<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Oct 23 2007, 07:42 PM) [snapback]96775[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
totally agree with you and to be honest the haters are gettin on my ...., yesterday i watched a story on casey stoner and he said that last season he was having problems because of the michelin tyres and has soon as he rode on bridgestone's he knew that is was the tires, he said the stones were unbelievable and was the answer to his problems also said he was never at ease on michelins........
so if it was the tyres for him why is it not the tyres for rossi????? maybe your just clutching at straws because you dont want the game to be even.
this is what rossi's tire looks like after a race and its been like this about 5+ times this season
cracking picture mate, sez it all. just posted that pic in another thread, same debate different thread.
totally agree with you and to be honest the haters are gettin on my ...., yesterday i watched a story on casey stoner and he said that last season he was having problems because of the michelin tyres and has soon as he rode on bridgestone's he knew that is was the tires, he said the stones were unbelievable and was the answer to his problems also said he was never at ease on michelins........
so if it was the tyres for him why is it not the tyres for rossi????? maybe your just clutching at straws because you dont want the game to be even.
this is what rossi's tire looks like after a race and its been like this about 5+ times this season
cracking picture mate, sez it all. just posted that pic in another thread, same debate different thread.
Joined Jun 2006
2K Posts | 20+
south wales UK
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 23 2007, 10:32 PM) [snapback]96807[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
cracking picture mate, sez it all. just posted that pic in another thread, same debate different thread.
thanks, i have some more on my pc somewhere, that tyre looks bad but i have a worse one lol, the other i got is a mechanic wheeling his bike into the garage and the back tyre looks like it had been left in a cage on ferrets overnight, part of the right side has rubber missing but the leftside is hammered and there is noway any rider could corner on it.
this debate is gettin way out of hand, i watched a vid of casey lastnight and it said on there that he never felt at ease on a michelin and that he was inspired by the bridgestone tyres and he says about lossing the bike last season,also says the stones are the answer to his problem.
casey is a awesome rider and i wont take nothing away from him, but what annoys me is that some people here ignore the fact that a tyre change is what rossi needs cos the michelins just aint cutting it, but they seem blind to the fact rossi cant challenge stoner because his tyres arent upto the job.
cracking picture mate, sez it all. just posted that pic in another thread, same debate different thread.
thanks, i have some more on my pc somewhere, that tyre looks bad but i have a worse one lol, the other i got is a mechanic wheeling his bike into the garage and the back tyre looks like it had been left in a cage on ferrets overnight, part of the right side has rubber missing but the leftside is hammered and there is noway any rider could corner on it.
this debate is gettin way out of hand, i watched a vid of casey lastnight and it said on there that he never felt at ease on a michelin and that he was inspired by the bridgestone tyres and he says about lossing the bike last season,also says the stones are the answer to his problem.
casey is a awesome rider and i wont take nothing away from him, but what annoys me is that some people here ignore the fact that a tyre change is what rossi needs cos the michelins just aint cutting it, but they seem blind to the fact rossi cant challenge stoner because his tyres arent upto the job.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Oct 23 2007, 10:56 PM) [snapback]96810[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
thanks, i have some more on my pc somewhere, that tyre looks bad but i have a worse one lol, the other i got is a mechanic wheeling his bike into the garage and the back tyre looks like it had been left in a cage on ferrets overnight, part of the right side has rubber missing but the leftside is hammered and there is noway any rider could corner on it.
this debate is gettin way out of hand, i watched a vid of casey lastnight and it said on there that he never felt at ease on a michelin and that he was inspired by the bridgestone tyres and he says about lossing the bike last season,also says the stones are the answer to his problem.
casey is a awesome rider and i wont take nothing away from him, but what annoys me is that some people here ignore the fact that a tyre change is what rossi needs cos the michelins just aint cutting it, but they seem blind to the fact rossi cant challenge stoner because his tyres arent upto the job.
well mate, you no what they say, "a picture speaks a thousand words" love to see the orther pics you have.
thanks, i have some more on my pc somewhere, that tyre looks bad but i have a worse one lol, the other i got is a mechanic wheeling his bike into the garage and the back tyre looks like it had been left in a cage on ferrets overnight, part of the right side has rubber missing but the leftside is hammered and there is noway any rider could corner on it.
this debate is gettin way out of hand, i watched a vid of casey lastnight and it said on there that he never felt at ease on a michelin and that he was inspired by the bridgestone tyres and he says about lossing the bike last season,also says the stones are the answer to his problem.
casey is a awesome rider and i wont take nothing away from him, but what annoys me is that some people here ignore the fact that a tyre change is what rossi needs cos the michelins just aint cutting it, but they seem blind to the fact rossi cant challenge stoner because his tyres arent upto the job.
well mate, you no what they say, "a picture speaks a thousand words" love to see the orther pics you have.
I say give Rossi the Bridgestones on the condition that he stops fingering his balls on camera every time he goes out on the track. Give them a rest buddy!!!
