Joined Nov 2012
997 Posts | 1K+
Dall'Igna to Ducati as Director of Corse
- Thread starter J4rn0
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- corse dall'igna director ducati
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Joined Nov 2012
997 Posts | 1K+
BarryMachine
If he could turn around the Ducati team in two years, I would think that would be quite fast going.
If he could turn around the Ducati team in two years, I would think that would be quite fast going.
AnnoyingTwit
I'm not sure Ducati can wait 2 years. Progress needs to be seen on the race track & fairly quickly. I hope they get their .... together.
I'm not sure Ducati can wait 2 years. Progress needs to be seen on the race track & fairly quickly. I hope they get their .... together.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Frizzle
Its been suggested that Honda and Yama have expressed a need for an actual competition resulting in nods here and there to assist Ducati. Even if this were true I don't see Honda and Yamaha getting any slower, unless we have reached a point where they freeze development while Ducati are in effect allowed to catch up (and I'm laughing because I can already see people rolling their eyes at this "conspiracy theory" which I will say in my defense, I'm not the one who came up with it, but actually I first read about it from a 'paddock insider', please don't ask me to go back and find the reference).
Its been suggested that Honda and Yama have expressed a need for an actual competition resulting in nods here and there to assist Ducati. Even if this were true I don't see Honda and Yamaha getting any slower, unless we have reached a point where they freeze development while Ducati are in effect allowed to catch up (and I'm laughing because I can already see people rolling their eyes at this "conspiracy theory" which I will say in my defense, I'm not the one who came up with it, but actually I first read about it from a 'paddock insider', please don't ask me to go back and find the reference).
Joined Aug 2008
6K Posts | 748+
Thailand
If you read and listen enough you will find that every crackpot idea and scenario has been "suggested" somewhere! As Krops has pointed out the paddock has no shortage of misinformation and crackpot rumors... Honda, for one have never displayed ANY need for an actual competition.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Mick D
Well Mick, I didn't want to say it, as its a bit of a sore issue at the moment, but it was from Kropo where I got this 'conspiracy'. He mentioned once that a certain journalist was allowed to mill about the HRC garage, with the covering over the RCV exposed enough for said paddock insider to take a pic, the pic being a message to Ducati.
Well Mick, I didn't want to say it, as its a bit of a sore issue at the moment, but it was from Kropo where I got this 'conspiracy'. He mentioned once that a certain journalist was allowed to mill about the HRC garage, with the covering over the RCV exposed enough for said paddock insider to take a pic, the pic being a message to Ducati.
Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
Jumkie
I've harped on this before.
The insider was Spalding.
There was NO PHOTO of the Honda engine demonstrating that it is 90degrees. Krop keeps repeating the tale, but if you find the article, you'll see that the 'spy photo' shows a 3/4 rear view of the RCV in which the rear head is visible. This photo, according to Krap, allowed Spalders to 'bully' Nakamoto into admitting the Honda was 90deg. The point of which was to reinforce the 'insider' status of Journos, who mainly are fed by PR depts.
Shuhei announced that the Honda was 90 degrees.
Spalders then published a 2 page spread with zero real photo evidence.
Hidden down in the corner of which was a official statement from Shuhei. But don't look there, marvel at the power of the 'insider' and his camera.
But back to the point, I reckon Sloth's characterisation of the 'reveal' is closest to HRC's reasoning.
I've harped on this before.
The insider was Spalding.
There was NO PHOTO of the Honda engine demonstrating that it is 90degrees. Krop keeps repeating the tale, but if you find the article, you'll see that the 'spy photo' shows a 3/4 rear view of the RCV in which the rear head is visible. This photo, according to Krap, allowed Spalders to 'bully' Nakamoto into admitting the Honda was 90deg. The point of which was to reinforce the 'insider' status of Journos, who mainly are fed by PR depts.
Shuhei announced that the Honda was 90 degrees.
Spalders then published a 2 page spread with zero real photo evidence.
Hidden down in the corner of which was a official statement from Shuhei. But don't look there, marvel at the power of the 'insider' and his camera.
But back to the point, I reckon Sloth's characterisation of the 'reveal' is closest to HRC's reasoning.
baturro
They would have been but Ducati wouldn't do what JB wanted. The twin spar frame was the B plan when Ducati flat refused to break with tradition and scrap the 90 L shaped engine. When JB went to ducati he made the statement " we can fix this bike in 80 seconds". Sadly the rest of his comments wasn't as widely reported. The 80 seconds was to wheel the ducati over to the skip and throw it in. Jb and Rossi requested Ducati build a more conventional design engine they could build a working chassis around. A V4 like the honda or an inline 4 like the yam. Ducati said no so all jb could do was tinker and try and make the best of what they had. The L shaped engine is a flawed concept at this level of racing because of the trail angle needed to clear the front cylinders. This large trail will make the bike hard to steer, a bit like a cruiser style bike. To try and counter this they reduced the rake. This makes the bike unstable which is made worse under braking due to the telescopic forks reducing rake under compression.
