Bloody Tyres

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gsfan @ Oct 24 2007, 05:47 PM) [snapback]96957[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
It's amusing to think that Rossi would feel only the tires held him back from humiliating Stoner. The last race proved otherwise.


I would like to think that stoner would have beaten rossi if they were both on ducati/bridgestones. However I don't think a hypothetical stoner clone on yamaha/michelins would have any chance against stoner on ducati/bridgestones.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vale4607 @ Oct 24 2007, 05:36 PM) [snapback]96950[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I was re-reading the thread trying to find the other factors you and jazkat came up with for Rossi's two "bad" seasons. Didn't seem to find any. Although Barry probably had something to do with it.

I would love it if you mentioned Yamaha and the man himself as part of this equation but alas it seems that the Bridgestone shod whatever bike Mr. 46 is riding will win it just like the old days.

By the way wasn't Rossi leading going into the final round last season? I seem to recall Hayden performing very well on the ...... Michelin's that day.

as i said, there were many factors, tyres failing , the bike failing, mistakes made by rossi and other riders taking him into the gravel, all part of racing but if you can eliminate even 1 of theses its worth more points in the championship and thats what he is doing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gsfan @ Oct 24 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]96957[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
It's amusing to think that Rossi would feel only the tires held him back from humiliating Stoner. The last race proved otherwise.


Actually, Rossi has never said anything like that. After the last GP he declared that this season the problem has not been just the tyres, but the Yamaha as well, or even more.

Just to be accurate about his complains, that this year have been more than one

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rising Sun @ Oct 24 2007, 06:07 PM) [snapback]96951[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

So you think I'm a hater now, too. Thanks, Rog. I hate that you can't read. I did give Rossi the benefit of the doubt. I didn't extend the same courtesy to Dorna, however. Dennis Noyes is not some faceless journo, either.
So, you know what I want and don't want now, do you? Not above indulging in baseless speculation yourself, are you?


i can read just fine, mabe its no so much rossi you hate but what should his fans make of this ?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>To be honest, all you Rossi fluffers are gettin' on my .... [wanna call me a hater, fine; fluffer is a label all you Rossi fanboys deserve]. You keep blurring the debate, by trying to make it seem like it just a simple tyre change.

i8f you read bikergirls posts you will see dorna ceo flatly denied giveing bridgstone any ultimatums but you prefer to believe Dennis noyes, thats fine but im not buying into it, and because of this im a "fluffer" well thanks for that mate !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rising Sun @ Oct 24 2007, 06:27 PM) [snapback]96954[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I tell you what, if Rossi lines up on Michelins next year, I will put in my .sig: "I was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG about the whole Bridgestone/Dorna fiasco. My judgement on matters MotoGP is poor, and nothing that I post should ever be taken seriously."I don't want you to do anything of the sort, I just want to wait until it's actually announced

well i dont mind being the runt of the litter lol, i like the idea of being the fool of the forum atleast now you got someone to laugh at rather than kick you pc in anger

i do think tho if it was the otherway round stoner on the yam probably wouldnt have been WC, he is clearly a good rider but with the stones and the duke he is untouchable, even the traction control seems to work real good on the red demon.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Oct 24 2007, 07:36 PM) [snapback]96965[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
well i dont mind being the runt of the litter lol, i like the idea of being the fool of the forum atleast now you got someone to laugh at rather than kick you pc in anger

i do think tho if it was the otherway round stoner on the yam probably wouldnt have been WC, he is clearly a good rider but with the stones and the duke he is untouchable, even the traction control seems to work real good on the red demon.




You made me think - if Rossi had won on the Michelins by a country mile and Stoner on the Duke had wanted a change to Michelins, including talking to Dorna about helping him make that happen, do you think anyone would have given a .....

Not to take anything away from Stoner (Well deserving champ), or from Bridgestone.

BTW - It's a crazy world where every poster who may be considered (by some) to be dissing Stoner or the Stones, to have to add a whole sentence to a post to ensure that no-one thinks they are also doing this...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yamaka46 @ Oct 24 2007, 09:59 PM) [snapback]96982[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
You made me think - if Rossi had won on the Michelins by a country mile and Stoner on the Duke had wanted a change to Michelins, including talking to Dorna about helping him make that happen, do you think anyone would have given a .....

Not to take anything away from Stoner (Well deserving champ), or from Bridgestone.

BTW - It's a crazy world where every poster who may be considered (by some) to be dissing Stoner or the Stones, to have to add a whole sentence to a post to ensure that no-one thinks they are also doing this...

only if you have rossi as your favorite rider

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 24 2007, 10:03 PM) [snapback]96983[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
only if you have rossi as your favorite rider

Well you can see by my avatar that I need to apologise for any pro-Rossi post

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yamaka46 @ Oct 24 2007, 08:59 PM) [snapback]96982[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
You made me think - if Rossi had won on the Michelins by a country mile and Stoner on the Duke had wanted a change to Michelins, including talking to Dorna about helping him make that happen, do you think anyone would have given a .....

Not to take anything away from Stoner (Well deserving champ), or from Bridgestone.

