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Burgess interview (on Stoner, Honda and the gearbox) / Casey Interview (on Honda, the move from Duca

stiefel said:
Yup. And Id like to add that, with the recent increase in Stoner's popularity, it may pay off for Honda marketing as well. Right now, he's probably the man to have if you want to race on sunday and sell on monday.



Conversely, I'd also say that there must be a lot of sponsors that already have doubts about sponsoring Rossi's latest venture.
Click to expand...



Stoner doesn't sell anywhere near as many bikes as Rossi and other top riders in the sport do/have.



Even Lorenzo is much better known to mainstream fans. Stoner's a very good rider, but he has no personality, isn't very marketable and is always putting his foot in his mouth. It's why Ducati were happy to pay Lorenzo more - just as much talent and far more marketability.
 
Nino said:
Stoner doesn't sell anywhere near as many bikes as Rossi and other top riders in the sport do/have.



Even Lorenzo is much better known to mainstream fans. Stoner's a very good rider, but he has no personality, isn't very marketable and is always putting his foot in his mouth. It's why Ducati were happy to pay Lorenzo more - just as much talent and far more marketability.
Click to expand...

........ on every level.
 
Either Rossi is a liar, or his fans dont read. Rossi stated straight up, that Ducati and Yamaha offered exactly the same contract, right down to the appearance obligations. Everyone knows why he left, and it wasnt money.
 
Nino said:
Stoner doesn't sell anywhere near as many bikes as Rossi and other top riders in the sport do/have.



Even Lorenzo is much better known to mainstream fans. Stoner's a very good rider, but he has no personality, isn't very marketable and is always putting his foot in his mouth. It's why Ducati were happy to pay Lorenzo more - just as much talent and far more marketability.
Click to expand...



Ducati went into the "black" with Stoner.



Weren't Yamaha in a poor profit situation with Rossi and Lorenzo? Hence the pay cuts
<




Not sure it will affect other countries but I know here in Aust folk were snapping up old Repsol schemed CBR's like hotcakes as soon as they heard Stoner was going there. There is also talk of a new 800 V4 sportsbike that will be available Repsol Faired.



Honda are doing ok aren't they? Why did they want Stoner so bad if it was not "marketable"?



Outside of the Boppers, Lorenzo and Rossi's "celebrations" are viewed as quite lame and juvenile. How does that sell bikes?
 
Nino said:
Stoner doesn't sell anywhere near as many bikes as Rossi and other top riders in the sport do/have.



Even Lorenzo is much better known to mainstream fans. Stoner's a very good rider, but he has no personality, isn't very marketable and is always putting his foot in his mouth. It's why Ducati were happy to pay Lorenzo more - just as much talent and far more marketability.
Click to expand...



stiefel said:
Yup. And Id like to add that, with the recent increase in Stoner's popularity, it may pay off for Honda marketing as well. Right now, he's probably the man to have if you want to race on sunday and sell on monday.



Conversely, I'd also say that there must be a lot of sponsors that already have doubts about sponsoring Rossi's latest venture.
Click to expand...
 
Nino said:
Stoner doesn't sell anywhere near as many bikes as Rossi and other top riders in the sport do/have.



Even Lorenzo is much better known to mainstream fans. Stoner's a very good rider, but he has no personality, isn't very marketable and is always putting his foot in his mouth. It's why Ducati were happy to pay Lorenzo more - just as much talent and far more marketability.
Click to expand...



It's not personality - it's about the wins. What do you want to bet sales of Ducati sport bikes decline this year?

Even the most rabid fan-boys (a fickle bunch if ever there were one) won't go out and plunk down $18,000.00

in order to be seen at the Burger King, riding the bike that the clown prince of Moto-Media is riding to a

magnificent 7th place.



Re: Stoner's personality - I'll wager his being on a team that makes a nearly flawless bike, with proper

support from upper mgmt, and not having to ride around the idiosyncrasies of the Dukey - will make

for a much more relaxed and exuberant Stoner. Tho I wouldn't even look at one in the showroom the

last four years - I'm keeping my eye out for nice 2009 or 2010 Repsol replica in good shape (if the price

is right).
 
