Bloody Tyres

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 27 2007, 07:27 AM) [snapback]97272[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Exactly .... its worth more for them to be the tyre that beat Hayden ... and even ..... Rossi!!

Like I said elsewhere, if Rossi stays Michelin, and is losing ... Bridgestone look good.

If he goes Bridgestone and does not pull of the prayed for "resurrection" .... Bridgestones name will be mud.!

But anyway next year is next year ... I thin Pedrosa will be a "power" in trems of points next year he has already eclipsed Hayden this year ...


Not if Casey is still winning on them. If Rossi moves to Bridgestones and his form doesn't recover, no one's gonna blame the tyres. It would take a very unintelligent person to jump to that conclusion. He goes bad on Michelins, he goes bad on Stones: Common factor: ROSSI. If Stoner is still turning out this year's performance, then Bridgestones are still gonna look good, and Vale will just be another 'over the hill' rider.
IF, however, Bridgestones supply Rossi and he gets his act together, they will definitely get a big slice of the merit.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bikergirl @ Oct 28 2007, 05:35 PM) [snapback]97379[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Not if Casey is still winning on them. If Rossi moves to Bridgestones and his form doesn't recover, no one's gonna blame the tyres. It would take a very unintelligent person to jump to that conclusion. He goes bad on Michelins, he goes bad on Stones: Common factor: ROSSI. If Stoner is still turning out this year's performance, then Bridgestones are still gonna look good, and Vale will just be another 'over the hill' rider.
IF, however, Bridgestones supply Rossi and he gets his act together, they will definitely get a big slice of the merit.


Probably right but I just don't think going to Bridgestone will solve all the problems he's had this season.

Next season when it's a Michelin track Dani and Nicky will probably reign supreme with perhaps Lorenzo grabbing some big points now and again as he comes to terms with the new machinery. Tech 3 will be an unknown until season starts.
When it's a Bridgestone track he will still have both Casey and now also Marco to try and beat on the powerful Ducati's, which will be no mean feat I think. I think the guys at Yamaha need to find some straight line speed before Vale can again win the title.
In short I believe Dani, Nicky and HRC will benefit mostly from Vale going to Bridgestones. Next season they will be the head honcho's on Michelin tracks and wont have to fight Vale for the win on the same rubber. That in itself must have the factory Honda team looking forward to 2008 big time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frizzle @ Oct 28 2007, 08:22 AM) [snapback]97383[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Probably right but I just don't think going to Bridgestone will solve all the problems he's had this season.

Next season when it's a Michelin track Dani and Nicky will probably reign supreme with perhaps Lorenzo grabbing some big points now and again as he comes to terms with the new machinery. Tech 3 will be an unknown until season starts.
When it's a Bridgestone track he will still have both Casey and now also Marco to try and beat on the powerful Ducati's, which will be no mean feat I think. I think the guys at Yamaha need to find some straight line speed before Vale can again win the title.
In short I believe Dani, Nicky and HRC will benefit mostly from Vale going to Bridgestones. Next season they will be the head honcho's on Michelin tracks and wont have to fight Vale for the win on the same rubber. That in itself must have the factory Honda team looking forward to 2008 big time.


Good analysis, I quote
Rossi, like all the riders who have been physically there on the tarmac this season, knows very well how strong Stoner is, he knows that Bridgestones are currently better than Michelins, and knows that Yamaha lacks (usable) power and will have to provide him something better next year.

He's just trying to gather all these pieces together and right, so that he can hope to win again in 2008... He simply is not giving up, and that is good for the sport

Honda, they will be there with old friend Michelin, Harry Potter and Kentucky boy to try to spoil the party for both Ducati and Yamaha. Let us see. They are determined to come back on top, they definitely have the means to do something serious - and that is also good for the sport!

But if Michelin do not manage to fill the current gap, then Honda will be 3rd, whatever bike they come out with...

I think the yamaha is not so bad, it needs to transfer the power to ground better and maybe more durable tyres will help.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Oct 28 2007, 05:13 PM) [snapback]97422[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think the yamaha is not so bad, it needs to transfer the power to ground better and maybe more durable tyres will help.


You mean it need power to transfer to the ground?
The early part of the curve exit is not the problem it's the last 1/8 of the curve and the straights that is a problem. Hardly any transfer issues there? Ok, I'll agree, torque might be weak but these days that's more of an electronics issue?
Besides, i've seen and heard commentators talking about the Ducati torque, but the ducati pull away very late in the exit and that's usually when you are about to change gear. I might be wrong as it could be where they just changed gear.

I have 2 questions, the first facetious, the second less so, as I haven't really taken much interest in the tyre issue previously.

