Comparing stoner to doohan is like like comparing beer to diet soda! Doohan is one of my heroes not only a tough sob but a brillant business man and party animal (in his times). Ohh and all his championships too. I ran into him at laguna 07 while extremly intoxicated and he was cool (from what I remember)
Bombshell!! Casey Stoner signs with Honda!
- Thread starter shovelhead
- Start date
Comparing stoner to doohan is like like comparing beer to diet soda! Doohan is one of my heroes not only a tough sob but a brillant business man and party animal (in his times). Ohh and all his championships too. I ran into him at laguna 07 while extremly intoxicated and he was cool (from what I remember)
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Pure nonsense. To date, Stoner has blown away Doohans numbers in their first five seasons, and has done it against the best who has ever ridden. Stoners competition is light years ahead of what Doohan had to face. Doohan started his domination after Rainey suffered his crippling injury. There is no telling how many more titles Rainey would have won. He was leading the points for the season in what would have been his 4th straight title. But that is racing. After Rainey went down and Schwantz faded, Doohan rattled off 5 straight titles against maybe the weakest collection of riders the sport has seen from top to bottom. It was an era that begged someone to dominate, and Doohan did. He certainly did not have a Rossi or Lorenzo to contend with during his streak.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Did Doohan, considered by many a Legend of our Sport, have an average of 50% Championship Wins in as many as he participated in Top Class?
Let's see; 5 / 11 = 45.45%... Wow. Also considering two second places, one third and one fourth, out of six of the whole Championships he did not win… Wow again. That 9th place as a Rookie is not nice, and the last one in 17th says nothing derived of his severe accident. So I am willing to lower my Standard of 'IT' to Dohaan's level before considering a Rider has 'IT'! (Like if Dohaan could in any way be considered 'Low', listen to me, ....!).
You see, so far none of the 3 'aliens' left, match Doohan's or Rossi's numbers. Remember 7 / 10 = 70% Championships being wan, with a second place Rookie year and a lowest third place finish overall!
Could it perhaps work in Lorenso's #2 rider spot for Hayden to get top 3?
Bayliss has a Win with the Duc! So does Capirossi's 7 wins! Though they are a bit old to kick Championships butts!
Still, the whole career's average of eleven Seasons says a lot to be trustworthy!
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
I expect better from you compa. How the .... is Stoner not a "true Aussie"? Stoner rode very well on the Honda
but - as is well known - had ...... Michelin tires. Remember... everybody who switched from Michelin to Bridgestones
improved greatly. Remember how much DePuniet used to crash??? To say Stoner does not have championship
mentality is just plain silly. When he won in 2007 - he won decisively. Much more so than Hayden did the year before.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
He's only had two years on a factory bike. The time to make comparisons will be when Stoner has been
riding MotoGp for as many years as Doohan.
My guess is no matter how many races he wins - people will complain that he's not as tough, gritty, hard-drinkin'
etc. as Doohan. Stoner doesn't have that neanderthal-macho factor that makes some riders (in the mind of macho
types) greater than the others. Hailwood and Agostini didn't have it either - but I don't see anybody bad-mouthing them.
Hold on a sec. Stoner had ...... Michelin's on the Honda and everyone was switching to stones you say ?? that was back in 06 stoner was riding the Honda on the french rubber and at that time they were the tyres to have. The Michelin trouble and consequent defection took place in 08. wtf you going on about Kesh ?? your post reminded me of something funny tho.. Remember stoner claiming some Honda spy's were breaking into his garage in the dark of night and changing settings on his bike or changing the tyres
He's only had two years on a factory bike. The time to make comparisons will be when Stoner has been
riding MotoGp for as many years as Doohan.
My guess is no matter how many races he wins - people will complain that he's not as tough, gritty, hard-drinkin'
etc. as Doohan. Stoner doesn't have that neanderthal-macho factor that makes some riders (in the mind of macho
types) greater than the others. Hailwood and Agostini didn't have it either - but I don't see anybody bad-mouthing them.
Are you for real ?
He's only had two years on a factory bike. The time to make comparisons will be when Stoner has been
riding MotoGp for as many years as Doohan.
