Cal Crutchlow???? WTF

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 <span style="font-size:14px;Pedro is a prune. Pedro the Prune. look into the motogp toilet<span style="font-size:14px; and know that he did a good job, but the time for prunes is over so just press flush because<span style="font-size:14px; the people who walk out nursing a poo go to the psych unit. 


 


<span style="font-size:14px;Therefore all Dani fans are mentally unstable. 


 


<span style="font-size:14px;It would also be fair if such a thing existed to let someone else have a crack at a seat he filled for 8 years without a title. Suzuki, Kawasaki and Ducati unloaded their non title riders quicker than that and they didn't have a snowflake's<span style="font-size:14px; chance in hell of actually winning a title. 


 


<span style="font-size:14px;Honda had 8 good chances and Dani the Prune dropped every one of them in the ........ I just don't get prune loyalty. 

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HRC will not get rid of Pedrosa. Why would they? He is the perfect wingman for their new star Marquez.


 


Pedrosa is fast enough to take points off Lorenzo regularly. He isn't overly aggressive and is unlikely to battle Marquez too hard. He never has a bad word to say about HRC or Repsol. He has many fans in Spain and many back at the factory. He has never really talked about leaving Honda. On the right day at the right track, he can be faster than anyone. If Marquez ..... up, Pedrosa will remain a title contender. Actually, he is a contender anyway.


 


Compare all of that to Crutchlow and you basically end up with the exact rider HRC don't want right now.

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349817" data-author="BJ.C

Pedrosa had a great season last year - 2 races in to the new season when both of the two opening tracks are a bit iffy, is a bit too soon to be calling for his retirement.
 
If HRC had employed a lesser rider than Stoner, Pedrosa would have won the WC in 2012 - hands down. He was beaten by the points his team-mate took off him, he certainly won the head-to-head with Jorge.

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I hope you guys are joking?


 


Here is Jumkie saying , at every opportunity, that Hayden is the best rider in his world, and the guy has 2? 3? race wins!!


 


Pedrosa, even though he has no WC's has over 20 wins in the premier class. He is always up near the front and most importantly ....... great to watch.


 


Even if he never wins a title he's been top 2/3 for many a year, take him away and what you are left with is just crappier.


 


Imagine a wc full of just riders the likes of the mid packers. We'd have Rossi in front always and Hayden following him around.


 


Pedrosa may never win a title, but he's waaaaaaayyyyy better than the remaining 20 or so riders.


 


Shwantz is a ........, he can't help himself.

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 Yes, I agree, Pedrosa had a great season last year. But I think it's bull to argue about coulda-woulda-shoulda. Pedrosa did no loose the WC because he had a strong teammate. Pedrosa did not win the head-to-head with Jorge. That's nonsense. 

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349866" data-author="BJ.C

Pedrosa 7 wins, Jorge 6 wins. That makes it a win head-to-head for Pedrosa. I don't know how else you could measure it.

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349866" data-author="BJ.C

I wasn't doing a coulda-shoulda-woulda, but with a lesser team-mate, the chance was there for a resurgent Pedrosa to take more points.
 
Pedrosa won races 8, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 18
Stoner won races 2, 3, 7, 10, 17.
Lorenzo won races 1, 4, 5, 6, 9, 13.
 
So, from the time the Honda came good for Dani, Lorenzo won one race. The USA and AUS points were taken by Stoner.

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349875" data-author="Kronikinsomniak

There are supposedly no team orders in MotoGP which is why Pedro will never be replaced as long as he runs a strong 2nd or 3rd. He is the perfect pseudo team order rider, never quite good enough to win it all but great for taking points off the 2nd & 3rd place rider to allow HRC's #1 seat a shot at the world title. 
 
Pedro is an awesome rider but you have to ask how much is that due to being on a factory honda all his career and his massive weight advantage. The guy is a midget!

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stiefel said:

How much is Pedro loosing out because he can't break as hard as the bigger guys?

How much of his inability to launch a proper counterattack afte being passed is down to that, takin into account that he was a good fighter in the lower classes?

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Physics. Should make zero difference. His light weight produces less momentum. A similar question can be asked, how deeper into the brakes can he go given his light weight? Less weight to stop. U cant definitively answer (otherwise u would have told us); u could expect an answer to ur question, otherwise, the opposite can be suggested just as easily to make an empty point. Again, likely zero. Irrelevant. How much 'heavier' is Marquez? He was able to launch a counter attack to Rossi in Qatar. If u look back, that was due to Marc braking more successfully into turn one, where VR (the bigger rider) was not. I think Pedro isnt known for counter attacks because he doesnt like scraps. Nothing to to with his small size, all to do with his racecraft. Speaking of "launch". This dude's size allows him to qual anywhere in the first 3 rows and get a guaranteed hole shot. A massive advantage.

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Physics?

