DONE DEAL, Hayden rides Ducati next year

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 3 2009, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Double edged sword, but I think he didn't have many options. Ducati=Suzuki/Kawasaki
Nah, Ducati is serious about racing, for starters. They're certainly not as consistently successful as Honda and Yamaha, but they're committed enough that they can, at the very least, turn out really competitive rides some years. In the 990 years Capirossi had good years and bad years - whether you want to put that on him being inconsistent or on the bike being fiddly/inconsistent is up to you. Suzuki and Kawasaki, on the other hand were consistent(ly bad). Stoner's a special talent, able to mesh with the bike for whatever reason.

An inconsistent, finicky, bike that's competitive some years and marginal other years is a better ride than a consistently subpar ride. Obviously things have gotten worse at Ducati for people not named Stoner (development zeroing in on a bike that's more difficult?) but unlike the other 2 they have a history of fielding bike/rider packages that can run at the front of the field, even if somewhat sporadically. They've clearly taken wrong turns before (04, for example) but have at least been able to bounce back. If anything they might (historically) be overaggressive about trying new stuff out - that's not necessarily a bad thing when the current bike has issues. Also, with Casey's status at least slightly in question and people afraid of their bike, Ducati has more motivation (and opportunity) to follow any feedback from Hayden. There's always the (hopefully not realized) chance that Stoner doesn't come back or doesn't come back at full steam, and suddenly he's the number 1 rider on one of 3 makes to win a dry race in the 4 stroke era. Ducati has certainly demonstrated that they'll support the fast rider.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (levigarrett @ Sep 4 2009, 01:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So what?? There are only 4 riders of 18 capable of winning. Should we just scuttle the rest of the series? Perhaps they can have 4 bikes on the grid, you know just so we don't have to watch the back markers and such. If Nicky can capture an occasional podium while providing bike sales to Ducati he is achieving the desired outcome.

I don't think anyone other than one of the top four riders will challenge for the title. Same problem in F1, same problem in Indy cars, same problem in many many sports.

What's your point?
\\prob point is that duacti and all of the factory motogp teams are looking for race wins an world championships.

hayden isnt a person to do that for you.

should hayden be in motogp? yeah for sure, but not on a factory team, only on a satellite team, where if he pops his head in the top4 once a year, it would be a great acheivment.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ptk50 @ Sep 3 2009, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You NH lovers all have a couple of things in common - can't face reality - look at 07, 08, 09 he's certainly off the podium than he's on it - you can't count, but I'll be kind - he's moving to the front part of the mid-field. But no way is he part of the pointed end

There is no point Levi, other than to instigate a rebuttal from Nicky fans.......I think it's more fun to ignore those posts and watch for them to prod some more without any response. It's like the guy at the party who tells a horrible ....... joke and no one laughs, the he tells the joke 2-3 more times to make sure people actually heard the lame joke!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry for Hayden

On a side note. I wonder if Edwards, with all his reports about horsepower being down cause of the engine rules, is trying to make the bike appear less juicy for Spies.

Hayden has been making progress (although slow) all year, now he isn't too far from where he was with Honda. He's doing pretty well to stay on a factory bike given his results, but its good to have him stick around.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Sep 3 2009, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden has been making progress (although slow) all year, now he isn't too far from where he was with Honda. He's doing pretty well to stay on a factory bike given his results, but its good to have him stick around.

I agree with Tom+ I`m a Nicky fan.

Has anyone else noticed that since before qualifying at Indy Suppo has been strangely quiet with no remarks or interviews. Seems all of the press releases have been from someone other than Suppo. TXToast on Crash made the same observation. Did Ducati brass gag him or something?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Sep 3 2009, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think Nicky has ever been in doubt at Ducati, really.
I'm convinced the chase after Lorenzo was meant to replace Stoner. We will probably never know what is happening between Stoner and Ducati, but something is definitely happening that isn't just health or training related, imo

Nicky at Ducati was not in doubt from Ducati's standpoint---what was in doubt was whether they were going to sign him at Marlboro or try to string him along until his only factory ride was at Xerox Ducati.

As far as Ducati's new bike for 2010, it seems likely. It appears as though Ducati's performance advantage has been entirely erased by the control tire and by engine work at Yamaha and Honda. Anyone who is looking for clues about the new emergence of a new bike should read motogpmatters. Pedrosa comments on some new ideas and directions that Ducati used to entice him away from Honda. Pedrosa ultimately decided that he did not want to be developing a bike going into the 2010 season. His remarks make is relatively clear that he is comparing Ducati's off season plans to Honda's off season plans going into the 2008 season.

I think Ducati have got something pretty major in the works. I think they are getting ready to ditch Desmo and move to pneumatics. I have no evidence, it just seems like the next logical progression. They've already ditched all of their other signature Ducati design elements.