BTW - It's a crazy world where every poster who may be considered (by some) to be dissing Stoner or the Stones, to have to add a whole sentence to a post to ensure that no-one thinks they are also doing this...

This is precisely the point. This is only an issue because it is rossi. I think if even fellow world champions like stoner or hayden had arranged to change tyres without precipitating a manufacturer's' withdrawal from the sport, there would be little discussion. There is even precedent for different tyres in the same team. It will be tough on michelin if it occurs, but this doesn't mean rossi is not entitled to give himself what he perceives to be the best chance. You could even argue that michelin were pressuring dorna and rossi by threatening to withdraw.

I joined the forum because I was annoyed that the rossi fans were giving stoner little or no credit earlier this year, but the pendulum has now swung the other way.

I just thought of another possible outcome from all this ..... lets say Rossi gets Bridgstones .... then goes even worse in 2008 ....

The fans are going to say well that proves Michelin are better .......

Now given that Rossi has now been getting progressively poorer results, over the last few years .... I would think that Bridgestone see signing him as a liability .... maybe thats where the pressure on Bridgestone is ... maybe they realise that and hence don't wish to supply, given "the form" suggests they will go worse.

Frankly if I was a Bridgestone exec. I would be ...... worried .... to sign Rossi ..... I know the Rossi fans will say "oh but no you look next year he will be back!!!" ..... but would you bet you companies future profit on that??

Lets face it Stoner winning this year must be worth a mint to Bridgestone in sales ...... I know I like bridgestones best LOL

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 25 2007, 02:51 PM) [snapback]97061[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I just thought of another possible outcome from all this ..... lets say Rossi gets Bridgstones .... then goes even worse in 2008 ....

The fans are going to say well that proves Michelin are better .......

Now given that Rossi has now been getting progressively poorer results, over the last few years .... I would think that Bridgestone see signing him as a liability .... maybe thats where the pressure on Bridgestone is ... maybe they realise that and hence don't wish to supply, given "the form" suggests they will go worse.

Frankly if I was a Bridgestone exec. I would be ...... worried .... to sign Rossi ..... I know the Rossi fans will say "oh but no you look next year he will be back!!!" ..... but would you bet you companies future profit on that??

Lets face it Stoner winning this year must be worth a mint to Bridgestone in sales ...... I know I like bridgestones best LOL


I don't think so... Rossi winning on Bridgestone would be bigger.
Casey is a young rider hes not a worldwide star yet.

Rossi is not a liability he still wins races every year.

Bridgestone want Rossi on their tyres but they had their hands tied a little because they want Michelin to stay!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Oct 25 2007, 11:54 PM) [snapback]97064[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I don't think so... Rossi winning on Bridgestone would be bigger.

Boy you are confident that Rossi will win!!!! confident enough to gamble with the future of a large multinational company you have nothing to do with

If you don't understand the implication of this .... take out a legal agreement that you will give me your car or moto in the event that Rossi does not go better on Bridgestones. Its business/profits ... not just words!!



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Oct 25 2007, 11:54 PM) [snapback]97064[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Rossi is not a liability he still wins races every year.

Then you just answered why all this stuff about tyres is crap!! He won a few times on Michelins this year .... and we all know how good Michelin are!! ..... why they are casuing Rossi to lose at present!! ..... according to some


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Oct 25 2007, 11:54 PM) [snapback]97064[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Bridgestone want Rossi on their tyres but they had their hands tied a little because they want Michelin to stay!

Why would Bridgestone want Michelin to stay??? I would think Bridgestone would love to sell tyres to all the Michelin customers .... if there were any left this year


Its all a convoluted messy can of worms .... now I think .... for Dorna to force Bridgestone to supply Rossi ..... I think it would be like making someone dig their own grave.....

If Bridgestone want to supply him the fair enough ..... but I can see why they might not want to now.

Shoot!! now I think control tyres are the only fair thing!!

Bridgestones best possible option ..... refuse Rossi ....why?

because at present they look so good they propelled a "crasher kid" to the top of the motogp ladder .... fantastic tyres them Bridgestones


how good can a tyre get.


At best Rossi riding on them may prove them to be mediocre ... and indeed folk will say "well it was all Stoner and Ducati" .... Bridgestone lose their current perceived supremacy ....

Bridgestones best bet ...... keep Stoner looking good.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 25 2007, 03:32 PM) [snapback]97070[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Bridgestones best possible option ..... refuse Rossi ....why?

because at present they look so good they propelled a "crasher kid" to the top of the motogp ladder .... fantastic tyres them Bridgestones
how good can a tyre get.
At best Rossi riding on them may prove them to be mediocre ... and indeed folk will say "well it was all Stoner and Ducati" .... Bridgestone lose their current perceived supremacy ....

Bridgestones best bet ...... keep Stoner looking good.


Now where did I put that Troll Spray.....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yamaka46 @ Oct 26 2007, 07:04 AM) [snapback]97121[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Now where did I put that Troll Spray.....


well argue against it if you don't think its right .... I'm very open to discussion on it. Like An4rew did ... at least he gave his thoughts that he felt I was wrong and why he felt that way.


