Burgess: No panic over Rossi test pace

evo9 · Nov 16, 2010

rossiofsky said:
What are you exactly saying?

My comment says very clear that Rossi has the records that talks for him, i talk for me as a fan of him who has had enough of hater's?

did you find that offending towards you? or what?

Maybe we should have your screen name change to NOTTO. As in "not too bright"! If you are not able to understand simple English. You should not be posting on this website. Nothing negative was posted till you started to spew you verbal diarrhea. Take the bopper glasses off.

.

rossiofsky · Nov 16, 2010

evo9 said:
Maybe we should have your screen name change to NOTTO. As in "not too bright"! If you are not able to understand simple English. You should not be posting on this website. Nothing negative was posted till you started to spew you verbal diarrhea. Take the bopper glasses off.

.

I know that user name of me, is a big pain in your's and a lot of other hater's a$$es.

you came with a bs comment, and when i Politely showed your mistake, instead of admiting to your stupid mistake, you came with another one.

Untill now i see your the more stupid one in English, as you didn't Understand, or Couldn't Read my comment. so stfu.

renjith_varma · Nov 16, 2010

Now a days, most of the threads end up discussing whether a member is hater or a bopper rather than having any meaningful conversation. Here also, rather than agreeing/ disagreeing with JB with their own points, we concentrate on baiting the haters or taking bopper glasses

Just my observation..

two-stroke · Nov 16, 2010

God sometimes the sheer amount of ....... boppers and the antagonism of many posters puts me off this forum.

You dare question Rossi = HATER HATER HATER

You happen to like Rossi/Stoner/Any rider=BOPPER BOPPER BOPPER

You happen to be called Berry =WINDBAG... wait.... that's actually right.

How about we just discuss the article without trying to piss someone off? I'm sure it's possible.

Anyway, please continue

J4rn0 · Nov 16, 2010

This imho is the most interesting bit from JB's interview:

[font="tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif"]"For sure we've understood that to make the Ducati turn, you need a bigger effort than what Valentino was used to, [/font]

[font="tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif"]physically too, and we didn't expect that."[/font]

[font="tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif"]

[/font]

I had dismissed the shoulder injury as a main reason for Rossi's slow times in the tests, based on Vale's results in the race; but taking this aspect into consideration changes the perspective.

Unfortunately for Rossi and Ducati, this means that the much awaited Valencia tests could not be made use of properly, and the beginning of the real work is now postponed to Sepang.[font="tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif"] [/font]

Honestly, regarding this topic, I think judgement has to be suspended until February. We'll have to find some other fodder to go through this couple of months

michaelm · Nov 16, 2010

rossiofsky said:
I see you cant stay out of it ieder. if your not a hater why do you care?

Rossi has his records to talk for him, but i talk as a fan of him who's had enough of hater's bs about Rossi fans.

Did i ruined your dream party? it wasn't me, it was JB. I only put it under your nose.

I make no bones about being a stoner fan, but I think I have a fair record on here of not hating rossi, particularly in 2007 when things were not going his way, during the great "tyre war " discussion of that year and this year when I have always said his injuries are significantly impairing him; I may in fact be in a position to have a better informed opinion than you on the latter subject.

I have already confessed to a tiny bit of rossi/jb hating on the valencia testing issue on the other thread; I did think their comments about stoner not pushing hard enough earlier in the year and the implication that the ducati's problems could be promptly fixed by those more competent than stoner and his team such as themselves were a little snide, and this statement by jb does seem to acknowledge that things may be a little more complex than he had thought, in addition to rossi clearly being impeded by his shoulder as is quite obvious to all.

I have to also confess that my comment to which you replied was snide itself; what can I say, the devil made me do it

. You do imo as is not uncommon sometimes confuse posters on the forum being irked by holier than though posts from some rossi fans with hating rossi himself. I admit that the doubts cast on rossi's injuries are unjustified and do constitute hating, but the volume and virulence of such comments were greatly exceeded by comments from your side of the fence when stoner was injured and ill, to the extent that such attitudes more generally when he had his illness last year went close to totally derailing his career.