Nino said:
Stoner doesn't sell anywhere near as many bikes as Rossi and other top riders in the sport do/have.



Even Lorenzo is much better known to mainstream fans. Stoner's a very good rider, but he has no personality, isn't very marketable and is always putting his foot in his mouth. It's why Ducati were happy to pay Lorenzo more - just as much talent and far more marketability.
Click to expand...



Well from a marketing/money making point of view, you may be correct here. Lorenzo is determined, talented and he does the after race theatrics which some people love, but lets take it a step further.



Say you're a rider looking for a ride in the smaller gp classes, then the bigger classes. Some are fast, some are from the right country, some are marketable or bring sponsorship money, some are a combination of all three.



if you have all 3, for sure, then you get gifted the best rides in the best factory teams.



If you have 2 out of 3. It depends. Nicky hayden only won a world championship for honda, but dani was from the right country and was the sponsors pet boy, so that trumped hayden in terms of who was no.1, who they developed the bike for.



What if you're just fast? are you going to get a ride? maybe, maybe not. If so, it'll be with a satellite team with left over factory bits, so you better be extra fast to compensate.



If you're from the right country, have sponsorship money, but maybe aren't as fast, are you going to get a ride? maybe, maybe not. Is that good for marketing? maybe. Good for the sport? No.



Barry sheene was from the wrong country (not spanish or italian), but he was smart, so he invented the marketability. and it helped that he was fast.



But Doohan, rainey, roberts, schwantz, lawson, gardner, mccoy, would we have seen all these guys come through in the current environment, because they're weren't marketable in the sense of rossi or lorenzo, they weren't from the right country or have rich sponsors, lucky for us they were just fast enough to get noticed. Unfortunately i'm wondering whether that's enough nowdays.
 
Son of Doohan said:
........ on every level.
Click to expand...



Mate he's a robot.



Marlboro weren't exactly enamoured with his attitude and general demeanour.



He might sell some stuff in Australia, but in Europe and elsewhere, Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Rossi are much bigger. Spies and Hayden are much bigger names in the U.S.
 
Keshav said:
Uhh... excuse me. That is not what occurred at Yamaha. They didn't offer Lorenzo double the salary. Your comparison is bukwas.

Moreover - Rossi had sustained two very serious injuries, one to the leg and the second to the shoulder making him a great

unknown - yet Yamaha were generous enough to offer to keep him on with a considerable paycheck despite

the fact that he was damaged goods. Lorenzo had won the championship and Rossi was then in the position of being the #2 rider. #2 riders don't get paid the same as a reigning champ - especially not in a recession. Stop trying to make Rossi look like a martyr. He's a victim of his own hubris.

He made his bed and now he's lying in it. Get over it.
Click to expand...



Bukwaas? Wow



Yes, I know they didn't give Lorenzo double the salary but my point was the feeling both the riders felt must be similar - they both must have felt insulted that the factory to which both of them contributed significantly didn't consider them good enuf (I am basing this on the rumour that Rossi was asked to take a paycut)



I agree with all that you are saying but that makes up only Yamaha's POV. Now look at Rossi's. In his mind (considering his not so small ego), he won Yamaha so many championships and once he got injured, they consider him damaged goods. I think this insulted him and made him throw away the loyalty out of the window and went for greener pastures (which includes not having Jorge as a team mate as bonus
<
)
 
Nino said:
Even Lorenzo is much better known to mainstream fans. Stoner's a very good rider, but he has no personality, isn't very marketable and is always putting his foot in his mouth. It's why Ducati were happy to pay Lorenzo more - just as much talent and far more marketability.
Click to expand...



Bull crap. Total ....... Bull Crap. Stoner, like half the people on this ....... planet, is an introvert. People like him are self motivating and self validating. He doesn't need the adoration of the fans, and doesn't see the point in planting flags or jumping around like a circus monkey after a win. As for foot-in-mouth, I give him full credit for being straightforward and honest. If he's pissed off, if he feels you did him wrong, he'll say so. Good on him! I'd MUCH rather listen to an honest whine/rant than the sneaky, snarky, backstabbing jibes we often hear from The Chosen One.



