Spec MotoGP ECU available for 2013

BarryMachine said:

reminds me of when the boppers were crying ...... "stoner uses the most electronics!!"

WTF did they think Rossi was running !!

Crikey!! trip down memory lane!!



I had ( and worked on many ) engines with these!!

On the Marelli ...... most of them run this anyway don't they ( these days )? So long as Ezi doesn't limit the software "creativity" too much .... the effect should be equivalent to ( meh^[sup]infinity[/sup] ) ie. bugger all.

Mayhaps Ezi is just going to get them cheaper by buying a carton of ECU's and handing them out .... buy in bulk, always better.

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My thoughts too Baz, I thought marvel 4 was used by most aswell.

birdman said:

Yes Suzuki has made some great sportbikes, the R1 was groundbreaking etc. I was thinking more of the orginal 1992 900 Fireblade.................... the GSXR1100 was more a porky sports tourer at that time? http://www.simonreid...ade/history.htm

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Good point made - I forgot about the 900s... yeah, they were ridiculously light compared with even the very light FZR. What was it 60lbs or so?



The Suzamaha-Ade be strong with this'un

Geonerd said:

Here's Magneti Marelli's top of the line unit... The thing is vastly powerful, a computer in a box with all manner of I/O and logging features. The system appears to be completely programmable, making adding features such as anti-wheelie relatively simple. Write some code, re-compile, and flash the memory. Done.



Stipulating that all teams run the same black box is one thing, but demanding that all teams run the same basic program or library modules is quite another. This would effectively limit the teams to fine-tuning the data found in tables and function coefficients.



At the moment it seems quite unclear just how far Ezzy wants to push this issue.

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I can't understand the issue - this isn't a spec ECU, it is a top-line ECU that Dorna have negotiated with MM to bring to teams that want it, along with technical support and setup, at a very affordable price. Instead of teams having to hire data specialists and develop everything themselves, they are getting that sort of support at a knock-down price. It is part of Dorna's support package for CRT teams, just as they have paid for riders, bikes, etc. in the past.



This is to help the lesser teams compete, not to dumb-down the factories.

Zootalaws said:

I can't understand the issue - this isn't a spec ECU, it is a top-line ECU that Dorna have negotiated with MM to bring to teams that want it, along with technical support and setup, at a very affordable price. Instead of teams having to hire data specialists and develop everything themselves, they are getting that sort of support at a knock-down price. It is part of Dorna's support package for CRT teams, just as they have paid for riders, bikes, etc. in the past.



This is to help the lesser teams compete, not to dumb-down the factories.

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The debate is about whether it is a precursor to a spec ecu in 2014, which is what ezy has said he wants, although he seems to be in a state of some indecision just now, possibly because honda +/- yamaha disapprove; see motomatters.

The subject is 'Spec ECU available for 2013' - that was the discussion I was having.



I don't think Dorna wants to dictate spec ECUs if they can find an affordable solution that delivers competitive racing.

Zootalaws said:

The subject is 'Spec ECU available for 2013' - that was the discussion I was having.



I don't think Dorna wants to dictate spec ECUs if they can find an affordable solution that delivers competitive racing.

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Sure, absolutely a fine idea to make a top level ecu available for the crt bikes.



However, maybe he is finagling, but ezy has straight out said he wants a rev limit and a spec ecu for 2014, with honda and yamaha apparently objecting to at least the spec ecu, and hence the tech regs and development of bikes for 2014 up in the air. Perhaps he will settle for one or the other. As I have said, I don't necessarily object, they have to find some way to limit the expense and technological barriers to competition, whether a spec ecu is the way to go I don't know. I think getting rid of the track position aware engine management definitely and probably some other rider aids like launch control and anti-wheelie would be a good idea. One of our engineer members said early in the 800 formula when the electronics started to become prominent that getting rid of the ride by wire throttle would stop many things; I don't know whether it would be feasible to do that now at this remove. One obvious problem is the level of technology that is now on the superbikes.

I think Ezpeleta likes to make noise and see what rock moves. What he really wants is better competition, not the same three riders being the only ones on the podium all year.



As we have seen, the really fast boys turn down a lot of the rider aids because it slows them down... I don't know that there is a need to ban them.



The lower-echelon teams have stated that the big expense is electronics - not buying them, they are relatively cheap - the programming and management of them and the data acquisition/analysis.



If Ezpeleta's new ECU means that the lower teams are better able to compete without going broke, it's a good move in my book.



This is the first season of CRTs and we have seen two riders mixing it with the factory bikes. It will only get better. Admittedly they have a fuel and engine advantage, but they also have a disadvantage in not being HRC with their deep pockets.



I am looking forward to seeing what happens next year (after the results of this one, of course )

Seems Ezy isn't the spawn of the devil after all...





http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/184383/1/dorna_boss_ezpeleta_buys_marco_simoncelli_replica.html

Zootalaws said:

I can't understand the issue - this isn't a spec ECU, it is a top-line ECU that Dorna have negotiated with MM to bring to teams that want it, along with technical support and setup, at a very affordable price. Instead of teams having to hire data specialists and develop everything themselves, they are getting that sort of support at a knock-down price. It is part of Dorna's support package for CRT teams, just as they have paid for riders, bikes, etc. in the past.