Mental Anarchist · Nov 16, 2010

J4rn0 said:
This imho is the most interesting bit from JB's interview:

[font="tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif"]"For sure we've understood that to make the Ducati turn, you need a bigger effort than what Valentino was used to, [/font]

[font="tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif"]physically too, and we didn't expect that."[/font]

[font="tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif"]

[/font]

I had dismissed the shoulder injury as a main reason for Rossi's slow times in the tests, based on Vale's results in the race; but taking this aspect into consideration changes the perspective.

Unfortunately for Rossi and Ducati, this means that the much awaited Valencia tests could not be made use of properly, and the beginning of the real work is now postponed to Sepang.[font="tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif"] [/font]

Honestly, regarding this topic, I think judgement has to be suspended until February. We'll have to find some other fodder to go through this couple of months

This comment was for me too the most interesting but for a different reason.

How can JB say that they didn't expect the bike to need so much effort to turn? This has been plainly obvious to just about every person who has watched Stoner ride the thing.

I think the general consensus has been that:

1) the Ducati is a far different bike than the Japanese variations.

2) riding the ducati is a hugely physical endeavour

3) Rossi is not used to riding this style of bike

4) Rossi would have difficulty riding this style of bike

5) Rossi would attempt to change the style of bike to one that suits him

6) if he succeeds then he will be at the front if he does not then he will struggle to match the pace of the front 3-5 riders

Anyone who calls this "hating" is not worth have a keyboard conversation with.

dwoodhouse · Nov 16, 2010

Mental Anarchist said:
This comment was for me too the most interesting but for a different reason.

How can JB say that they didn't expect the bike to need so much effort to turn? This has been plainly obvious to just about every person who has watched Stoner ride the thing.

I think the general consensus has been that:

1) the Ducati is a far different bike than the Japanese variations.

2) riding the ducati is a hugely physical endeavour

3) Rossi is not used to riding this style of bike

4) Rossi would have difficulty riding this style of bike

5) Rossi would attempt to change the style of bike to one that suits him

6) if he succeeds then he will be at the front if he does not then he will struggle to match the pace of the front 3-5 riders

Anyone who calls this "hating" is not worth have a keyboard conversation with.

Yes I pretty much agree with this post. In relation to JB's comment - you never really know what something does to your body until you try it yourself. It's like someone telling you they are ready for kids. It's still a bloody shock when they come along.

I do think that Rossi could have performed much better than he did if he had experience on the bike and was 100% fit. In that case I wouldn't expect him to be too much quicker than Hayden. I don't think he could have run the Lorenzo/Stoner pace with that bike in its current form. Let's see what the bike becomes.

michaelm · Nov 16, 2010

woody996 said:
Yes I pretty much agree with this post. In relation to JB's comment - you never really know what something does to your body until you try it yourself. It's like someone telling you they are ready for kids. It's still a bloody shock when they come along.

I do think that Rossi could have performed much better than he did if he had experience on the bike and was 100% fit. In that case I wouldn't expect him to be too much quicker than Hayden. I don't think he could have run the Lorenzo/Stoner pace with that bike in its current form. Let's see what the bike becomes.

Absolutely. I actually think and have said previously that rossi could ride the ducati like stoner if he felt it necessary to do so and was fully fit, but I very much doubt that he would want to do this; even stoner was getting tired of it, and for him this year at least riding the thing at a pace competitive for race wins involved a 50% dnf rate which is not acceptable for anyone.

I do think it is legitimate to speculate as to whether the design of the bike will allow even rossi and jb to remake it to suit them/him without it constituting rossi hating, but as I have also previously said if it is fixable they are the most likely candidates for success in that task.

J4rn0 · Nov 17, 2010

double

J4rn0 · Nov 17, 2010

Mental Anarchist said:
This comment was for me too the most interesting but for a different reason.

