it's hard to say , at the time of the crash i thought he did but now im wondering if he did the oppisit . he may have started to relax a bit and momentarily lost concentration.
the facts are rossi was catching him. he had gained .3 of a sec then stoner crashed. but did stoner know this, had he seen that on a pit board before he crashed ?
i heard he had been having troubles with that corner all weekend so it may just have been that !
the facts are rossi was catching him. he had gained .3 of a sec then stoner crashed. but did stoner know this, had he seen that on a pit board before he crashed ?
i heard he had been having troubles with that corner all weekend so it may just have been that !
He was probably pushing too hard and didnt know his limit because TC lulled him into a false sense of security....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 19 2008, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>it's hard to say , at the time of the crash i thought he did but now im wondering if he did the oppisit . he may have started to relax a bit and momentarily lost concentration.
the facts are rossi was catching him. he had gained .3 of a sec then stoner crashed. but did stoner know this, had he seen that on a pit board before he crashed ?
i heard he had been having troubles with that corner all weekend so it may just have been that !
yeah maybe he was struggling with that corner but i dont think he would have relaxed at anytime during that race after laguna seca...
the facts are rossi was catching him. he had gained .3 of a sec then stoner crashed. but did stoner know this, had he seen that on a pit board before he crashed ?
i heard he had been having troubles with that corner all weekend so it may just have been that !
yeah maybe he was struggling with that corner but i dont think he would have relaxed at anytime during that race after laguna seca...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 19 2008, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How are people defning the difference between chocking, and just pushing too hard?
if he was pushing too hard because vale was applying the pressure then i guess it could be classed as the same thing....
if he was pushing too hard because vale was applying the pressure then i guess it could be classed as the same thing....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Aug 19 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
and i'm sure someone will rise to the bait...
dunno what you mean Al, It's a serious discussion
and i'm sure someone will rise to the bait...
dunno what you mean Al, It's a serious discussion
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Val_46 @ Aug 19 2008, 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>dunno what you mean Al, It's a serious discussion
you know full well what this thread will degenerate into especially because of how it is worded..s'all i'm saying.
you know full well what this thread will degenerate into especially because of how it is worded..s'all i'm saying.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 19 2008, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The only one choking on something is that guy with the yellow hat in the Rossi garage.
yeah choking with laughter cos they all no how this season will end now
yeah choking with laughter cos they all no how this season will end now
I suppose that it all depends on your definition of choke.
To me a choke is Greg Norman shooting an 82 in the last round of the US Masters when leading, not dropping a bike during a race. Alternately if your definition is that he dropped the bike due to pushing to hard to stay in front of VR, then I assume yes he may have choked.
To me however he did anything but choke. He was doing what he (realistically) needed to do and that was to beat VR on the track to gain points back.
CS like most here does not expect VR to have issues or crash (he has had his one bad round per year), so what CS had to do was beat him on the track, and to do that he had to ride damn hard. Unfortunately when you ride these bikes to their limits eventually your number comes up and CS' did on Sunday.
In the sport, everyone crashes at times and rarely if ever would they truly be classed as a choke (and yes that does include VR 2006) as this is a sport that tends to produce the unexpected at times.
Don't forget that CS had gone a great number of race miles without a race crash (yes there was Laguna but that was nothing) and eventually it had to happen. Again though and to his credit he did remount and try to continue (which is becoming a common trait in todays MotoGP thankfully) so I do not think he chokes in any way.
Actually (and I think Roger alluded to this in another thread), his demeanor on return to the pits indicated a person who appeared comfortable with what happened (strangely actually). Whilst some may see that as confirmation of a choke, I actually see it as relief that he can now just race which is what he does best.
Oops sorry, did get away a bit.
Garry
To me a choke is Greg Norman shooting an 82 in the last round of the US Masters when leading, not dropping a bike during a race. Alternately if your definition is that he dropped the bike due to pushing to hard to stay in front of VR, then I assume yes he may have choked.
To me however he did anything but choke. He was doing what he (realistically) needed to do and that was to beat VR on the track to gain points back.