This is to help the lesser teams compete, not to dumb-down the factories.

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IMO, the actual hardware chosen is almost irrelevant. The rule's real impact will depend on how much custom code the team are allowed to write. If the factories are forced to use the same generic TC, anti-wheelie, etc. routines, they will most certainly be stupefied to one degree or another.

What part of 'this isn't a spec ecu' was unclear? It's a present from Carmelo for the less well-endowed.



And what rule? There isn't one - but we DO have the option of teams getting a free, state-of-the-art ECU and support to help them use it.



IF they do institute a standardised ECU (like F1 did) why do you think it is to dumb down the racing? It is to level the field, just like spec tyres were.



In F1 they did away with TC and launch control - only retaining anti-stall. They could do a similar thing in MotoGP, except then you would see a division between the riders that are walking and those on crutches.



The ones walking are the guys that don't need TC, 4 or 5 of them, the rest of the field have their own bed booked in the hospital truck.



A spec ECU doesn't necessarily portend a lessening of technology - just a levelling. No more fancy corner-by-corner mapping, for example. This would allow the poorer teams to compete on the same footing with the likes of HRC - no more electronics arms race, doesn't mean no more smart bombs - just that everyone has the same smarts.

Zootalaws said:

What part of 'this isn't a spec ecu' was unclear?

It's a present from Carmelo for the less well-endowed.



And what rule? There isn't one - but we DO have the option of teams getting a free, state-of-the-art ECU and support to help them use it.



IF they do institute a standardised ECU (like F1 did) why do you think it is to dumb down the racing? It is to level the field, just like spec tyres were.



In F1 they did away with TC and launch control - only retaining anti-stall. They could do a similar thing in MotoGP, except then you would see a division between the riders that are walking and those on crutches.



The ones walking are the guys that don't need TC, 4 or 5 of them, the rest of the field have their own bed booked in the hospital truck.



A spec ECU doesn't necessarily portend a lessening of technology - just a leveling. No more fancy corner-by-corner mapping, for example. This would allow the poorer teams to compete on the same footing with the likes of HRC - no more electronics arms race, doesn't mean no more smart bombs - just that everyone has the same smarts.

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...., dude. Take a deep breath...

Que? Not stressed in the least... not even shallow-breathing... we seem to be talking about two different things.



One is set in concrete - free top-spec ECU available for those teams that want it.



The other is vapour-ware - Dorna is considering bringing spec ECU's to the table for the next MSMA/IRTA meeting at Motegi.



Getting upset at something that isn't decided seems a waste of energy - I am more interested in how this new ECU will improve the performance of the existing teams and potential new competitors for 2013.



We have a situation right now where the factories are decrying the costs of racing - of which they themselves say half is spent on electronics. Dorna have engineered a solution to that by bringing a top-spec ECU for next season for those teams that want it. Honda have made noises that they will take their ball and go if that is forced on them - thereby making their whining about costs an empty argument. If that is the case, they aren't interested in better competition, only in being the top of the tree and will spend whatever they want to make that happen. The argument about a spec ECU stifling development is rubbish - they have the opportunity to use a top-spec ECU, it just isn't a Honda ECU. Ferrari made the same noises that Honda are when a spec ECU was announced in F1 and proceeded to blame it for their engine failures and other instances of DNF... now they are winning races.



We have seen that the introduction of a spec ECU into F1 made little difference to the overall spectacle - the faster, better-equipped, better funded teams are still winning races, some of the lesser teams have been given a boost by the levelling of tech (Force India, Lotus, Mercedes) and at the same time, this has allowed more talented drivers to shine as it is less about who has the smarter electronics package.



I don't see that the introduction of a spec ECU to GPs will be an different. The likes of De Puniet and Espargaro will be given a chance to be more competitive against what is, at this time, an electronics arms-race.



I just don't see a down-side to this - which is currently all speculative at any rate.



If as MA has said, Aprilia is bringing pressure to bear on teams to not use the MM unit, that is surely more important at this stage than whether a spec ECU will be forced on the teams in 2014?

Zootalaws said:

What part of 'this isn't a spec ecu' was unclear?

It's a present from Carmelo for the less well-endowed.



And what rule? There isn't one - but we DO have the option of teams getting a free, state-of-the-art ECU and support to help them use it.



IF they do institute a standardised ECU (like F1 did) why do you think it is to dumb down the racing? It is to level the field, just like spec tyres were.



In F1 they did away with TC and launch control - only retaining anti-stall. They could do a similar thing in MotoGP, except then you would see a division between the riders that are walking and those on crutches.



The ones walking are the guys that don't need TC, 4 or 5 of them, the rest of the field have their own bed booked in the hospital truck.



A spec ECU doesn't necessarily portend a lessening of technology - just a levelling. No more fancy corner-by-corner mapping, for example. This would allow the poorer teams to compete on the same footing with the likes of HRC - no more electronics arms race, doesn't mean no more smart bombs - just that everyone has the same smarts.

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Well put

Thanks.