My guess is no matter how many races he wins - people will complain that he's not as tough, gritty, hard-drinkin'
etc. as Doohan. Stoner doesn't have that neanderthal-macho factor that makes some riders (in the mind of macho
types) greater than the others. Hailwood and Agostini didn't have it either - but I don't see anybody bad-mouthing them.
bop.......bop.........bop........bop.........toss!
....... rubbish
what tyres did the top three finishers in the title race run from let's say 02-06?? BS gained dominance in 07-08 with a major rule change and several resurfaced tracks.
Anyone who compares cs to Doohan at this point needs to be shot
the ridiculous claim that mighty Mick didn't have much competition is twarted before even considering the other riders, Mick was riding an nsr500, probably the most dangerous race bike ever made, with a leg more metal than human which couldn't operate the rear brake so he adapted to a lever on the bars.......this doesn't seem tough at all? The man is a motorcycle racing legend and I certainly wouldn't be putting stoner into this league at present.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Its a commonly held opinion in Australia ( hence correct ) that Stoner is the next Doohan.
Except by the likes of Talpa
I also wonder if Doohan is behind the attempt to get Stoner in some way.
But I would also see that Doohan would be trying to get Burgess in Stoners camp as well.
They are pretty parachial types underneath.
Except by the likes of Talpa
I also wonder if Doohan is behind the attempt to get Stoner in some way.
But I would also see that Doohan would be trying to get Burgess in Stoners camp as well.
They are pretty parachial types underneath.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Its been well documented that Michelin had an A tire, that certain riders got
, and B tires that everyone else got. Doohan was the dominant rider of his era and is a legend in the sport. The NSR might have been dangerous, but it WAS the weapon of choice if you wanted to win. With that being said, you cant hide from the fact that Stoner has close to 3 times the wins and a title in his first 5 years. Nor can you hide from the fact that Stoner is doing it against Rossi, Doohan was doing it against Criville, a nice rider, but certainly no Rossi, or Lorenzo, or even Pedrosa.. This is the core group that Doohan dominated.
Japan Tadayuki Okada
Japan Nobuatsu Aoki
Spain Àlex Crivillé
Japan Takuma Aoki
Italy Luca Cadalora
Japan Norifumi Abe
Spain Carlos Checa
Brazil Alex Barros
Italy Doriano Romboni
I liked Doohan, he was my kind of guy, but to say that Casey Stoner is overrated is obscene. He is not the tough guy that Doohan was, but is one hell of a rider who will run off a string of Doohan like dominance if Rossi leaves in the next few years
Japan Tadayuki Okada
Japan Nobuatsu Aoki
Spain Àlex Crivillé
Japan Takuma Aoki
Italy Luca Cadalora
Japan Norifumi Abe
Spain Carlos Checa
Brazil Alex Barros
Italy Doriano Romboni
I liked Doohan, he was my kind of guy, but to say that Casey Stoner is overrated is obscene. He is not the tough guy that Doohan was, but is one hell of a rider who will run off a string of Doohan like dominance if Rossi leaves in the next few years
DO NOT compare Stacey with Doohan
1st reason
Stacey ( Stoner) = week mentally
Doohan = (figure it out you self) Great rider
Btw. Stacey on Honda just like 2006 and same like he was on the duc (on turn 6/7 stoner crash)
1st reason
Stacey ( Stoner) = week mentally
Doohan = (figure it out you self) Great rider
Btw. Stacey on Honda just like 2006 and same like he was on the duc (on turn 6/7 stoner crash)
Joined Jun 2006
2K Posts | 20+
south wales UK
First up I will say why all the hate towads Stoner (yes I am a fan)? Yeah the guy did crash on Hondas but he was still quick (I do believe he got on the podium) and the bike and tyres are different beasts since then. Yet as soon as he got on a Duck he was blazingly quick. He made Capirossi look like a fool over and over again, not to mention Melandri both of these guys where multiple 250 world champions.
Also there are many riders that are suited towards one package than another so why would it seem odd that he did take to the Ducati?
People bring up the argument about the electronics package used on the Duck, I believe that if they look closely the Yamaha has one of the most sophisticated packages out there. If fact didn't Rossi at one stage make a commet "it is so easy it almost feels like cheating"?