CS like most here does not expect VR to have issues or crash (he has had his one bad round per year), so what CS had to do was beat him on the track, and to do that he had to ride damn hard. Unfortunately when you ride these bikes to their limits eventually your number comes up and CS' did on Sunday.
In the sport, everyone crashes at times and rarely if ever would they truly be classed as a choke (and yes that does include VR 2006) as this is a sport that tends to produce the unexpected at times.
Don't forget that CS had gone a great number of race miles without a race crash (yes there was Laguna but that was nothing) and eventually it had to happen. Again though and to his credit he did remount and try to continue (which is becoming a common trait in todays MotoGP thankfully) so I do not think he chokes in any way.
Actually (and I think Roger alluded to this in another thread), his demeanor on return to the pits indicated a person who appeared comfortable with what happened (strangely actually). Whilst some may see that as confirmation of a choke, I actually see it as relief that he can now just race which is what he does best.
Oops sorry, did get away a bit.
Garry
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mekizo @ Aug 19 2008, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He was probably pushing too hard and didnt know his limit because TC lulled him into a false sense of security....
Here's a quick tip: TC doesn't control front end slides. TC is associated with the application of power to the rear wheel.
Stop writing nonsense.
Here's a quick tip: TC doesn't control front end slides. TC is associated with the application of power to the rear wheel.
Stop writing nonsense.
Valentino seems to think so. Rossi said that stoner was trying to make a 1:56.0 and dragging his foot pegs, pushing too hard so that he wouldn't have to battle for the win.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Aug 19 2008, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Valentino seems to think so. Rossi said that stoner was trying to make a 1:56.0 and dragging his foot pegs, pushing too hard so that he wouldn't have to battle for the win.
Doohan implied the same
Mick Doohan, who was working as co-announcer for CBS TV, thought it was because the pressure was mounting.
Doohan implied the same
Mick Doohan, who was working as co-announcer for CBS TV, thought it was because the pressure was mounting.
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the evidence is in the soup
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Aug 19 2008, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Here's a quick tip: TC doesn't control front end slides. TC is associated with the application of power to the rear wheel.
Stop writing nonsense.
You are absolutly right, however the names are flying right now and with the elecronically controlled slipperclutch even front end slides can be induced by electronics. Weight transfer has everyting to do with front end grip and a sudden glitch in the slipper clutch could cause to much weight being trensferred to the front. Not that I think that's what happened but it's fully possible. The TC is right now about to be integrated into a complete driver aid package and soon it will not be possible to distingush between them as some of the next big steps will be to make them work together further improving grip and stability.
As an example of what the slipper cluthc can do, Edwards had the surprice of his life this winter as he went down on the straight. The bike simply spat him off under braking. He himself considered it somewhat of a record
Stop writing nonsense.
You are absolutly right, however the names are flying right now and with the elecronically controlled slipperclutch even front end slides can be induced by electronics. Weight transfer has everyting to do with front end grip and a sudden glitch in the slipper clutch could cause to much weight being trensferred to the front. Not that I think that's what happened but it's fully possible. The TC is right now about to be integrated into a complete driver aid package and soon it will not be possible to distingush between them as some of the next big steps will be to make them work together further improving grip and stability.
As an example of what the slipper cluthc can do, Edwards had the surprice of his life this winter as he went down on the straight. The bike simply spat him off under braking. He himself considered it somewhat of a record
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Considering he has laid it down 2 races in a row with a faster bike,i would say yes,he is choking.When you are favored in sports and lose,its a choke.Same as 2 years ago,Rossi choked in the last race.Chocking is normal as long as you dont make a habit of it year after year.Happens to everyone.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Aug 19 2008, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Considering he has laid it down 2 races in a row with a faster bike,i would say yes,he is choking.When you are favored in sports and lose,its a choke.Same as 2 years ago,Rossi choked in the last race.Chocking is normal as long as you dont make a habit of it year after year.Happens to everyone.
agreed. it's not a bad thing........................unless you're CS
agreed. it's not a bad thing........................unless you're CS
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