Unfortunately, you do have a point with the marketing. Every team, every sponsor, is ultimately funded by Marketing Monkeys who all want the next Rossi. Looking at the big picture, Marketing Monkeys ....... SUCK. In the process of spending trillions to pimp their .... to us good little consumers, hey have utterly poisoned our society with artificial values and desires. Honesty and a quiet demeanor just aren't very marketable / exploitable / 'useful' in this day and age, so if you're not Rossi or Gaga, you're no one. Nino, before passing High-and-Holy judgement and condemning Stoner as having a 'bad' personality, maybe you should pause to ask yourself, "And who's fault is that?"



End early morning, pre-coffee rant!
 
Guess it comes down to what you're trying to sell. If it's motorcycles, I'd say go for Stoner. If it's fluffy yellow stuffed animals, Rossi's the way to go.























If it's Prozac, you definitely want Lorenzo.
 
Geonerd said:
Bull crap. Total ....... Bull Crap. Stoner, like half the people on this ....... planet, is an introvert. People like him are self motivating and self validating. He doesn't need the adoration of the fans, and doesn't see the point in planting flags or jumping around like a circus monkey after a win. As for foot-in-mouth, I give him full credit for being straightforward and honest. If he's pissed off, if he feels you did him wrong, he'll say so. Good on him! I'd MUCH rather listen to an honest whine/rant than the sneaky, snarky, backstabbing jibes we often hear from The Chosen One.



Unfortunately, you do have a point with the marketing. Every team, every sponsor, is ultimately funded by Marketing Monkeys who all want the next Rossi. Looking at the big picture, Marketing Monkeys ....... SUCK. In the process of spending trillions to pimp their .... to us good little consumers, hey have utterly poisoned our society with artificial values and desires. Honesty and a quiet demeanor just aren't very marketable / exploitable / 'useful' in this day and age, so if you're not Rossi or Gaga, you're no one. Nino, before passing High-and-Holy judgement and condemning Stoner as having a 'bad' personality, maybe you should pause to ask yourself, "And who's fault is that?"



End early morning, pre-coffee rant!
Click to expand...



I haven't said he's a 'bad' personality, just boring. He reminds of some of the F1 drivers, like Button and Hamilton.



Doesn't mean he doesn't occasionally have interesting stuff to say, but at the end of the day, the sponsors often pay a significant amount towards a riders pay packet. It's a bit naive to want a significantly bigger deal even if you're winning races, when you only want to do the bare minimum in commercial terms.



MotoGP just like football, is as much as a business as it is a sport. No point crying about it when the riders are enjoying the benefits of this earning millions of pounds every season.
 
Nino said:
I haven't said he's a 'bad' personality, just boring. He reminds of some of the F1 drivers, like Button and Hamilton.



Doesn't mean he doesn't occasionally have interesting stuff to say, but at the end of the day, the sponsors often pay a significant amount towards a riders pay packet. It's a bit naive to want a significantly bigger deal even if you're winning races, when you only want to do the bare minimum in commercial terms.



MotoGP just like football, is as much as a business as it is a sport. No point crying about it when the riders are enjoying the benefits of this earning millions of pounds every season.
Click to expand...



shocking news you offer here.

you are by far the most entertaining new kid on the forum
<
 
Renjith said:
Bukwaas? Wow



Yes, I know they didn't give Lorenzo double the salary but my point was the feeling both the riders felt must be similar - they both must have felt insulted that the factory to which both of them contributed significantly didn't consider them good enuf (I am basing this on the rumour that Rossi was asked to take a paycut)



I agree with all that you are saying but that makes up only Yamaha's POV. Now look at Rossi's. In his mind (considering his not so small ego), he won Yamaha so many championships and once he got injured, they consider him damaged goods. I think this insulted him and made him throw away the loyalty out of the window and went for greener pastures (which includes not having Jorge as a team mate as bonus
<
)
Click to expand...



It's not a question of "similar feelings". Rossi was to be retained at the salary he was paid when he was at the top of his game.