Was there really anyone not on michelins during valentino's consecutive run of world championship wins who would have beaten him if they had been michelin shod?

What has been michelin's policy on supplying teams with tyres in the past? Did they refuse to supply most teams, or was it more a matter of cost for the less wealthy teams?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babelfish @ Oct 29 2007, 10:30 AM) [snapback]97493[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The early part of the curve exit is not the problem it's the last 1/8 of the curve and the straights that is a problem.


Earlier on this year Rossi himself said that this is not the Duc. It is Stoners style. He squares off the corners earlier.

The few times this year somebody got past him they come in on the inside as he goes wide just after the entry ... then he squares off ...... they go wide at about 3/4 mark ( after the overtaking manouvre ) and Stoner is allready on the gas leaving a point about half way, were his apex was ... he gets them before the corner is done ..... its great to watch. Folk were saying "why didn't Dani try to pass?" at Sepang .... well I think Dani and Casey have a great mismatch of corner style and Dani knows it but hasn't figured out how to beat it yet. So to the guys credit he was more waiting for the mistake ... why bother overtaking if you know he will get you back at the end of the corner. I think Rossi was working on it in China but it his fix was to go in faster ..... didn't work.


Stoners change from deceleration to acceleration seems earlier than most .... he seems to accelerate from 1/2 way round others 3/4 so by the time he gets to say 7/8 ... he's already got a jump on them.

If you think its the Duc. watch the difference in Capi.'s corners and Stoners.

Not saying the Duc. is a slouch though .... bcause it is the bike that enables him to do this.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Oct 28 2007, 11:45 PM) [snapback]97495[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I have 2 questions, the first facetious, the second less so, as I haven't really taken much interest in the tyre issue previously.

Was there really anyone not on michelins during valentino's consecutive run of world championship wins who would have beaten him if they had been michelin shod?

What has been michelin's policy on supplying teams with tyres in the past? Did they refuse to supply most teams, or was it more a matter of cost for the less wealthy teams?

from my memory ( not that reliable)

1.not as i remember, stone's were non existent then starting out in the sport, pretty much all the competitive teams were on michilins.

2.i think it came down to, a, can you afford michilins or b. we need more money so it dunlops.

as you have said mike, no one before now spoke much about tyres, i firmly believe this whole saga has been engineered to put the tyre companys in the spot light. theres no such thing as bad publicity ,so they say.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Oct 29 2007, 12:30 PM) [snapback]97553[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
from my memory ( not that reliable)

1.not as i remember, stone's were non existent then starting out in the sport, pretty much all the competitive teams were on michilins.

2.i think it came down to, a, can you afford michilins or b. we need more money so it dunlops.

as you have said mike, no one before now spoke much about tyres, i firmly believe this whole saga has been engineered to put the tyre companys in the spot light. theres no such thing as bad publicity ,so they say.


The other thing I was trying to allude to, if this is the case, is that as babelfish I think argued michelin was effectively the control tyre previously as only honda and yamaha had a chance of winning. It would also seem to not require a great deal of loyalty to rossi on michelin's part to sell his teams tyres and get good publicity whilst he won 5 titles. I was also going to ask how much loyalty michelin had shown to less successful riders until I thought of colin edwards, not that I want to disparage colin whom I loved in superbikes.

Insofar as Iam at all attached to tyres I am a bridgestone man, given that they supplied casey this year and michael schumacher previously. However with the talk of them currently wishing to be loyal to teams who have been loyal to them, I think it should be remembered that this loyalty was at least partially purchased as part of a commercial strategy as I understand they provided tyres free.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Oct 29 2007, 01:13 PM) [snapback]97568[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The other thing I was trying to allude to, if this is the case, is that as babelfish I think argued michelin was effectively the control tyre previously as only honda and yamaha had a chance of winning. It would also seem to not require a great deal of loyalty to rossi on michelin's part to sell his teams tyres and get good publicity whilst he won 5 titles. I was also going to ask how much loyalty michelin had shown to less successful riders until I thought of colin edwards, not that I want to disparage colin whom I loved in superbikes.