Now Ducati are owned by Audi and the Aprilia guy is going to head up the project there maybe hope. Aprilia were well known for their fantastic 60 v twin. Now a 60 v4 would be a nice compact engine to build a chassis around imo.
They would have been but Ducati wouldn't do what JB wanted. The twin spar frame was the B plan when Ducati flat refused to break with tradition and scrap the 90 L shaped engine. When JB went to ducati he made the statement " we can fix this bike in 80 seconds". Sadly the rest of his comments wasn't as widely reported. The 80 seconds was to wheel the ducati over to the skip and throw it in. Jb and Rossi requested Ducati build a more conventional design engine they could build a working chassis around. A V4 like the honda or an inline 4 like the yam. Ducati said no so all jb could do was tinker and try and make the best of what they had. The L shaped engine is a flawed concept at this level of racing because of the trail angle needed to clear the front cylinders. This large trail will make the bike hard to steer, a bit like a cruiser style bike. To try and counter this they reduced the rake. This makes the bike unstable which is made worse under braking due to the telescopic forks reducing rake under compression.
Now Ducati are owned by Audi and the Aprilia guy is going to head up the project there maybe hope. Aprilia were well known for their fantastic 60 v twin. Now a 60 v4 would be a nice compact engine to build a chassis around imo.
Joined Apr 2011
900 Posts | 4+
somewhere else
Dr No
David actually said on here that he had seen an HRC bike himself with the covers off and it looked like a 90 degree V, well before Spalding's "revelation". I agree that it is unlikely Nakamoto could be bullied into anything, and likely that he chose to reveal the configuration of the engine. Even the Japanese couldn't keep such a thing secret forever anyway you wouldn't think, even if the Honda factory people maintained silence there are non-core personnel such as ex-riders etc who would know and couldn't be compelled to secrecy in all circumstances.
David actually said on here that he had seen an HRC bike himself with the covers off and it looked like a 90 degree V, well before Spalding's "revelation". I agree that it is unlikely Nakamoto could be bullied into anything, and likely that he chose to reveal the configuration of the engine. Even the Japanese couldn't keep such a thing secret forever anyway you wouldn't think, even if the Honda factory people maintained silence there are non-core personnel such as ex-riders etc who would know and couldn't be compelled to secrecy in all circumstances.
Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
I've seen a RCV with the fairing lower off. From the side. Couldn't even see the front head properly, nevermind pick the angles between the head/cylinder joint with the furtive glances I was throwing it.
Good point about the secrecy, but I doubt the riders and those exposed to this stuff care what goes on in boards like this. No doubt there's disclosure clauses amongst employees, but I'd wager that It'd just be a case of: Honda never talk about their engine except for official briefings...so I'm not going to start (contract or not) revealing anything.
I understand why information has to be revealed in this way. I've written of it before: if you ever published/syndicated a picture of an RCV that Honda didn't want seen, you'd kiss goodbye to any futher access to HRC. So the likes of Spalding and Krop need to exercise....discretion in what they publish, if they wish to stay in the tent. And the tent is where they earn their living. The writing of Spalding and Krop towers over that of gossipy fanbois like MScott (whose writings I try to avoid) so they get held to a higher standard. By me, anyway.
Good point about the secrecy, but I doubt the riders and those exposed to this stuff care what goes on in boards like this. No doubt there's disclosure clauses amongst employees, but I'd wager that It'd just be a case of: Honda never talk about their engine except for official briefings...so I'm not going to start (contract or not) revealing anything.
I understand why information has to be revealed in this way. I've written of it before: if you ever published/syndicated a picture of an RCV that Honda didn't want seen, you'd kiss goodbye to any futher access to HRC. So the likes of Spalding and Krop need to exercise....discretion in what they publish, if they wish to stay in the tent. And the tent is where they earn their living. The writing of Spalding and Krop towers over that of gossipy fanbois like MScott (whose writings I try to avoid) so they get held to a higher standard. By me, anyway.
Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
Riiiiiiight.
So what's all this from Emmett then?
http://powerslide.net/forum/index.php?/topic/15289-hondas-rc213v-engine/page-9
And go to the article in question (finally found it again)
http://www.moto.it//static/upl/sol/solomoto-honda-v90.pdf
These are the photos that provide "proof". Just look at that 90.
So what's all this from Emmett then?
http://powerslide.net/forum/index.php?/topic/15289-hondas-rc213v-engine/page-9
And go to the article in question (finally found it again)
http://www.moto.it//static/upl/sol/solomoto-honda-v90.pdf
These are the photos that provide "proof". Just look at that 90.
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