Joined Oct 2006
445 Posts | 43+
Adelaide, Australia
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Oct 24 2007, 03:42 AM) [snapback]96775[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
totally agree with you and to be honest the haters are gettin on my ....,
To be honest, all you Rossi fluffers are gettin' on my .... [wanna call me a hater, fine; fluffer is a label all you Rossi fanboys deserve]. You keep blurring the debate, by trying to make it seem like it just a simple tyre change.
The debate is about Rossi getting Bridgestones in spite of the fact that Bridgestone, on more than one occasion this year, stated that they can't or won't supply any more riders and teams in the future--and specifically ruled out supplying factory Hondas and Yamahas.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Oct 24 2007, 03:42 AM) [snapback]96775[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
so if it was the tyres for him why is it not the tyres for rossi????? maybe your just clutching at straws because you dont want the game to be even.
Just like Roger's fear theory, more muddying of the waters...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Oct 24 2007, 03:42 AM) [snapback]96775[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
this is what rossi's tire looks like after a race and its been like this about 5+ times this season
Ooooooh, cry me a ....... river. Yeah, he had a .... tyre for Istanbul (nothing wrong with Hayden's that day, though; guess all Michelins aren't equal), or is that from Laguna Seca? It happens. Michelin have to lift their game, end of story. Looks like they have, at the moment. Sepang offers some of the most testing conditions for tyres, and Rossi was able to do his fastest lap of the race on his second last lap of the race, had the race pace of the podium finishers.
And... 5+ times? List them all.
And, just for the record, I'm happy for Rossi to have Bridgestones--but only if Pedrosa and Hayden and Lorenzo can have them too. Why can't they? They want them. Maybe it's fear from the Rossi/Dorna/Scientologist conspiracy, who don't want the game to be even?
totally agree with you and to be honest the haters are gettin on my ....,
To be honest, all you Rossi fluffers are gettin' on my .... [wanna call me a hater, fine; fluffer is a label all you Rossi fanboys deserve]. You keep blurring the debate, by trying to make it seem like it just a simple tyre change.
The debate is about Rossi getting Bridgestones in spite of the fact that Bridgestone, on more than one occasion this year, stated that they can't or won't supply any more riders and teams in the future--and specifically ruled out supplying factory Hondas and Yamahas.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Oct 24 2007, 03:42 AM) [snapback]96775[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
so if it was the tyres for him why is it not the tyres for rossi????? maybe your just clutching at straws because you dont want the game to be even.
Just like Roger's fear theory, more muddying of the waters...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Oct 24 2007, 03:42 AM) [snapback]96775[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
this is what rossi's tire looks like after a race and its been like this about 5+ times this season
Ooooooh, cry me a ....... river. Yeah, he had a .... tyre for Istanbul (nothing wrong with Hayden's that day, though; guess all Michelins aren't equal), or is that from Laguna Seca? It happens. Michelin have to lift their game, end of story. Looks like they have, at the moment. Sepang offers some of the most testing conditions for tyres, and Rossi was able to do his fastest lap of the race on his second last lap of the race, had the race pace of the podium finishers.
And... 5+ times? List them all.
And, just for the record, I'm happy for Rossi to have Bridgestones--but only if Pedrosa and Hayden and Lorenzo can have them too. Why can't they? They want them. Maybe it's fear from the Rossi/Dorna/Scientologist conspiracy, who don't want the game to be even?
Joined Oct 2006
445 Posts | 43+
Adelaide, Australia
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Goatboy @ Oct 24 2007, 04:17 AM) [snapback]96783[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The only direct quote is so vague it could relate to anything.
Totally, so vague. Yeah, it could be talking about Michelin making a bid for a Rossi helmet during a Day of Champions auction. A public statement by the head of Dorna about Michelin's intentions re: control tyre. Pfft. Means nothing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Goatboy @ Oct 24 2007, 04:17 AM) [snapback]96783[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Transparent usage of language
I don't think transparent means what you think it does...
trans·par·ent [ transs párrənt ] adjective
1. easily seen through: allowing light to pass through with little or no interruption or distortion so that objects on the other side can be clearly seen.
2. obvious and easy to recognize: clearly recognizable.
3. frank: completely open and frank. They were completely transparent about their motives.
I think that you're suggesting that Noyes' is being dishonest in his reporting. You are right, the piece is highly speculative, but the guy is very well connected to the MotoGP world, and an ex-Dorna staffer. Then again, who knows, maybe he has an axe to grind?
The fact remains that of all the riders on Michelin who want to change to Bridgestone for next year it is only Rossi who will be lining up under lights at Qatar in 2008 on them...
The only direct quote is so vague it could relate to anything.
Totally, so vague. Yeah, it could be talking about Michelin making a bid for a Rossi helmet during a Day of Champions auction. A public statement by the head of Dorna about Michelin's intentions re: control tyre. Pfft. Means nothing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Goatboy @ Oct 24 2007, 04:17 AM) [snapback]96783[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Transparent usage of language
I don't think transparent means what you think it does...
trans·par·ent [ transs párrənt ] adjective
1. easily seen through: allowing light to pass through with little or no interruption or distortion so that objects on the other side can be clearly seen.