To say Stoner has no talent is bordering on ludicrous, I am not a particlar fan of Lorenzo (in fact I dislike the egotisical SOB more than the no personality Pedbot) but those guys have some serious talent. People also say the Duck was designed around Casey couldn't the same be said about Pedbot and his 250?
Also I believe Nicky Hayden has been pretty open about the help that Casey has given him in respect with coming to grips with the Ducati. No one has really given him credit for this also. How much of Nickys improved perfomance can also be attributed to Caseys help? And yes I do believe that he probably will stop helping him to the same degree now that Nicky is closer (couldn't the same be said for Rossi and Lorenzo?). I really do not think however that Nicky will be consistently close to Casey for the rest of the year. There will be times when he is close or maybe will go past him but the only reason Hayden got close in spain is because Casey chose a result over a crash (and did anyone actually notice how close he was behid Nicky at the finish line also?)
Just for the record I am a Hayden fan
There is absolutley no reason why Casey wouldn't win on a Honda (if the rumor is infact true). He still is one of the fastest riders on the Motogp grid to date. Even with his front end problems he still managed to qualify 3rd in Spain. He made the right decision on slowing down and taking the points.
I guess in the end I believe that whatever decision Casey does make I believe he will be successful, I'm sure that Livio Suppo will make sure that Casey gets what he needs if he does go to Honda and if he stays at Ducati they will look after him there also, after all he has given them their only MotoGp World Championship and a bunch of race wins to boot!
Any talk just makes it all the more interesting about what in fact is going to happen.
Cheers
The Gecko Hunter.
nope its in his book if i remember correctly ? that was his comment when he tried out honda's first prototype traction controll system, i think it was what he said to JB after testing it??
Its been well documented that Michelin had an A tire, that certain riders got, and B tires that everyone else got. Doohan was the dominant rider of his era and is a legend in the sport. The NSR might have been dangerous, but it WAS the weapon of choice if you wanted to win. With that being said, you cant hide from the fact that Stoner has close to 3 times the wins and a title in his first 5 years. Nor can you hide from the fact that Stoner is doing it against Rossi, Doohan was doing it against Criville, a nice rider, but certainly no Rossi, or Lorenzo, or even Pedrosa.. This is the core group that Doohan dominated.
Japan Tadayuki Okada
Japan Nobuatsu Aoki
Spain Àlex Crivillé
Japan Takuma Aoki
Italy Luca Cadalora
Japan Norifumi Abe
Spain Carlos Checa
Brazil Alex Barros
Italy Doriano Romboni
I liked Doohan, he was my kind of guy, but to say that Casey Stoner is overrated is obscene. He is not the tough guy that Doohan was, but is one hell of a rider who will run off a string of Doohan like dominance if Rossi leaves in the next few years
Japan Tadayuki Okada: Top Class = 4 Wins, 250 = 2 Wins.
Japan Nobuatsu Aoki: 250 = 1 Win.
Spain Àlex Crivillé: Top Class = 15 Wins, 125 = 5 Wins.
Japan Takuma Aoki: Nada!
Italy Luca Cadalora: Top Class = 8 Wins, 250 = 22 Wins, 125 = 4 Wins.
Japan Norifumi Abe: Nada!
Spain Carlos Checa: Top Class = 2 Wins.
Brazil Alex Barros: Top Class = 7 Wins.
Italy Doriano Romboni: 250 = 4 Wins, 125 = 2 Wins.
Also Top Class Riders from 1989 – 1999 with wins:
France Regis Laconi: Top Class = 1 Win.
USA Kenny Roberts Jr.: Top Class = 8 Wins.
Japan Norick Abe: Top Class = 3 Wins.
Italy Max Biaggi: Top Class = 13 Wins, 250 = 29 Wins.
New Zealand Simon Crafar: Top Class = 1 Win.
Italy Loris Capirossi: Top Class = 8 Wins, 250 = 13 Wins, 125 = 8 Wins.
Spain Alberto Puig: Top Class = 1 Win.
Australia Daryl Beattie: Top Class = 3 Wins.
USA Kevin Schwantz: Top Class = 25 Wins.
USA John Kocinski: Top Class = 13 Wins.
USA Wayne Rainey: Top Class = 24 Wins.
Australia Wayne Gardner: Top Class = 18 Wins.