While I'm still in a nerdy mood (and am on a laptop with Excel instead of stupid phone) let's have a look at braking.

 

Let's assume DP = 60kg kitted up and VR = 80kg kitted up.

Let's assume both bikes are 175 kg (some fuel on board).

Let's assume they're both braking from 320 down to 80kph.

The amount of kinetic energy (not momentum) DP's brakes have to convert to heat is: 522745J

The amount of kinetic energy (not momentum) DP's brakes have to convert to heat is: 567234J

 

The difference in weight between DP and VR is: 1/3rd

The difference in energy is 8.5%

 

So the 'optimal' braking advantage ain't that big as the wieght difference, but 8.5% is pretty significant. But it would be less than that in the real world.

And then you need to consider that these things are limited by weight transfer (pulling a stoppie) not traction (locking up) so the ability for a heavier, longer armed VR to influence weight transfer by getting more weight over the back wheel under brakes is going to chew up even more of that theoretical advantage.

 

[All that calculating and dipshit here could have just worked out the %age difference between the bike/rider weights...would have given the same 8.5....but at least the numbers look "impressive"]

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Ah physics.  Yes my friend, its fun to make a few calculations, eh.  My point to Stiefel, which I'm not sure you picked-up on (I say not sure because your post starts off making a few ‘simple’ calculations, but the conclusion then seems to walk it back...and a bit of subtle humor?) Physics is much more complicated than we think, or at least it is for my ........  For ..... and giggles, compare Pedro to Marquez.  Then your calculations won't seem so "impressive".  I read an article somewhere, can't remember where, somebody calculated the "possible "advantages & disadvantages" a lighter rider might enjoy, and the article was inconclusive.  Which is exactly what I had expected, but is also counter intuitive.  That is, because we would naturally think a small rider gets certain advantages, after all, we’ve been led to believe ‘power to rate ratios’ and straight line speed (measured as simple trap speed) is a “fundamental of racing”, right Rob, (sorry, inside joke).  

 

You have isolated only one factor of the process of stopping (actually, we are attempted to describe a change in inertia, where your calculation was more akin to a car breaking with a driver inside, rather than a motorcycle), but there is so much more! Yet what have we observed on the track thus far, the reality is, on the track, Marc was able to beat Pedro so far twice, and VR once.  When it came to a braking duel, (Qatar) it appears Marc was able to get his bike stopped more effectively than Rossi, the bigger man.  When Rossi and Sic came out and spoke of Pedro's weight advantage (a few years ago), tickling the ear of the League to address this weight issue, I said it was .........  And I still feel it really is a ........ argument to some extent, this was the point of my rebuttal to Stiefel, (who was trying to make Rossi & Sic's argument in reverse).  It amounts to throwing up some ........ in the air and seeing where it lands (not that Stiefel was doing this, but the debate itself is ........ since nobody is prepared to actually make a meaningful go at calculating the real physics behind it all AND then attempt to make a worthwhile conclusion as to ‘advantages & disadvantages’ in MotoGP racing.)  Physically speaking, the difference as you calculated is devoid of the actually ability of the rider to withstand and negotiate that difference in energy (you calculated) generated by change of acceleration (or in this case, deceleration).  The point suggested is that Pedro's little arms are not as capable of withstanding such forces as say would a larger man. How you intended to factor this in would be fascinating.

 

The physics behind the act of acceleration & deceleration, as it pertains to "advantages" in racing are much more complex than you have calculated.  If we are going to concluded that there is some stopping disadvantage for Pedro (deceleration described as conversion of kinetic energy as you propose) then what advantage might he have enjoyed in 'acceleration'?  Then when you are done attempting to calculate these differences, I would be most enthralled in how you might arrive at significant and meaningful conclusions when we haven't been able to include the actual physical abilities of said riders (that is, how are you going to account for the strength of each rider given their unique body characteristics, muscle mass, bone structure, and other connective tissue, etc. involved in mitigating forces).  That is, not all midgets are created equal.  

 

Ok, buddy, so your calculations above are what we would call "a simple" calculation, in that its an average (kinda like whats on your speedometer); but as you know, there are several events happening during the positive and negative acceleration.  If we are going to try and describe the forces encountered and how that may or maynot produce an "advantage or disadvantage" for a unique rider, we are going to need much more complex calculations.  You can start by describing the difference in braking distance and time between Pedro and Rossi (VR only because you have picked him as apposed to any other rider).  As you know, both riders did not come to a complete stop (rest), so you will need to measure what exactly is the speed and velocity each rider is comfortable with going into a particular turn, for the sake of keeping this discussion "simple" enough, lets just say turn one at any given track you choose (we will pretend they are all the same).  As you can probably now surmise, if Rossi can handle a bit more corner speed, then that means he may not have to brake as much, or vis versa for Pedro, given of course the characteristics of each bike, and the comfort level of either rider into turn 1.  Lets just pretend their bikes are equal; and forget the generally accepted convention which has us believing that the M1is better suited to handle corner speed than say the Honda (the magnitude of course would be interesting to calculate, though probably next to impossible).  What then of wind resistance?  If deceleration is simply 'acceleration in reverse' or in reality 'a change in velocity', that is, a 'rate' then it would stand to reason that this value (which can be expressed in Gs) would be different for both men experienced at say, their arms (though even that is isolating it too much, I mean, if we are going to go into a meaningful physics exercise) given each rider starts the deceleration process at different speeds and end at different speeds relative to each other.  Rossi's body could in effect ‘parachute’ there by mitigating the G force in his arms, where as Pedro would have less ‘surface area’ to provide ‘wind resistance’ in the process of deceleration.  