2. obvious and easy to recognize: clearly recognizable.
3. frank: completely open and frank. They were completely transparent about their motives.
I think that you're suggesting that Noyes' is being dishonest in his reporting. You are right, the piece is highly speculative, but the guy is very well connected to the MotoGP world, and an ex-Dorna staffer. Then again, who knows, maybe he has an axe to grind?
The fact remains that of all the riders on Michelin who want to change to Bridgestone for next year it is only Rossi who will be lining up under lights at Qatar in 2008 on them...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rising Sun @ Oct 23 2007, 09:49 PM) [snapback]96828[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
To be honest, all you Rossi fluffers are gettin' on my .... [wanna call me a hater, fine; fluffer is a label all you Rossi fanboys deserve]. You keep blurring the debate, by trying to make it seem like it just a simple tyre change.
The debate is about Rossi getting Bridgestones in spite of the fact that Bridgestone, on more than one occasion this year, stated that they can't or won't supply any more riders and teams in the future--and specifically ruled out supplying factory Hondas and Yamahas.
Just like Roger's fear theory, more muddying of the waters...
Ooooooh, cry me a ....... river. Yeah, he had a .... tyre for Istanbul (nothing wrong with Hayden's that day, though; guess all Michelins aren't equal), or is that from Laguna Seca? It happens. Michelin have to lift their game, end of story. Looks like they have, at the moment. Sepang offers some of the most testing conditions for tyres, and Rossi was able to do his fastest lap of the race on his second last lap of the race, had the race pace of the podium finishers.
And... 5+ times? List them all.
And, just for the record, I'm happy for Rossi to have Bridgestones--but only if Pedrosa and Hayden and Lorenzo can have them too. Why can't they? They want them. Maybe it's fear from the Rossi/Dorna/Scientologist conspiracy, who don't want the game to be even?
Why do you keep going on about them.. But thats not even it. Why do you care if he ends up with brigestones or not if your not a fan of his. Its like if im complaining about what rubber Tamada is gonna use next year even though im not a fan. Thats hating right there.
Just let the guy ask for bridgestones if thats the rubber he wants. Its not affecting your favorite rider..or is it???
To be honest, all you Rossi fluffers are gettin' on my .... [wanna call me a hater, fine; fluffer is a label all you Rossi fanboys deserve]. You keep blurring the debate, by trying to make it seem like it just a simple tyre change.
The debate is about Rossi getting Bridgestones in spite of the fact that Bridgestone, on more than one occasion this year, stated that they can't or won't supply any more riders and teams in the future--and specifically ruled out supplying factory Hondas and Yamahas.
Just like Roger's fear theory, more muddying of the waters...
Ooooooh, cry me a ....... river. Yeah, he had a .... tyre for Istanbul (nothing wrong with Hayden's that day, though; guess all Michelins aren't equal), or is that from Laguna Seca? It happens. Michelin have to lift their game, end of story. Looks like they have, at the moment. Sepang offers some of the most testing conditions for tyres, and Rossi was able to do his fastest lap of the race on his second last lap of the race, had the race pace of the podium finishers.
And... 5+ times? List them all.
And, just for the record, I'm happy for Rossi to have Bridgestones--but only if Pedrosa and Hayden and Lorenzo can have them too. Why can't they? They want them. Maybe it's fear from the Rossi/Dorna/Scientologist conspiracy, who don't want the game to be even?
Why do you keep going on about them.. But thats not even it. Why do you care if he ends up with brigestones or not if your not a fan of his. Its like if im complaining about what rubber Tamada is gonna use next year even though im not a fan. Thats hating right there.
Just let the guy ask for bridgestones if thats the rubber he wants. Its not affecting your favorite rider..or is it???
Rossi doesn't care what brand tire he's riding as long as he's on the exact same stuff his #1 contender is on. It happens to be Bridgestone. VR and his crew are masters of quantified deduction. If there's a problem, they eliminate them one at a time until things are perfect. They are down to tire choice. They don't want to gamble on them, and as long as they're on equal footing, VR knows he's got a fighting chance. Power's almost a no issue and now the tires are taken out of the equation. Next year is going to be a mutherphucking brawl. Rossi wants to say, "See, now that we're on the same tire, he no have a chance."
