Burgess interview (on Stoner, Honda and the gearbox) / Casey Interview (on Honda, the move from Duca

Very nice interview.

It was nice to hear his real feelings about Some of the things, especially about the Lorenzo contract, and tarction.



What an stupid act by ducati at that time, That's an insult to any NR1 rider, especially Stoner and the amount of money they wanted to pay Lorenzo. Ducati had too much hurry. The bosses already are sorry, imo. A few days ago Ducati boss said: we dont know why Casey went to Honda. Now he has his answer.

rossiofsky said:

Very nice interview.

It was nice to hear his real feelings about Some of the things, especially about the Lorenzo contract, and tarction.



What an stupid act by ducati at that time, That's an insult to any NR1 rider, especially Stoner and the amount of money they wanted to pay Lorenzo. Ducati had too much hurry. The bosses already are sorry, imo. A few days ago Ducati boss said: we dont know why Casey went to Honda. Now he has his answer.

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He really said that? What a tool!

povol said:

He really said that? What a tool!

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I think he actually said it ages ago, and I think that there are very divided feelings over the whole Stoner leaving thing. Not sure anybody there dislikes him at all but I think some guys really knew how much he was worth to Ducati, and appreciated that.

Nino said:

Am I denying he ever said it - what when I've just referred to it in a previous post?



Burgess was talking about getting the best setup available for an individual rider. Not turning the Desmosedici into some some God bike.

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oh stop man. your grasping. JB was being arrogant (and so was VR) before they even really knew what the bike was, or better, WASN'T capable of. they are singing a different tune all of a sudden now aren't they. why don't you stop and ask yourself why is that? i remember hearing quotes like, "he isn't pushing hard enough". i bet VR isn't thinking the same thing now is he?



its people like you that make jumkie point out the obvious. it gets old dude. your a fan of VR. that mush is obvious. just try not to be such a bopper.



oh and jumkie. some of us have been around long enough to understand why you say some of the things you do. so don't go off being to hard on yourself.

Anyone know if HRC give riders performance bonuses, like written into the contracts? I remember it being reported that Stoner signed for $5 million US, however true that may be, but there never seems to be a mention of incentives.



I just hope he's on a huge incentive contract, wins 15 races, scores 435 points, banks $20,000,000, and gives a polite finger to the Marlboro Man.

cangaceiro said:

For them to offer less than half lorenzo's offer, is to say either we do not think you are worth that much, or we think you are worth it, but we are so clever and we think you are so stupid, we can get away with offering half his salary and you will take it. Either is insulting. If Stoner accepted, He would have been saying, yes i am not worth that much or yes i am stupid. So really, how could he not go elsewhere?

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Now substitute Stoner with Rossi and Ducati with Yamaha. Wouldn't Yamaha offering the money they cut from Rossi's salary to Lorenzo offend/insult him?

Renjith said:

Now substitute Stoner with Rossi and Ducati with Yamaha. Wouldn't Yamaha offering the money they cut from Rossi's salary to Lorenzo offend/insult him?

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More to the point wouldn't it be an absolute insult to attempt to pay one rider twice as much as the other when their performance and potential are so similar. Lorenzo was not that stupid, and Yamaha did the only sensible thing, pay the man what he was worth.

Renjith said:

Now substitute Stoner with Rossi and Ducati with Yamaha. Wouldn't Yamaha offering the money they cut from Rossi's salary to Lorenzo offend/insult him?

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How?



Rossi was the second rider at Yam looking nowhere near as good a prospect as Lorenzo ....





Stoner has been ......... Ducati ...........



What you are proposing is that they should be paying Hayden Bucketloads more than Stoner





I know you Boppers love the showmanship and celebrity side of things but I doubt any of the Japanese manufacturers pay based on such ....... attributes .... Ducati on the other hand , may be a different story





Not sure where I saw it either, but there was a breakdown on the current earnings of the riders and I thought Stoner was second to Rossi ? This I thought was apparently a measure by Ducati to rectify the "affront" of offering Lorenzo more than Stoner himself. It was however too late .... Honda I believe had already secured Casey, he is after all the most sort after rider, and Honda wanted him ..... and nobody else.



Ducati sure are good at shooting themselves in the foot

cangaceiro said:

Thanks Baz. I can see how that helps turning on long sweepers, but Stoner implies nicky can't keep traction riding like that? Why should it help stoner then? Thats where I not sure i understand his comment.

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Not sure he implies he can't keep traction, especially when one considers that whilst sliding one has broken traction. I think what he says is that Hayden does not keep forward speed when sliding ( breaking traction ). This is an area Stoner does know how to do ........ and I'm beginning to wonder f its a technique that is peculiar to Aust. dirt track ........ especially after all the "backing in" discussions and the insistence of some that Hayden uses the rear brake to break traction, a definite way to loose speed in corners from what I remember

One would need to have access to bothe riders telemetry to work it out, but that ain't gunna happen ......... but I do remember early in Haydens Ducati stint they said he rides the rear brake too much and was loosing speed ........ suggests that someone in Ducati has been lucky enough to analyse both riders data and was able to say "hey look Nicky ..... this is what Casey does .... " Probably about the time of Haydens comment that "whatever they are paying him its not enough" I guess its pretty spooky, especially if he's doing it at in excess of say 200km/h on tarmac



May also explain Spies regular comments about Casey suggesting that he just can't figure out his method.