 

And… .... it, its too much to write.  The point is, its way more complicated, and way more involved than I care to describe.  

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Your last sentence is exactly why I kept it very simple. In fact, any more complex modelling would have so many assumptions in it that it would be just as likely to lead to incorrect conclusions. You see the bit in my post where I used the word "theoretical" and "real world"? So, I'm not sure why you seem to feel the need to disparage the calcs, put words in my mouth or to attempt to teach me to suck eggs on the dynamic forces going on under brakes. Patronising, much?

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So the 'optimal' braking advantage ain't that big as the wieght difference, but 8.5% is pretty significant. But it would be less than that in the real world.

 

And then you need to consider that these things are limited by weight transfer (pulling a stoppie) not traction (locking up) so the ability for a heavier, longer armed VR to influence weight transfer by getting more weight over the back wheel under brakes is going to chew up even more of that theoretical advantage.

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The 'impressive' thing wasn't in terms of the impressiveness of the calculations, but at shot at myself for not thinking about them harder and going through stages of calculations that weren't needed.

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[All that calculating and dipshit here could have just worked out the %age difference between the bike/rider weights...would have given the same 8.5....but at least the numbers look "impressive"]

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The whole point of the calculations were to show that the absolutely maximum theoretical advantage due to lower mass that DP might have over VR in braking is less than 10%. They are, within, the realms of the assumptions I listed, absolutely correct. That is the fundamental difference in the energy required to brake from 320 to 80kph.

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Pedrosa had a great season last year - 2 races in to the new season when both of the two opening tracks are a bit iffy, is a bit too soon to be calling for his retirement.


 


If HRC had employed a lesser rider than Stoner, Pedrosa would have won the WC in 2012 - hands down. He was beaten by the points his team-mate took off him, he certainly won the head-to-head with Jorge.


 


Pedrosa is heading towards being the top 5 winningest racers ever (he is currently tied on 45 with Lorenzo - 9 more and he passes Doohan). He's stood on the podium 113 times. The latest time was a week ago. He's had ten wins in the last two years against riders of the calibre of Stoner, Lorenzo and (koff) Rossi.


 


Of course you need to be on the best equipment and with the best team to win - that's the way the game is stacked. But the old adage about the cream rising to the top is also apt. Put Bradl on a full factory bike (wait, isn't that what he's got???) and what happens? Pedrosa gets a podium and Bradl is in 5th. Put Aleix Espargaro or Randy de Puniet on the HRC and you might get a bit more of a fight, but they would make a mistake and he would stil end up on the podium.


 


There's a reason good riders get the good gear. Why do you think RdP and Espargaro don't have factory rides? They have been around long enough to impress the powers-that-be, so the only conclusion can be... they didn't.


 


In all this loe/hate fest over various riders, I think you have forgotten that talent isn't easy to come by. The reason Marquez got the Honda gig is because he has talent. The same happened for Stoner, for Lorenzo, for Rossi. 


 


Dovi screwed the pooch when he ...... HRC over - he did any chance he would ever have for a top team ride. The Big Boys don't forget things like that - he will never ride another Honda and Yamaha are of the same mind-set. They want blood-in-the-teeth warriors that do what they are told. Dovi believed his own hype and paid the price.  


 


There's one thing that you can say about all the top riders - they are company men. Rossi is able - with his clown suit on - to make barbs and insinuations, but the press value he brings is far greater than the brickbats he makes them endure. They will live with it, while he delivers. If the rest of the season pans out like the first two races have, he will be gone by 2015.


 


But Pedrosa and Lorenzo have come up through the very professional and media and sponsor-savvy Spanish championships and lesser world championships. They have been groomed to be what you see.


 


That is not who they are. 

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Oh, that's a lot of text.


 


Just to be clear: I know f all about physics. Apples drop from trees because some guy named Isaac made that a law or something, that's about it. 

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To be frank, I have no idea what you're on about. It appears the calcs and my conclusions, minor as they were, went against your position. So now they are subjected to a tiresome tirade that I perversely feel the need to respond to because you wrote so damn much.


Parse away, Jum, if it pleases you.

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