Joined Jun 2006
2K Posts | 20+
south wales UK
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rising Sun @ Oct 24 2007, 02:49 AM) [snapback]96828[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
And... 5+ times? List them all.
he had a .... tyre for Istanbul (nothing wrong with Hayden's that day, though
well ive posted videos of 2 races in the other thread and 1 pic you can see plain that the tyres are buggered when i find the other 2 ill post them, no need to be so pissy.
there is about 5 races were rossi's tyres have given up im not sure why they do but they, the video doesnt lie, the instanbul video is there
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DPFFAsf8-Zw
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fw4ZgkWPPU4
And... 5+ times? List them all.
he had a .... tyre for Istanbul (nothing wrong with Hayden's that day, though
well ive posted videos of 2 races in the other thread and 1 pic you can see plain that the tyres are buggered when i find the other 2 ill post them, no need to be so pissy.
there is about 5 races were rossi's tyres have given up im not sure why they do but they, the video doesnt lie, the instanbul video is there
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DPFFAsf8-Zw
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fw4ZgkWPPU4
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gsfan @ Oct 24 2007, 12:22 AM) [snapback]96820[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I say give Rossi the Bridgestones on the condition that he stops fingering his balls on camera every time he goes out on the track. Give them a rest buddy!!!
you really shouldn't be looking
I say give Rossi the Bridgestones on the condition that he stops fingering his balls on camera every time he goes out on the track. Give them a rest buddy!!!
you really shouldn't be looking
Joined Oct 2006
445 Posts | 43+
Adelaide, Australia
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(esco @ Oct 24 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]96830[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Why do you care if he ends up with brigestones or not if your not a fan of his?
Reread my previous post, specifically the bit in bold.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(esco @ Oct 24 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]96830[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Its like if im complaining about what rubber Tamada is gonna use next year even though im not a fan. Thats hating right there.
Firstly, disagreeing about something does not equal hating. Maybe for you it does, in which case you live in a very narrow world. Because I disagree with you on this issue, does it mean I hate you? Hardly...
And stop muddying the issue, like all the other pro-Rossi guys. It's not about what rubber he uses, it's about how he gets it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(esco @ Oct 24 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]96830[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Just let the guy ask for bridgestones if thats the rubber he wants.
Did you read what I wrote? Yeah Rossi can ask all he wants, just like Pedrosa and the others. But why does only Rossi get answered with a yes?
Why do you care if he ends up with brigestones or not if your not a fan of his?
Reread my previous post, specifically the bit in bold.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(esco @ Oct 24 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]96830[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Its like if im complaining about what rubber Tamada is gonna use next year even though im not a fan. Thats hating right there.
Firstly, disagreeing about something does not equal hating. Maybe for you it does, in which case you live in a very narrow world. Because I disagree with you on this issue, does it mean I hate you? Hardly...
And stop muddying the issue, like all the other pro-Rossi guys. It's not about what rubber he uses, it's about how he gets it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(esco @ Oct 24 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]96830[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Just let the guy ask for bridgestones if thats the rubber he wants.
Did you read what I wrote? Yeah Rossi can ask all he wants, just like Pedrosa and the others. But why does only Rossi get answered with a yes?
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Oct 24 2007, 01:17 PM) [snapback]96833[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
well ive posted videos of 2 races in the other thread and 1 pic you can see plain that the tyres are buggered when i find the other 2 ill post them, no need to be so pissy.
there is about 5 races were rossi's tyres have given up im not sure why they do but they, the video doesnt lie, the instanbul video is there
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DPFFAsf8-Zw
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fw4ZgkWPPU4
Pretty indistinct on the first vid.!!! Except Rossi is riding all over the shop
The Le Mans vid. shows nothing!! ... I don't get it?? So Rossi wasn't handling the rain ....
Getting a bit like Erik Von Danikens spacemen made the pyramids here
well ive posted videos of 2 races in the other thread and 1 pic you can see plain that the tyres are buggered when i find the other 2 ill post them, no need to be so pissy.
there is about 5 races were rossi's tyres have given up im not sure why they do but they, the video doesnt lie, the instanbul video is there
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DPFFAsf8-Zw
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fw4ZgkWPPU4
Pretty indistinct on the first vid.!!! Except Rossi is riding all over the shop
The Le Mans vid. shows nothing!! ... I don't get it?? So Rossi wasn't handling the rain ....
Getting a bit like Erik Von Danikens spacemen made the pyramids here
Joined Oct 2006
445 Posts | 43+
Adelaide, Australia
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Oct 24 2007, 12:17 PM) [snapback]96833[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
well ive posted videos of 2 races in the other thread and 1 pic you can see plain that the tyres are buggered when i find the other 2 ill post them, no need to be so pissy.
You're the one labelling people as haters. And if you make outrageous claims like there were 5+ races where Rossi's rear tyre looked like that, you'll get called on it.
Again, the pic you posted, is that from Istanbul or Laguna Seca? There are only two races that I know of that Rossi's Michelins shredded themselves like that: Istanbul and Laguna Seca.
Le Mans? Sorry, doesn't count. Go and look through the post-race discussions. When Rossi got off the bike, he looked at the tyre, and said it looked like it was brand new. The mistake Rossi/Burgess made (possibly on Michelin's advice) was to choose a wet tyre compound that was too hard. Hopkins on Bridgstones did the same thing--look at his race compared to Vermeulen's.