How can JB say that they didn't expect the bike to need so much effort to turn? This has been plainly obvious to just about every person who has watched Stoner ride the thing.

I think the general consensus has been that:

1) the Ducati is a far different bike than the Japanese variations.

2) riding the ducati is a hugely physical endeavour

3) Rossi is not used to riding this style of bike

4) Rossi would have difficulty riding this style of bike

5) Rossi would attempt to change the style of bike to one that suits him

6) if he succeeds then he will be at the front if he does not then he will struggle to match the pace of the front 3-5 riders

Anyone who calls this "hating" is not worth have a keyboard conversation with.

It seems to me that the person you should have a conversation with, is Burgess.

Mental Anarchist · Nov 17, 2010

J4rn0 said:
It seems to me that the person you should have a conversation with, is Burgess.

To be honest I am not even close to being qualified to have a conversation with JB. The best I could hope for is an autograph.

That does not however rule me out of being able to pass an opinion on a public comment that he has made. Rather than comment on each item of comment I will just say that in all the years I have been watching JB thru Gardner, Doohan and Rossi I have never heard JB play his rider up in the media as I have in the last 10 days in particular but also through out this season. His comments about Stoner and other riders are out of character. I think that JB and Rossi are both so far out of their comfort zone at the moment as it is the first time they have been beaten by the other side of the garage over a whole season and they have made a difficult move to a team and a bike that is as far a way as what they have played with for the past 8 years as it could possibly be. To me they are showing signs of being flustered.

Do I think that they both have the ability to overcome the adversity? Absolutely. Do I think they will? Still not 100% decided.

Anders · Nov 17, 2010

I think it's allways very interresting to hear what Burgess(and other chief mechanics,but him in particular because of his resume) sais because he is maybe not as careful and isn't a rider.So,insight but not as censured as riders need to be,or want to be.

On the other hand,now that he is maybe speaking for Rossi a little bit at the moment when Rossi isn't allowed.

He could be thinking more carefully what to say.

The thing i'm most puzzled about is they didn't know the Ducati would be more physical(harder to turn).That has been quite obvious since Capirossi talked about this even on the 990,and now Hayden and maybe Stoner too on the 800.The big difference was/is not so hard to see for the trained eye either i can imagine.I mean even I could suspect it seeing the Yamaha cruise through chicanes and so on when Ducatiriders was wrestling.

Maybe he meant that "we expected it to be hard to turn but not THAT hard "

Maybe the whole policy from Ducati this winter is to play down Rossi's chances,to make the oponents relax a bit.Don't know.

#22 · Nov 17, 2010

BarryMachine said:
Not sure that article is as pro Rossi as you might believe.

Sure it says wait, be calm, etc. etc. But the end result is it does give many possible excuses for why Rossi did not perform on the Ducati. And that is the real problem at hand. And it isn't fixed yet and things are looking glum. But possible reasons are just that ...... possible.

I personally don't buy the "shoulder is causing it", mainly because the performance we saw was just to attrociuous compared to Rossi on the Yamaha. But I might buy into the argument that trying to ride the Ducati wasn't good for Rossi's shoulder.

But all that aside, the combination of Rossi and the Duc. is not good.

Next year will tell us more.

Oh and PS. I bet Ducati is panicking like never before at this point in time. "JB's" article smacks of simillar calls of "don't panic", or "stay calm", as the Titanic sank ....... which is generally when such calls are uttered

Eg. Lets just look for calls of "don't panic" from the Stoner/Honda ship .......... nope ...... nobody seems to be having to call for panic there ......... theres a reason for that

Rossi on the Duc. is the new Titanic ....... thats about how its looking.

The man is now a Historian too...

L8Braker · Nov 17, 2010

You figure if the Duc is hard to turn, it takes away the feel, with human input at maximum, seems it would be harder to feel when you have reached the limit as well. That would explain why Stoner and Hayden have hit the tarmac and not have a good explanation as to why they went down.