Whereas... Stoner - who it must be remembered, had signed on with Ducati at what was already a very humble salary by MGP standards

- who had heroically ridden around the idiosyncrasies of a poor handling bike - and handed Ducati their first and only championship in the

history of the company - was being asked to stay on at his 2007 rate of pay - while they were offering Lorenzo (who'd never set foot on a Ducati)

the moon. You can bet if Rossi had signed on with Ducati at a low salary and then won them their first championship - he'd have renegotiated

for a considerable salary bump in the next season.



It's been stated by Stoner that Ducati had been keeping him on at low salary because of the economic woes the upper mgmt were crying over

- and Stoner, a consummate team player - had agreed to ride for less money to keep the Ducati dream alive. To then have Ducati offer a huge

salary to Lorenzo was incredibly insulting. So - clearly not the same thing.
 
Nino said:
It's why Ducati were happy to pay Lorenzo more - just as much talent and far more marketability.
Click to expand...

And this is why it went pear-shaped for Ducati. Its becoming pretty obvious that the Duc needs a very, very different riding style from the Jap bikes to get it on the podium and to date Stoner is the only rider to show they have the particular talents to do it. On Yamahas Lorenzo probably has an edge on Stoner with that high-corner speed style; on Ducatis all evidence to date is that Stoner would put seconds a lap into Lorenzo (if Rossi with his 500 experience is having trouble Lorenzo would be having nightmares).



Its like the Elias debacle - yes he won in Moto2, no he can't win on a MotoGP bike. Wrong style, wrong talents and it just makes everyone look bad. Ducati management really had no idea what they were playing with.
 
Geonerd said:
Bull crap. Total ....... Bull Crap. Stoner, like half the people on this ....... planet, is an introvert. People like him are self motivating and self validating. He doesn't need the adoration of the fans, and doesn't see the point in planting flags or jumping around like a circus monkey after a win. As for foot-in-mouth, I give him full credit for being straightforward and honest. If he's pissed off, if he feels you did him wrong, he'll say so. Good on him! I'd MUCH rather listen to an honest whine/rant than the sneaky, snarky, backstabbing jibes we often hear from The Chosen One.



Unfortunately, you do have a point with the marketing. Every team, every sponsor, is ultimately funded by Marketing Monkeys who all want the next Rossi. Looking at the big picture, Marketing Monkeys ....... SUCK. In the process of spending trillions to pimp their .... to us good little consumers, hey have utterly poisoned our society with artificial values and desires. Honesty and a quiet demeanor just aren't very marketable / exploitable / 'useful' in this day and age, so if you're not Rossi or Gaga, you're no one. Nino, before passing High-and-Holy judgement and condemning Stoner as having a 'bad' personality, maybe you should pause to ask yourself, "And who's fault is that?"



End early morning, pre-coffee rant!
Click to expand...



Agree. Moreover.... there's lots of everyday folks who relate to Stoner's straight-talk, without the public relations candy-coating. Maybe

it doesn't appeal to the shallow juveniles for whom great racing isn't sufficient unless it's packaged with sophmoric kiddie-show antics,

but there's sure as hell a big segment of the race-watching public who do like what Stoner projects. I'm talking the same people who

revere the no-........ guys like, Lawson, Roberts, Schwantz and Doohan.



Hayden being well liked - can't be hurting Ducati's marketing. I will say, as much as I admire him - that I find it painful to listen to him

sometimes when he speaks in that aw shucks, mealy-mouthed way, always skirting the issues that cause him anger and frustration.

I'd much prefer it if he were to speak his mind plainly the way Edwards does. Personally - I feel that restraint that he exhibits,

carries over into his performance on-track and hurts his results. The boy needs him some more fire in the belly.
 
Keshav said:
...



Hayden being well liked - can't be hurting Ducati's marketing. I will say, as much as I admire him - that I find it painful to listen to him

sometimes when he speaks in that aw shucks, mealy-mouthed way, always skirting the issues that cause him anger and frustration.

I'd much prefer it if he were to speak his mind plainly the way Edwards does. Personally - I feel that restraint that he exhibits,

carries over into his performance on-track and hurts his results. The boy needs him some more fire in the belly.
Click to expand...



Agreed. I don't dislike Hayden one bit, but I often find him cringe worthy in interviews. Couldn't quite put my finger on why that was so far, but you may have hit onto one or two things there.
 

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