USA Eddie Lawson: Top Class = 31 Wins.
Italy Pierfrancesco Chili: Top Class = 5 Wins.
You seem to have omitted some mayor Riders during Doohans days, Riders on the caliber of Rainey and Schwantz, that were riding when Doohan wan his first race and so on!
Nice omission, but did not work!
The comments about Michellin and Caseys issues are valid, he got B spec rubber every race day.
Doohan is brilliant, but a very different charachter to Casey, they both have shone in their respective eras. I tend to think Casey, when its all said and done, will be remembered the better rider, but at this point Doohan has the titles on the board.
But either way I dont see how Casey is over rated, he is on almost the same level as the GOAT and at many times out right faster. In my opinion anyone who can compete with Rossi the way he does deserves every bit of praise they get.
Doohan is brilliant, but a very different charachter to Casey, they both have shone in their respective eras. I tend to think Casey, when its all said and done, will be remembered the better rider, but at this point Doohan has the titles on the board.
But either way I dont see how Casey is over rated, he is on almost the same level as the GOAT and at many times out right faster. In my opinion anyone who can compete with Rossi the way he does deserves every bit of praise they get.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Japan Tadayuki Okada: Top Class = 4 Wins, 250 = 2 Wins.
Japan Nobuatsu Aoki: 250 = 1 Win.
Spain Àlex Crivillé: Top Class = 15 Wins, 125 = 5 Wins.
Japan Takuma Aoki: Nada!
Italy Luca Cadalora: Top Class = 8 Wins, 250 = 22 Wins, 125 = 4 Wins.
Japan Norifumi Abe: Nada!
Spain Carlos Checa: Top Class = 2 Wins.
Brazil Alex Barros: Top Class = 7 Wins.
Italy Doriano Romboni: 250 = 4 Wins, 125 = 2 Wins.
Also Top Class Riders from 1989 – 1999 with wins:
France Regis Laconi: Top Class = 1 Win.
USA Kenny Roberts Jr.: Top Class = 8 Wins.
Japan Norick Abe: Top Class = 3 Wins.
Italy Max Biaggi: Top Class = 13 Wins, 250 = 29 Wins.
New Zealand Simon Crafar: Top Class = 1 Win.
Italy Loris Capirossi: Top Class = 8 Wins, 250 = 13 Wins, 125 = 8 Wins.
Spain Alberto Puig: Top Class = 1 Win.
Australia Daryl Beattie: Top Class = 3 Wins.
USA Kevin Schwantz: Top Class = 25 Wins.
USA John Kocinski: Top Class = 13 Wins.
USA Wayne Rainey: Top Class = 24 Wins.
Australia Wayne Gardner: Top Class = 18 Wins.
USA Eddie Lawson: Top Class = 31 Wins.
Italy Pierfrancesco Chili: Top Class = 5 Wins.
You seem to have omitted some mayor Riders during Doohans days, Riders on the caliber of Rainey and Schwantz, that were riding when Doohan wan his first race and so on!
Nice omission, but did not work!
It has been covered. When Rainey was racing, Doohan wasnt winning championships, his dominance didnt begin till after Rainey was crippled. Schwantz was beat to death from wrecking so much and Rainey's misfortune spooked him into retirement. Like i said, Doohans domination came over the core group of riders i listed.
Casey's tires were probably equivalent to most of the other Michelin tires on the grid. Casey didn't get the 250-style Pedrosa front tire b/c it was a new development, but I reckon he got the same stuff as most of the other Michelin riders. Casey simply pushed the front too hard during his rookie season which resulted in plenty of front end crashes. I don't think he was the victim of any tire problems until the 2008 season.
Joined Feb 2007
6K Posts | 58+
Rovrum S,Yorks Eng
Is the Rubber situation (being comfortable with it) a big thing with Casey.
We've seen it many times and now in 2010 he's having front end issues
is it this that could be his down fall from being a true Doohan / Goat
Rubber issues killed Crafer's career .yeah hes not in there league^^ but it can get to ppl
We've seen it many times and now in 2010 he's having front end issues
is it this that could be his down fall from being a true Doohan / Goat
Rubber issues killed Crafer's career .yeah hes not in there league^^ but it can get to ppl
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