It's a better deal for Ducati than it is for Hayden, although it's pretty close to a win/win scenario. No established rider wants to ride the Ducati because of how peculiar it is. Hayden has done quite a bit of work to change that, he's gone from consistent 13ths to consistent 5th-8th range in the span of six months. There were rumors of Hayden going to Tech 3, which would have given him a better chance to claim podiums consistently than he's had with Ducati thus far. Just look at Edwards's finishes all year. But I think it will pay off for Hayden. Like michael said, Ducati are inconsistent with their results but their desire has never been questioned and these down seasons (2004, 2005) have resulted in success in the past (2006, 2007). It will just take time, something that Hayden and Ducati have been putting in all season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GatorDuc @ Sep 3 2009, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is no point Levi, other than to instigate a rebuttal from Nicky fans.......I think it's more fun to ignore those posts and watch for them to prod some more without any response. It's like the guy at the party who tells a horrible ....... joke and no one laughs, the he tells the joke 2-3 more times to make sure people actually heard the lame joke!
It's also fun to add in every so often that Nicky Hayden won the 2006 MotoGP World Championship. A lot of people forget that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Sep 3 2009, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>On a side note. I wonder if Edwards, with all his reports about horsepower being down cause of the engine rules, is trying to make the bike appear less juicy for Spies.
I wouldn't put it past him. As good of a guy as he seems to be, he'll do anything to stay in MotoGP.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Sep 3 2009, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Has anyone else noticed that since before qualifying at Indy Suppo has been strangely quiet with no remarks or interviews. Seems all of the press releases have been from someone other than Suppo. TXToast on Crash made the same observation. Did Ducati brass gag him or something?
I would hope so, he hasn't done anything good for Ducati in quite some time. Frankly, I'm surprised he hasn't been sacked. He got lucky with Stoner and other than that has made poor decision after poor decision. I'd like to see someone from the Superbike side of things come over to Ducati Marlboro.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 3 2009, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Ducati have got something pretty major in the works. I think they are getting ready to ditch Desmo and move to pneumatics. I have no evidence, it just seems like the next logical progression. They've already ditched all of their other signature Ducati design elements.

If this is the case then Nicky needs to prepare himself for a rough 2010 season unless of course they get it right right out of the box. Honda still doesn't have thier pneumo right and it took Yamaha a season and a gazzilion dolallrs to develope theirs.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Sep 3 2009, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Has anyone else noticed that since before qualifying at Indy Suppo has been strangely quiet with no remarks or interviews. Seems all of the press releases have been from someone other than Suppo. TXToast on Crash made the same observation. Did Ducati brass gag him or something?

And during qualifying, he was probably on the phone with the brass consistently......
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 3 2009, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Anyone who is looking for clues about the new emergence of a new bike should read motogpmatters. Pedrosa comments on some new ideas and directions that Ducati used to entice him away from Honda. Pedrosa ultimately decided that he did not want to be developing a bike going into the 2010 season. His remarks make is relatively clear that he is comparing Ducati's off season plans to Honda's off season plans going into the 2008 season.

I think Ducati have got something pretty major in the works. I think they are getting ready to ditch Desmo and move to pneumatics. I have no evidence, it just seems like the next logical progression. They've already ditched all of their other signature Ducati design elements.
I didn't really piece it together when I was reading what Pedrosa had to say but it makes sense. Would the switch to pneumatics really alter the issues Ducati is having? Sorry if it's a dumb question, my engineering IQ is quite low. It would make sense that pneumo would make it easier to get the power than from desmo, so I suppose that is a cost and energy saving measure, but I don't see power as their primary issue at the moment. Like I said, my engineering IQ is quite low. I think you're right about some major changes though, and pneumatics might very well be in the cards, but I would think there may be some major changes to chassis for 2010. Just a guess.

Yeah, I noticed that nothing's come out of Suppo since the obligatory (and meaningless) "we expect Casey back in full health" comment. Has anything meaningful from him come out since his "Hayden's results are disappointing?" interview?

One day you have Suppo saying "Nicky's results are disappointing, he is below our expectations of him," and a couple of days later Preziosi comes out with:
“I want to congratulate Nicky because even in difficult times he has always believed in Ducati and he has never given up, working hard and staying focused,” said Preziosi. “Without his feedback we would have never been able to work out a set-up to suit him and it is in this area, as well as in performance, where a rider makes the difference! I also want to thank Vitto [Guareschi, test rider] and all the guys at Ducati Corse, who have worked like Nicky - never losing heart."

and now Dominicalli
"“The confirmation of Nicky is the right reward to a rider who has shown to perfectly embody the frame of mind that characterizes Ducati - Passion, Determination and Commitment.”

Interesting shift over the course of a week or so. Comments coming from higher and higher up the chain of command. I wonder if Suppo's habit of publicly shitting on his riders is getting old?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DRILL @ Sep 3 2009, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I`m a Nicky fan.
Welcome back Drill.

So it sounds like Nick will get to develop another pneumo then shown the door next year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Sep 3 2009, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So it sounds like Nick will get to develop another pneumo then shown the door next year.
Nicky's motogp career has been one of frustration, yet has managed to prove them wrong over and over. They give him .... and he makes fertilizer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Sep 3 2009, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So it sounds like Nick will get to develop another pneumo then shown the door next year.

The new engine rule is going to make it very tough on teams that want to devekope a new engine.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Sep 3 2009, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So it sounds like Nick will get to develop another pneumo then shown the door next year.
That could depend on how right Ducati get it out of the box. If they get it right from the get-go or randomly move in a direction that favors Hayden over Stoner (they do have a history of sometimes doing really well with new designs, and of moving away from what suited their main rider) things could end up going in about any direction. Even if he gets shown the door, if the season goes well it could easily open another (or be a complete disaster and leave him with few options, for that matter). Ducati's about the most random, unpredictable bike and team in the paddock.