What you see on the video is feathering. That's where the 'marbles' on the outside of corners on the track comes from. It looks bad, and sometimes it is, but not usually. I saw some from the on board bike shots during the race at Philip Island, too. No one complained about totally shredded tyres there, did they?
Certainly, there have been several races where Rossi hasn't had the grip at the end of the race he wanted. Maybe Sepang is the turning of the tide for Michelin? Or maybe it's a 'one off' like Qatar, Mugello, Assen, Estoril, Catalunya, Donington (for Edwards, to a point), and Sachsenring (for everyone but Rossi). I guess that Rossi will never know for sure now (unless Pedrosa waltzes off with the 2008 championship).
I don't expect people to agree with me when I say that Michelins this year haven't been totally dismal and disastrous this year. I'm a glass is half-full kind of guy, where as most people seem to be the opposite.
Example: I also don't think the Honda has been the pile of .... that people make it out to be. Maybe if either of the Repsol guys actually knew how to put a pass on a rider (like Rossi on West at Sepang, as opposed to Hayden on Elias or Pedrosa on nobody), they might have had an even better season...
well ive posted videos of 2 races in the other thread and 1 pic you can see plain that the tyres are buggered when i find the other 2 ill post them, no need to be so pissy.
You're the one labelling people as haters. And if you make outrageous claims like there were 5+ races where Rossi's rear tyre looked like that, you'll get called on it.
Again, the pic you posted, is that from Istanbul or Laguna Seca? There are only two races that I know of that Rossi's Michelins shredded themselves like that: Istanbul and Laguna Seca.
Le Mans? Sorry, doesn't count. Go and look through the post-race discussions. When Rossi got off the bike, he looked at the tyre, and said it looked like it was brand new. The mistake Rossi/Burgess made (possibly on Michelin's advice) was to choose a wet tyre compound that was too hard. Hopkins on Bridgstones did the same thing--look at his race compared to Vermeulen's.
What you see on the video is feathering. That's where the 'marbles' on the outside of corners on the track comes from. It looks bad, and sometimes it is, but not usually. I saw some from the on board bike shots during the race at Philip Island, too. No one complained about totally shredded tyres there, did they?
Certainly, there have been several races where Rossi hasn't had the grip at the end of the race he wanted. Maybe Sepang is the turning of the tide for Michelin? Or maybe it's a 'one off' like Qatar, Mugello, Assen, Estoril, Catalunya, Donington (for Edwards, to a point), and Sachsenring (for everyone but Rossi). I guess that Rossi will never know for sure now (unless Pedrosa waltzes off with the 2008 championship).
I don't expect people to agree with me when I say that Michelins this year haven't been totally dismal and disastrous this year. I'm a glass is half-full kind of guy, where as most people seem to be the opposite.
Example: I also don't think the Honda has been the pile of .... that people make it out to be. Maybe if either of the Repsol guys actually knew how to put a pass on a rider (like Rossi on West at Sepang, as opposed to Hayden on Elias or Pedrosa on nobody), they might have had an even better season...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rising Sun @ Oct 24 2007, 05:12 AM) [snapback]96840[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
You're the one labelling people as haters. And if you make outrageous claims like there were 5+ races where Rossi's rear tyre looked like that, you'll get called on it.
Again, the pic you posted, is that from Istanbul or Laguna Seca? There are only two races that I know of that Rossi's Michelins shredded themselves like that: Istanbul and Laguna Seca.
Le Mans? Sorry, doesn't count. Go and look through the post-race discussions. When Rossi got off the bike, he looked at the tyre, and said it looked like it was brand new. The mistake Rossi/Burgess made (possibly on Michelin's advice) was to choose a wet tyre compound that was too hard. Hopkins on Bridgstones did the same thing--look at his race compared to Vermeulen's.
What you see on the video is feathering. That's where the 'marbles' on the outside of corners on the track comes from. It looks bad, and sometimes it is, but not usually. I saw some from the on board bike shots during the race at Philip Island, too. No one complained about totally shredded tyres there, did they?
Certainly, there have been several races where Rossi hasn't had the grip at the end of the race he wanted. Maybe Sepang is the turning of the tide for Michelin? Or maybe it's a 'one off' like Qatar, Mugello, Assen, Estoril, Catalunya, Donington (for Edwards, to a point), and Sachsenring (for everyone but Rossi). I guess that Rossi will never know for sure now (unless Pedrosa waltzes off with the 2008 championship).
I don't expect people to agree with me when I say that Michelins this year haven't been totally dismal and disastrous this year. I'm a glass is half-full kind of guy, where as most people seem to be the opposite.
Example: I also don't think the Honda has been the pile of .... that people make it out to be. Maybe if either of the Repsol guys actually knew how to put a pass on a rider (like Rossi on West at Sepang, as opposed to Hayden on Elias or Pedrosa on nobody), they might have had an even better season...
You're the one labelling people as haters. And if you make outrageous claims like there were 5+ races where Rossi's rear tyre looked like that, you'll get called on it.
