is to achieve the quickest lap of any motorcycle on earth. The 800 is the quickest bike ever designed.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 11 2010, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It isn't a production based series so who cares? The point is to achieve the quickest lap of any motorcycle on earth. The 800 is the quickest bike ever designed.

everyone except you it seems.. the point is to beat the other rider not to achieve the fastest lap time..this is GP racing not TT racing..

win on Sunday sell on Monday actually has a meaning...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Feb 11 2010, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In my opinion, the fuel rules, not the displacement, are to blame for the terrible racing in GP. The 800s are to blame for the small grids.
Well put Lex.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 11 2010, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It has been difficult but I still think 800cc is the way to go. Is there a 990 lap record left standing? I think the factories will balk at the increase.
I think the factories may baulk at the idea solely because of the investment they've made in the 800s. The lap record point, in my opinion, is down to electronics. The importance placed on electronics wasn't fully realized until 2007. Traction control and the like started to become important in 2006 but it wasn't until the 800s when they became as important as they are today. In my opinion, the electronics deserve the credit for smashing lap records, not the 800cc formula.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 12 2010, 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It isn't a production based series so who cares? The point is to achieve the quickest lap of any motorcycle on earth. The 800 is the quickest bike ever designed.


you miss the point.... if the 990's had not of been cancelled and continued development up until now they would trounce the 800's. the 990's were nowhere near there development ceiling when cancelled.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 12 2010, 01:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>everyone except you it seems.. the point is to beat the other rider not to achieve the fastest lap time..this is GP racing not TT racing..

win on Sunday sell on Monday actually has a meaning...
YEah Grand Prix!!! Meaning Zee Grand Prize for the guy that wins not who is fastest but sometimes is.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Feb 11 2010, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well put Lex.


I think the factories may baulk at the idea solely because of the investment they've made in the 800s. The lap record point, in my opinion, is down to electronics. The importance placed on electronics wasn't fully realized until 2007. Traction control and the like started to become important in 2006 but it wasn't until the 800s when they became as important as they are today. In my opinion, the electronics deserve the credit for smashing lap records, not the 800cc formula.

...'n'a
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Feb 11 2010, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you miss the point.... if the 990's had not of been cancelled and continued development up until now they would trounce the 800's. the 990's were nowhere near there development ceiling when cancelled.
Exactly, the lap times of the 800's is not some kind of magic.They are pushing 40 less HP and weigh the same as the 990's. Its the electronics. Put the same electronics on a 990 and no 800 lap record would survive.
 
Is it as simple as electronics? When Suzuki first put the 800 motor in the 990 frame, Vermeulin was astonished that it was immediately faster around the circuit- later braking, quicker change of direction, higher corner speed seemed to be the difference. As the change was done on the same day, I believe the electronics were identical. More sophisticated electronics since then have further cut lap times.

The only way to control or virtually eliminate electronics is to have a spec ecu, but the manufacturers oppose that. Perhaps if enough fans lobby the team managers, they might change their minds.

I would love to see the bikes without traction control etc. I suspect the current finishing order would be very similar though. I think Stoner has the most to gain through such a change , but then I could be wrong.

Arguments that such technology filters down to road bikes could be argued against because ABS was removed from F1 cars (wasn,t it?) while virtually all road cars have it.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 11 2010, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>everyone except you it seems.. the point is to beat the other rider not to achieve the fastest lap time..this is GP racing not TT racing..

win on Sunday sell on Monday actually has a meaning...

81mm superbikes won't benefit anyone. It will be cool to have a MotoGP replica 1000cc in your garage, but unless they rev-limit the production bikes or they add 10 grand in titanium parts, they are just going to blow up more quickly. If you want a bike you can thrash 24/7/365 we need 1000cc engines with smaller bore figures (75mm and below). Same goes for 600s (below 67mm).

We've watched companies bankrupt themselves by building and racing big-bore oversquare engines. Why would you want one? Stat sheet?

The future of the 800s will rely entirely on fuel. If they raise fuel capacity, I will want to see what an unleashed 800cc engine can do. It should have a lot more power throughout the rev range and a bit more on top.

I would love to be optimistic about the prospect of more fuel, but the manufacturers have said point blank that they don't want to redesign the engines. IF THEY ARE TELLING THE TRUTH, adding fuel would require a complete engine redesign. However, if they don't increase fuel capacity, they will be blowing all of their money on fuel sipping electronics.

50/50 toss up whether they give the 800s more fuel or they simply give the 1000cc less fuel.

Of course this entire thing could be a giant red herring. Who's to say the MSMA aren't trying to extort money out of Dorna in order to write fair rules?
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That's what I would do if I were the soulless dirtbags at the MSMA. Make Dorna pay for an engine redesign.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Feb 12 2010, 05:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is it as simple as electronics? When Suzuki first put the 800 motor in the 990 frame, Vermeulin was astonished that it was immediately faster around the circuit- later braking, quicker change of direction, higher corner speed seemed to be the difference. As the change was done on the same day, I believe the electronics were identical. More sophisticated electronics since then have further cut lap times.

You are right, it's not all electronics. Everyone were surprised at how fast the bikes were into the corners and at the corner speed. The theories involved mainly less rotating mass, greatly reducing gyro forces on the bike.
In addition the theories also suggested that massive torque missing made the bikes much more controllable for TC, easier to regulate the output power. That made the existing electonics instantly much more usable, with further gains over the years of course.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 12 2010, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are right, it's not all electronics. Everyone were surprised at how fast the bikes were into the corners and at the corner speed. The theories involved mainly less rotating mass, greatly reducing gyro forces on the bike.
In addition the theories also suggested that massive torque missing made the bikes much more controllable for TC, easier to regulate the output power. That made the existing electonics instantly much more usable, with further gains over the years of course.

It is all about balance. The very first practise the 800 bikes were quicker. In no way did the electronics evolve overnight to make that much difference. The bike suddenly was in balance without the engine dominating. The evolution of the 800's is to the point now where it won't make the bikes quicker going back to a 990 engine so why bother? More "Chevy" to ride maybe but this is GP not NASCAR.
 
I don't agree that it was <u>just</u> electronics that dropped lap times.

Tyres have had a big role. BS surpassed Michelin in tyre development which allowed riders to push harder and go faster.

The biggest role in lap times are the riders. I believe Rossi was so much better than the previous crop of riders that he never had to try that hard to win and that is why we all loved the racing back then as Rossi would just play with them till there was 2 or 3 laps to go and then he would blow them away. Now there are 3 incrediably fast guys who have pushed Rossi to his limit and the style of racing has changed and the lap times have come down because of it. A perfect example of this was PI 2003 when Rossi got a 10sec penalty for passing under a yellow and all of a sudden he found another second a lap!
 

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