Geonerd · Nov 17, 2010

rossiofsky said:
Well done.

Nice bait for the hater's.

JB pi$ed badly on hater's dreams, wait they will show up in a moment, i already cought one in another thread with this interview.

"Hate, hate hate!!" You know what I hate? I really HATE people that use apostrophes when they are not appropriate!

You and Chops use the damn things with every plural. Please stop!

Thank you.

-The Grammar Nazi

I must admit that I found JB's excuse list entertaining. The fact that he feels the need to list so many 'reasons' indicates he and ~~God~~ Rossi are feeling a little heat over the issue.

At least it gives us something to yap about. Racin Deprivation Syndrome (RDS) is a .....!

J4rn0 · Nov 17, 2010

Anders GUZZI said:
I think it's allways very interresting to hear what Burgess(and other chief mechanics,but him in particular because of his resume) sais because he is maybe not as careful and isn't a rider.So,insight but not as censured as riders need to be,or want to be.

On the other hand,now that he is maybe speaking for Rossi a little bit at the moment when Rossi isn't allowed.

He could be thinking more carefully what to say.

The thing i'm most puzzled about is they didn't know the Ducati would be more physical(harder to turn).That has been quite obvious since Capirossi talked about this even on the 990,and now Hayden and maybe Stoner too on the 800.The big difference was/is not so hard to see for the trained eye either i can imagine.I mean even I could suspect it seeing the Yamaha cruise through chicanes and so on when Ducatiriders was wrestling.

Maybe he meant that "we expected it to be hard to turn but not THAT hard "

Maybe the whole policy from Ducati this winter is to play down Rossi's chances,to make the oponents relax a bit.Don't know.

Or maybe the expected 'hardness' was amplified by a tired rider with an aching shoulder.

Anyway, the result has been that the test was not really useful.

Everything will need to be tested again at Sepang. Starting with the screamer vs big bang. Which had been declared to be the main decision they had to take at Valencia, but wasn't finalized.

Why? because one cannot really be sure about anything unless the bike is taken to the limit. And we know the limits of that Ducati, as shown by Stoner: they're very far.

For the same reason so-called "sandbagging" would be preposterous in this context.

Tom · Nov 17, 2010

I don't think many of us are in a state of panic. I can see why JB would make these comments, the media will be after a some drama for the offseason and this is sure to be a big talking point. But around here at least most people seem to have expected Rossi to go better on the first Ducati test, but still think the necessary hard work will get done and both Rossi and Ducati will turn up to the next test in much better shape. Even those who hope it all falls appart for Valentino can't realistically deduce that he wont be at the front next year, they just like to antagonize the Rossi fans and put themselves in a position to say 'told you so' if they turn out to be right

jazkat · Nov 17, 2010

i believe the work method for the ducati is alien to any rider, even stoner.

i mean look where its ended up, i think they are to radical when it comes to design a bike but hats off to them for taking such big risks.... in 2007 it was way more workable for stoner then they started fiddling with the carbon stuff, now look where the bike is,...... yes the new motor helped abit for other riders but its the rest of it thats the problem

yes stoner can still fly onit but hes alot less consistant now compared to his first year so who do we blame? stoner for telling them " we seem to be going in the right direction" or ducati for getting way to carried away?

i still think that the carbon frame wont be around for much longer unless they can really make it work. highly unlickly tho

it was obvious stoner was gonna be quick on the honda...its already a well developed bike and has serious performance that is usable for many riders, i think that if it was rossi that went back to honda he would have been near the top of time sheets to, the ducati's front end is the big problem...many times stoner has said the front just let go.

il wait till sepang before making my judgement.

Pigeon · Nov 17, 2010

6 races in 2011 lets see if Vale can podium and there after

if not its 2012 the real bikes will be bk Vale hopefully gets that proto sorted then takes his retirement pay cheque

see there from a bopper

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Burgess: No panic over Rossi test pace

evo9

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