Otherwise your suggestion that you need the troll spray is merely and action simillar to a kid with the hands over the ears, and eyes closed singing "la la la la ..."

I am fully aware that you may not like what I wrote .... but it'd be nice to have you at least try to discount it ...... I may be very wrong!! if so it'd be nice to know the reasons ... hell we may all find out the information we seek that way.

If we "go the cans" it will just be you with your Troll spray, and me with my Denial Spray, at 50 paces!! Thats not good for the ozone layer

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 26 2007, 01:46 AM) [snapback]97135[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
well argue against it if you don't think its right .... I'm very open to discussion on it. Like An4rew did ... at least he gave his thoughts that he felt I was wrong and why he felt that way.
Otherwise your suggestion that you need the troll spray is merely and action simillar to a kid with the hands over the ears, and eyes closed singing "la la la la ..."

I am fully aware that you may not like what I wrote .... but it'd be nice to have you at least try to discount it ...... I may be very wrong!! if so it'd be nice to know the reasons ... hell we may all find out the information we seek that way.

If we "go the cans" it will just be you with your Troll spray, and me with my Denial Spray, at 50 paces!! Thats not good for the ozone layer


You got the first part right:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>
because at present they look so good they propelled a "crasher kid" to the top of the motogp ladder .... fantastic tyres them Bridgestones


The second is where the Troll shows it ugly head:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>
At best Rossi riding on them may prove them to be mediocre ... and indeed folk will say "well it was all Stoner and Ducati" .... Bridgestone lose their current perceived supremacy ....


We are are purly speculating about the possibility that Rossi end up on Bridgestone next year and how well he will do. So in that regard there is no proof, right or wrong. The only thing to prove you wrong on is your logic.
You say: "At <u>best </u>Rossi riding on them may prove them to be <u>mediocre</u>"
I doubt anyone will say the stones are medicore if Rossi crush all oposition next year, and that is a possibility you can not lock out. Even if you think it is very unlikely the possibility can not be overlooked Therefore: "At best Rossi riding on them may prove them to be by far the best" is the only logical outcome of the sentese. You can write the way you want but that is the only logical outcome. That's no speculation but pure logic.You've been proven wrong.

I know that would be hard to admit for someone who has made a forum "career" of using one, and only one "argument" or rather assumtion in almost every thing he write: "Rossi is past his best".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Oct 24 2007, 08:08 PM) [snapback]96959[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I would like to think that stoner would have beaten rossi if they were both on ducati/bridgestones. However I don't think a hypothetical stoner clone on yamaha/michelins would have any chance against stoner on ducati/bridgestones.


Very nice and effective way of putting it... They are all accusing Rossi because he wants Stones at all costs, and there is a lot of brows raised about 'loyalty' etc., but in fact no rider currently on Stones would ever swap tyres with Rossi or Pedrosa! Bet on it.

And no factory rider today would swap bike with Rossi either... The Yam is now - statistically - the worst of all the Jap official bikes, the average slowest and the less reliable. Only in the handling department it still scores some points. That's not enough. But if Rossi says it, then he 'moans..' Maybe he should just stay shut and go his way quietly, I agree, but he's not that wrong!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gsfan @ Oct 24 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]96957[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
It's amusing to think that Rossi would feel only the tires held him back from humiliating Stoner. The last race proved otherwise.

As a matter of fact, Rossi has categorically stated it was the bike that was lacking, as I just pointed out on another thread, in terms of 'Rossi fuss', he's had plenty more to say about Yam than his Michelins. All this tyre debate seems to have swamped the fact that Rossi is seriously pissed off at Yamaha and that Brivio is thumping his chest and chanting 'mea culpa'. The Italian press have covered this extensively. Yamaha, maybe through somehow believing Rossi could win on whatever piece of crap they provided, or maybe through complacency at having had him deliver a couple of recent titles to their door, have not been working their ..... off they way they should.
The thing is that when he complains about the Yam, that's not a pot worth stirring for journalists. He's signed up with them for another year anyway so he can complain all he wants, no one's getting anything out of it. The 'Rossi is disloyal and wants to junk his faithful old Michelins for Bridgestones, screwing up other riders in the process and making Dorna his accomplice in blackmail' does tend to have more or a ring to it doesn't it?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 25 2007, 03:10 PM) [snapback]97067[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Boy you are confident that Rossi will win!!!! confident enough to gamble with the future of a large multinational company you have nothing to do with


I never said he would win, i think they would be honored to have a 5 time motogp champ riding on their rubber... who wouldnt

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 25 2007, 03:10 PM) [snapback]97067[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Why would Bridgestone want Michelin to stay??? I would think Bridgestone would love to sell tyres to all the Michelin customers .... if there were any left this year


I think its been widely reported about Michelin possibly pulling out if they lost Honda or Yamaha top teams. So thats why Bridgestone didn't wanna immediately give their tyres to Rossi.

They want competition from other tyre manufacturers and to be honest showing up the other tyre manufacturers is more important to them than what any rider does individually.