Again, the pic you posted, is that from Istanbul or Laguna Seca? There are only two races that I know of that Rossi's Michelins shredded themselves like that: Istanbul and Laguna Seca.
Le Mans? Sorry, doesn't count. Go and look through the post-race discussions. When Rossi got off the bike, he looked at the tyre, and said it looked like it was brand new. The mistake Rossi/Burgess made (possibly on Michelin's advice) was to choose a wet tyre compound that was too hard. Hopkins on Bridgstones did the same thing--look at his race compared to Vermeulen's.
What you see on the video is feathering. That's where the 'marbles' on the outside of corners on the track comes from. It looks bad, and sometimes it is, but not usually. I saw some from the on board bike shots during the race at Philip Island, too. No one complained about totally shredded tyres there, did they?
Certainly, there have been several races where Rossi hasn't had the grip at the end of the race he wanted. Maybe Sepang is the turning of the tide for Michelin? Or maybe it's a 'one off' like Qatar, Mugello, Assen, Estoril, Catalunya, Donington (for Edwards, to a point), and Sachsenring (for everyone but Rossi). I guess that Rossi will never know for sure now (unless Pedrosa waltzes off with the 2008 championship).
I don't expect people to agree with me when I say that Michelins this year haven't been totally dismal and disastrous this year. I'm a glass is half-full kind of guy, where as most people seem to be the opposite.
Example: I also don't think the Honda has been the pile of .... that people make it out to be. Maybe if either of the Repsol guys actually knew how to put a pass on a rider (like Rossi on West at Sepang, as opposed to Hayden on Elias or Pedrosa on nobody), they might have had an even better season...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rising Sun @ Oct 24 2007, 05:12 AM) [snapback]96840[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
You're the one labelling people as haters. And if you make outrageous claims like there were 5+ races where Rossi's rear tyre looked like that, you'll get called on it.
I actually don't have any problem with rossi changing tyres at all, with the single exception of the matter that you have raised, which is that dorna might be manipulating things.
Whilst I am no fan of dorna, I can't see that they have acted nefariously up till now(stupidly yes, nefariously no). As I have argued previously, this year's new regulations were always likely to hinder rather than help rossi; despite this, it is my understanding that he agreed to the tyre regulation change.
I would have thought bridgestone wouldn't have needed much nudging if rossi really wanted their tyres in any case. Whilst bridgestone probably enjoy beating michelin as an end in itself, are likely to have motor sports enthusiasts in their race tyre division, and hopefully are at least partly in racing to improve the breed etc , it would also seem likely that commercial considerations loom large. At the moment they are in the dream situation publicity-wise of having the rossi supporters who would seem to constitute a fair majority of fans believe that their tyres are technologically superior, whilst the fans of the teams they supply also presumably think their tyres are pretty good. If they refuse him the tyres, they become the bad guys who are putting him at an unfair disadvantage. Having rossi endorse your tyres which probably he wouldn't have considered using in the past is presumably no bad thing either.
You're the one labelling people as haters. And if you make outrageous claims like there were 5+ races where Rossi's rear tyre looked like that, you'll get called on it.
I actually don't have any problem with rossi changing tyres at all, with the single exception of the matter that you have raised, which is that dorna might be manipulating things.
Whilst I am no fan of dorna, I can't see that they have acted nefariously up till now(stupidly yes, nefariously no). As I have argued previously, this year's new regulations were always likely to hinder rather than help rossi; despite this, it is my understanding that he agreed to the tyre regulation change.
I would have thought bridgestone wouldn't have needed much nudging if rossi really wanted their tyres in any case. Whilst bridgestone probably enjoy beating michelin as an end in itself, are likely to have motor sports enthusiasts in their race tyre division, and hopefully are at least partly in racing to improve the breed etc , it would also seem likely that commercial considerations loom large. At the moment they are in the dream situation publicity-wise of having the rossi supporters who would seem to constitute a fair majority of fans believe that their tyres are technologically superior, whilst the fans of the teams they supply also presumably think their tyres are pretty good. If they refuse him the tyres, they become the bad guys who are putting him at an unfair disadvantage. Having rossi endorse your tyres which probably he wouldn't have considered using in the past is presumably no bad thing either.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Oct 24 2007, 07:16 AM) [snapback]96842[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Having rossi endorse your tyres which probably he wouldn't have considered using in the past is presumably no bad thing either.
yea, but also showing you are beating valentino rossi with bridgestones is not a bad thing either while they already have stoner doing the winning.