Insofar as Iam at all attached to tyres I am a bridgestone man, given that they supplied casey this year and michael schumacher previously. However with the talk of them currently wishing to be loyal to teams who have been loyal to them, I think it should be remembered that this loyalty was at least partially purchased as part of a commercial strategy as I understand they provided tyres free.

honda had the most bikes on the grid and were the only competitive bike in the earler years of the rossi domination. yam had max who said the bike was ....., suzuki had monumental problems with the bikes handling, ducati and kawasaki were not racing in motogp, aprilia was fast in a straight line but due to the ride by wire it was useless. team kr were still running the 2 stroke. so yeah it was only the honda that had any chance until vale joined yamaha.there wasn't enough competition to even warrant talking about tyres, it was more weather motogp would turn into a honda championship,imo it was rossi switching from honda to yam that helped prevent this,but thats just my rossi coloured glasses i expect,

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Oct 29 2007, 01:04 AM) [snapback]97497[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

The few times this year somebody got past him they come in on the inside as he goes wide just after the entry ... then he squares off ...... they go wide at about 3/4 mark ( after the overtaking manouvre ) and Stoner is allready on the gas leaving a point about half way, were his apex was ... he gets them before the corner is done ..... its great to watch. -----------------


Agree - that's true, it has happened just as you describe it. Only, imo it's Stoner's excellent use of the Bridgestone tires that allows him to do that.

Rossi on Michelins, when lucky to be close enough, could only try to outbrake him in some biiig way and just hope to stay on track and gain enough to remain in front when exiting the curve, as his rear tire did not allow him to open the throttle as early as Stoner. Doing that was not so easy, as we have seen.

On the occasions in which the Bridgestones were not markedly superior, Stoner was not able to use this tactic to much advantage. Rossi has seen all of this in first person from closer quarters than anybody else, that's why he wants the same tires so badly.

i think Rossi wants the B's to get used to them...so in 09 he'll just need to get used to the Ducati.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Oct 30 2007, 07:06 PM) [snapback]97735[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Agree - that's true, it has happened just as you describe it. Only, imo it's Stoner's excellent use of the Bridgestone tires that allows him to do that.

Rossi on Michelins, when lucky to be close enough, could only try to outbrake him in some biiig way and just hope to stay on track and gain enough to remain in front when exiting the curve, as his rear tire did not allow him to open the throttle as early as Stoner. Doing that was not so easy, as we have seen.

On the occasions in which the Bridgestones were not markedly superior, Stoner was not able to use this tactic to much advantage. Rossi has seen all of this in first person from closer quarters than anybody else, that's why he wants the same tires so badly.



spot on.

Is Dunlop supplying tyres to anyone in 2008?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Teomolca @ Oct 30 2007, 11:00 PM) [snapback]97761[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Is Dunlop supplying tyres to anyone in 2008?


it doesn't look likely.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xx CURVE xx @ Oct 30 2007, 03:15 PM) [snapback]97737[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i think Rossi wants the B's to get used to them...so in 09 he'll just need to get used to the Ducati.


What Ducati would that be,Stoner and Melandi are signed thru 09 i believe.Would Rossi go to a sattelite ride.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Oct 31 2007, 03:47 AM) [snapback]97771[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
What Ducati would that be,Stoner and Melandi are signed thru 09 i believe.Would Rossi go to a sattelite ride.


There has been some discussion about this previously, with the concensus seeming to be that if ducati were prepared to run a third factory bike for capirossi in 2008 as they said they were, they presumably would have no problem doing the same for rossi in 2009.

Don't know about the salaries etc though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Oct 31 2007, 05:39 PM) [snapback]97779[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
There has been some discussion about this previously, with the concensus seeming to be that if ducati were prepared to run a third factory bike for capirossi in 2008 as they said they were, they presumably would have no problem doing the same for rossi in 2009.

Don't know about the salaries etc though.



Ducati wouldn't have the funds to run Stoner, Melandri & Rossi on a 3 bike team unless they are planning on running solar powered scooters in 2009?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Oct 31 2007, 06:39 AM) [snapback]97779[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
There has been some discussion about this previously, with the concensus seeming to be that if ducati were prepared to run a third factory bike for capirossi in 2008 as they said they were, they presumably would have no problem doing the same for rossi in 2009.

Don't know about the salaries etc though.

i think ducati would pull out all the stops to do that. stoner or melandri might not perform in 08 meaning there would not be the need for a third bike, guess we will all have to wait and see ,but to be honest im surprised rossi has not ditched yamaha after 2 troubled seasons. i think if rossi wanted to go to ducati he would have done what ever it took to go there for 08. now that would have been a dream come true for us, rossi and stoner on the same package.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xx CURVE xx @ Oct 30 2007, 08:15 PM) [snapback]97737[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i think Rossi wants the B's to get used to them...so in 09 he'll just need to get used to the Ducati.


Rossi preferred to go to Yamaha rather than Ducati back in 2004. The reason he gives in his book 'What if I had Never Tried It" is that he felt Ducati, just like Honda, were too bike-centric and not ready to give enough importance to the rider. I do not think that that has changed.

For 2009 or 2010 however there will/could be other interesting entries in MotoGP premier class - Aprilia and BMW for example. They could use Rossi's services...