Tom said:

More to the point wouldn't it be an absolute insult to attempt to pay one rider twice as much as the other when their performance and potential are so similar. Lorenzo was not that stupid, and Yamaha did the only sensible thing, pay the man what he was worth.

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Bingo.

Talpa said:

Typical reaction by you, note I never changed my mind on the box, I just pointed out the hilarious reactions to JB's latest comments by those who have been vilifying and ridiculing him for the past 6 months, above are more pathetic detraction's when your obviously flawed POV's are pointed out so easily........



Gonna ask me to leave again? Found that proof yet?

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Again with the gross exaggerations. Nobody ever vilified Burgess. That's absurd.

He was mocked for his hubris - as a result of his remarks to the effect that he could

get the Ducati ship-shape in 80 seconds. Other than that

he's always been accorded great respect by everyone here on the forum.

Tom said:

More to the point wouldn't it be an absolute insult to attempt to pay one rider twice as much as the other when their performance and potential are so similar. Lorenzo was not that stupid, and Yamaha did the only sensible thing, pay the man what he was worth.

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Absolutely right. Now look from Rossi's perspective. Regardless of the fact that Lorenzo beat him in the 2010 year, he had to take a paycut when the market was offering more. Jumkie says that Yamaha offered him the same - that's rubbish otherwise what would Lorenzo then be paid?



I have no issues with either perspective - Lorenzo, having Yamaha meet his demands and Rossi for going where the market was pulling him. Ultimately, manufacturers just cannot afford to pay more than one person the dollars Rossi was on - this forces movement between teams. Over here in Australia, we have salary caps for certain sports which result in the same. One team cannot be stacked with all the top players simply because they have the deepest pockets. I think people are turning the machinations of this pay issue into something untoward but it is simply a reality of international sport and business today.



I think Lorenzo did the right thing. I think Rossi did the right thing. I think Stoner did the right thing. It's all business in all three situations. The people paying the bills make the decisions and cut or keep riders depending on the ... that they had the night before. The smart choice that the riders have is to put their career/life first before the manufacturers' businesses because when the shoe is on the other foot, they are gone when times change. All three made absolutely the right decisions. Lorenzo would have sucked on the Ducati, Yamaha gave him a championship, they gave him enough money. Rossi could have stayed at Yamaha after taking a significant paycut that ended up going to his teammate because of his performance, he had a better offer at Ducati and he has a limited time left. He should be maximising his earnings and starting to think about life after racing. Stoner, was 'sick' or couldn't sell cigarettes, Marlboro didn't believe him or however it went, they looked elsewhere and the size of the offer was made public, Stoner felt unappreciated and betrayed and so he moved on. Right decision - and with Honda, he won't have 90% of the issues that he had with the old bike at Ducati. If he had an offer from Honda sooner, he should have taken it sooner.

Renjith said:

Now substitute Stoner with Rossi and Ducati with Yamaha. Wouldn't Yamaha offering the money they cut from Rossi's salary to Lorenzo offend/insult him?

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Uhh... excuse me. That is not what occurred at Yamaha. They didn't offer Lorenzo double the salary. Your comparison is bukwas.

Moreover - Rossi had sustained two very serious injuries, one to the leg and the second to the shoulder making him a great

unknown - yet Yamaha were generous enough to offer to keep him on with a considerable paycheck despite

the fact that he was damaged goods. Lorenzo had won the championship and Rossi was then in the position of being the #2 rider. #2 riders don't get paid the same as a reigning champ - especially not in a recession. Stop trying to make Rossi look like a martyr. He's a victim of his own hubris.

He made his bed and now he's lying in it. Get over it.

cangaceiro said:

Renjith - if they were paying Rossi $2 and Lorenzo $1 and then they decided to pay them both $1.50, taking the $0.50 from Rossi's salary, then yeah Rossi was probably going to be upset. The thing is, that's still offering equal pay. What if they offered Rossi $1 and Lorenzo $2. That's the situation Stoner was in, so they're saying your not even worth the same, or half, you're worth less than that.



The Ducati management spat in Stoner's face and then say, what? you're leaving? I'm wondering now whether Marlboro made this decision for Ducati, b/c they must have known the way it would go down.



On the other hand, Aussie/US riders are not going to be as popular with the sponsors as Europeans, so for Ducati maybe it was just business. Lucky for Stoner Honda have a good business.

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Yup. And Id like to add that, with the recent increase in Stoner's popularity, it may pay off for Honda marketing as well. Right now, he's probably the man to have if you want to race on sunday and sell on monday.



Conversely, I'd also say that there must be a lot of sponsors that already have doubts about sponsoring Rossi's latest venture.

stiefel said:

Yup. And Id like to add that, with the recent increase in Stoner's popularity, it may pay off for Honda marketing as well. Right now, he's probably the man to have if you want to race on sunday and sell on monday.



Conversely, I'd also say that there must be a lot of sponsors that already have doubts about sponsoring Rossi's latest venture.

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Stoner doesn't sell anywhere near as many bikes as Rossi and other top riders in the sport do/have.



Even Lorenzo is much better known to mainstream fans. Stoner's a very good rider, but he has no personality, isn't very marketable and is always putting his foot in his mouth. It's why Ducati were happy to pay Lorenzo more - just as much talent and far more marketability.