Having rossi endorse your tyres which probably he wouldn't have considered using in the past is presumably no bad thing either.
yea, but also showing you are beating valentino rossi with bridgestones is not a bad thing either while they already have stoner doing the winning.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rising Sun @ Oct 24 2007, 06:12 AM) [snapback]96840[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Again, the pic you posted, is that from Istanbul or Laguna Seca? There are only two races that I know of that Rossi's Michelins shredded themselves like that: Istanbul and Laguna Seca.
even if it was "only" twice that his tyre shredded, thats twice to many times at this level. both times could have cost him his life let alone the race.
there is no proof that rossi has manipulated dorna in any way to persuade bridgestone to supplie him tyres, thats just hear say and guess work by the press.
haters because you will not give him the benefit of the doubt, you would rather believe some faceless jurno.
fear because you dont want to see him on the same rubber that did so blindingly well this year
well cry me a river my friend, the good old days will be back very soon.
i think rossi would have been a right mug to stay with michilins and not ask for stones, he told them last year to get there ....... act together and they just did to little to late so bye bye.!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Oct 24 2007, 07:16 AM) [snapback]96842[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I actually don't have any problem with rossi changing tyres at all, with the single exception of the matter that you have raised, which is that dorna might be manipulating things.
Whilst I am no fan of dorna, I can't see that they have acted nefariously up till now(stupidly yes, nefariously no). As I have argued previously, this year's new regulations were always likely to hinder rather than help rossi; despite this, it is my understanding that he agreed to the tyre regulation change.
I would have thought bridgestone wouldn't have needed much nudging if rossi really wanted their tyres in any case. Whilst bridgestone probably enjoy beating michelin as an end in itself, are likely to have motor sports enthusiasts in their race tyre division, and hopefully are at least partly in racing to improve the breed etc , it would also seem likely that commercial considerations loom large. At the moment they are in the dream situation publicity-wise of having the rossi supporters who would seem to constitute a fair majority of fans believe that their tyres are technologically superior, whilst the fans of the teams they supply also presumably think their tyres are pretty good. If they refuse him the tyres, they become the bad guys who are putting him at an unfair disadvantage. Having rossi endorse your tyres which probably he wouldn't have considered using in the past is presumably no bad thing either.
i dont think for one second that bridgstone would refuse rossi, i dont think dorna would need top threaten them. this is playing the press plain and simple. the longer they appear to hold out the more coverage they get. just a marketing strategy and where all falling for it.
when were tyres ever a factor in the silly season until now ?
Again, the pic you posted, is that from Istanbul or Laguna Seca? There are only two races that I know of that Rossi's Michelins shredded themselves like that: Istanbul and Laguna Seca.
even if it was "only" twice that his tyre shredded, thats twice to many times at this level. both times could have cost him his life let alone the race.
there is no proof that rossi has manipulated dorna in any way to persuade bridgestone to supplie him tyres, thats just hear say and guess work by the press.
haters because you will not give him the benefit of the doubt, you would rather believe some faceless jurno.
fear because you dont want to see him on the same rubber that did so blindingly well this year
well cry me a river my friend, the good old days will be back very soon.
i think rossi would have been a right mug to stay with michilins and not ask for stones, he told them last year to get there ....... act together and they just did to little to late so bye bye.!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Oct 24 2007, 07:16 AM) [snapback]96842[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I actually don't have any problem with rossi changing tyres at all, with the single exception of the matter that you have raised, which is that dorna might be manipulating things.
Whilst I am no fan of dorna, I can't see that they have acted nefariously up till now(stupidly yes, nefariously no). As I have argued previously, this year's new regulations were always likely to hinder rather than help rossi; despite this, it is my understanding that he agreed to the tyre regulation change.
I would have thought bridgestone wouldn't have needed much nudging if rossi really wanted their tyres in any case. Whilst bridgestone probably enjoy beating michelin as an end in itself, are likely to have motor sports enthusiasts in their race tyre division, and hopefully are at least partly in racing to improve the breed etc , it would also seem likely that commercial considerations loom large. At the moment they are in the dream situation publicity-wise of having the rossi supporters who would seem to constitute a fair majority of fans believe that their tyres are technologically superior, whilst the fans of the teams they supply also presumably think their tyres are pretty good. If they refuse him the tyres, they become the bad guys who are putting him at an unfair disadvantage. Having rossi endorse your tyres which probably he wouldn't have considered using in the past is presumably no bad thing either.
i dont think for one second that bridgstone would refuse rossi, i dont think dorna would need top threaten them. this is playing the press plain and simple. the longer they appear to hold out the more coverage they get. just a marketing strategy and where all falling for it.
when were tyres ever a factor in the silly season until now ?
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rising Sun @ Oct 24 2007, 03:49 AM) [snapback]96828[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
And, just for the record, I'm happy for Rossi to have Bridgestones--but only if Pedrosa and Hayden and Lorenzo can have them too. Why can't they? They want them. Maybe it's fear from the Rossi/Dorna/Scientologist conspiracy, who don't want the game to be even?
Good point! This tyre issue is a whole mess. I personally dont like the idea that tyres count so much for deciding races and titles. If no balance can be found otherwise, the only solution will be Ezpeleta's... Regrettable, but the lesser evil. Superbikes and F1 do not seem to have suffered so much, after all...
That would be easy, but the real problem is the contracts. Bike manufacturers have deals with tyre manufacturers, which extend beyond the races. Often the brand of tyres used in competition is the same brand that production bikes come equipped with.
That is where the tyre issue becomes complicated, and that is why manufacturers are so reluctant to switch tyres - because of these commercial attachments... If it was just for the races, it would be simpler.
It was simpler once - at the times of Hailwood and Agostini, you could see riders with one brand of tyres at the rear and a different brand at the front! Rossi would like to do just that... Choose his tyres and not be limited by other considerations. Pedrosa and other riders are just the same. Of course, they should also to look at where their big paychecks come from
And, just for the record, I'm happy for Rossi to have Bridgestones--but only if Pedrosa and Hayden and Lorenzo can have them too. Why can't they? They want them. Maybe it's fear from the Rossi/Dorna/Scientologist conspiracy, who don't want the game to be even?
Good point! This tyre issue is a whole mess. I personally dont like the idea that tyres count so much for deciding races and titles. If no balance can be found otherwise, the only solution will be Ezpeleta's... Regrettable, but the lesser evil. Superbikes and F1 do not seem to have suffered so much, after all...
That would be easy, but the real problem is the contracts. Bike manufacturers have deals with tyre manufacturers, which extend beyond the races. Often the brand of tyres used in competition is the same brand that production bikes come equipped with.
That is where the tyre issue becomes complicated, and that is why manufacturers are so reluctant to switch tyres - because of these commercial attachments... If it was just for the races, it would be simpler.
It was simpler once - at the times of Hailwood and Agostini, you could see riders with one brand of tyres at the rear and a different brand at the front! Rossi would like to do just that... Choose his tyres and not be limited by other considerations. Pedrosa and other riders are just the same. Of course, they should also to look at where their big paychecks come from
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rising Sun @ Oct 24 2007, 03:10 AM) [snapback]96829[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Totally, so vague. Yeah, it could be talking about Michelin making a bid for a Rossi helmet during a Day of Champions auction. A public statement by the head of Dorna about Michelin's intentions re: control tyre. Pfft. Means nothing.
I don't think transparent means what you think it does...
trans·par·ent [ transs párrənt ] adjective
1. easily seen through: allowing light to pass through with little or no interruption or distortion so that objects on the other side can be clearly seen.
2. obvious and easy to recognize: clearly recognizable.
3. frank: completely open and frank. They were completely transparent about their motives.
I think that you're suggesting that Noyes' is being dishonest in his reporting. You are right, the piece is highly speculative, but the guy is very well connected to the MotoGP world, and an ex-Dorna staffer. Then again, who knows, maybe he has an axe to grind?
The second definition fits perfectly thank you very much.
The use of phrases such as "Rossi has waffled all weekend" & "the protocol this weekend in Malaysia" or how about "This is all rather precious and transparent diplomacy" make the ulterior motives even more clear than the lack of solid quotes, to portray rumour as fact. Making it "obvious" & "easy" to recognise an article that was just having a pop at Rossi. It's all in the usage of language, why use the word waffle when unbiased reporting demands the use of less inflamatory words. "Say" would have done just as well as waffle etc etc
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rising Sun @ Oct 24 2007, 03:10 AM) [snapback]96829[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The fact remains that of all the riders on Michelin who want to change to Bridgestone for next year it is only Rossi who will be lining up under lights at Qatar in 2008 on them...
It ain't a fact yet.
Totally, so vague. Yeah, it could be talking about Michelin making a bid for a Rossi helmet during a Day of Champions auction. A public statement by the head of Dorna about Michelin's intentions re: control tyre. Pfft. Means nothing.
I don't think transparent means what you think it does...
trans·par·ent [ transs párrənt ] adjective
1. easily seen through: allowing light to pass through with little or no interruption or distortion so that objects on the other side can be clearly seen.
2. obvious and easy to recognize: clearly recognizable.
3. frank: completely open and frank. They were completely transparent about their motives.
I think that you're suggesting that Noyes' is being dishonest in his reporting. You are right, the piece is highly speculative, but the guy is very well connected to the MotoGP world, and an ex-Dorna staffer. Then again, who knows, maybe he has an axe to grind?
The second definition fits perfectly thank you very much.
The use of phrases such as "Rossi has waffled all weekend" & "the protocol this weekend in Malaysia" or how about "This is all rather precious and transparent diplomacy" make the ulterior motives even more clear than the lack of solid quotes, to portray rumour as fact. Making it "obvious" & "easy" to recognise an article that was just having a pop at Rossi. It's all in the usage of language, why use the word waffle when unbiased reporting demands the use of less inflamatory words. "Say" would have done just as well as waffle etc etc
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rising Sun @ Oct 24 2007, 03:10 AM) [snapback]96829[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The fact remains that of all the riders on Michelin who want to change to Bridgestone for next year it is only Rossi who will be lining up under lights at Qatar in 2008 on them...
It ain't a fact yet.
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