neither of them are overrated, thats a title reserved for european riders. But Hayden's faster than Hopper..... Could be the fact that the suzi is "Uncompetitive" at the moment, and Nicky just keeps moving up the HRC parts bin pecking order, making his bike better and better.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xB Rida @ Dec 14 2005, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wow, thats ridiculous, calling Hopper overrated, up until now hayden was the overrated one not Hopper, please explain.
now xb i know ur a hopper lover but explain to me why u think he's so wonderful. proof is in the pudding & he's got none. he's been in gp's 4 seasons now & has 0 podiums. he ain't done ..... even krjr who puts forth little to no effort outperforms ur golden boy on the same under achieving machine. so why do u think he's so great ? as far as hayden is concerned i think the 05 season speaks volumes.
now xb i know ur a hopper lover but explain to me why u think he's so wonderful. proof is in the pudding & he's got none. he's been in gp's 4 seasons now & has 0 podiums. he ain't done ..... even krjr who puts forth little to no effort outperforms ur golden boy on the same under achieving machine. so why do u think he's so great ? as far as hayden is concerned i think the 05 season speaks volumes.
good point Frosty, but Hopper just one of those guys you like, you know? And despite the facts, I got this gut feeling that he's got potential. I think Xb would agree
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Dec 16 2005, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>good point Frosty, but Hopper just one of those guys you like, you know? And despite the facts, I got this gut feeling that he's got potential. I think Xb would agree
yea xb will def agree. i don't hate the boy or anything like that. he talks .... sometimes when he can't back it up. also tired of hearin about "the rising young star". when's the star gonna start rising? more like a murky pin prick in deep space right now!
oh by the way, good to see some more thunder from down under mate!
yea xb will def agree. i don't hate the boy or anything like that. he talks .... sometimes when he can't back it up. also tired of hearin about "the rising young star". when's the star gonna start rising? more like a murky pin prick in deep space right now!
oh by the way, good to see some more thunder from down under mate!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Dec 15 2005, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>neither of them are overrated, thats a title reserved for european riders. But Hayden's faster than Hopper..... Could be the fact that the suzi is "Uncompetitive" at the moment, and Nicky just keeps moving up the HRC parts bin pecking order, making his bike better and better.
We´re so overrated that we took all 3 titles (Italian, Spaniard, Swiss) and have been doing that for the last 3 years on a row, meanwhile the Hopper was doing nothing as Frosty pointed out, and Hayden has been doing nothing until this year despite being touted as the great Anti-Rossi weapon and having HRC material for 3 years so to me the overrated are the Americans right now.
We´re so overrated that we took all 3 titles (Italian, Spaniard, Swiss) and have been doing that for the last 3 years on a row, meanwhile the Hopper was doing nothing as Frosty pointed out, and Hayden has been doing nothing until this year despite being touted as the great Anti-Rossi weapon and having HRC material for 3 years so to me the overrated are the Americans right now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (teomolca @ Dec 16 2005, 11:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We´re so overrated that we took all 3 titles (Italian, Spaniard, Swiss) and have been doing that for the last 3 years on a row, meanwhile the Hopper was doing nothing as Frosty pointed out, and Hayden has been doing nothing until this year despite being touted as the great Anti-Rossi weapon and having HRC material for 3 years so to me the overrated are the Americans right now.
teo i think hayden has been overhyped, not overrated.he's coming good now & 06 he needs to prove himself bigtime.i think he will.
teo i think hayden has been overhyped, not overrated.he's coming good now & 06 he needs to prove himself bigtime.i think he will.
Hopkins has been in GP's 4 seasons but for some reason he always gets on a ...... bike. He would have been on a competitive 500cc if he had gone in a year sooner but then the 4-strokes killed his Yamaha.
Then he went with Suzuki and ever since then his bike has been what is holding him back. The bike, tires, something always holds him back compared to the rest like Hayden on the best bike on the grid with the best tires.
If you look in his riding, no one person passes him in the corners (save for Rossi in the godlike performance at Valencia). He carries great corner speed and always gets beat on the straightaways, he gets outpowered.
He qualifies extremely well for a person in such a crappy bike, he was the top Bridgestone qualifier for most of the season until Capirex started dominating that aspect. He rides extremely well and the bike is decent but when put in a race the weaknesses of it are easily seen.
If you are talking about KRJR outperforming him, I think you are recalling Donington this year. KRJR takes to water like a duck and he is a wet-weather specialist. I believe Hopper had the lead for awhile and was beating him until his visor has fogged up and he had to get off track.
The star has been rising, he has been qualifying better every year. He gives 110% every time he gets on the bike and beat one of the most experienced riders on the grid, a former world champion who was the last one to beat Rossi.
Hopper is not as known or as famous as the other Americans on the grid because the other Americans are a two-time WSBK world champion(Edwards), former MotoGP champion and son of a racing legend (Roberts Jr), and a media darling who rides on the best bike on the best team (Hayden). Hopkins went in and win his championships quickly adn quietly. He won his races and moved up the ranks quietly letting his riding do the talking.
By consistently out-qualifying other riders on better machinery and tires, he has proven to the world he is extremely talented. It is well-known Ducati made serious offers to try to get his services, and offers from Yamaha had also been received but rejected. I wish there was a way we could put all of the riders on an equal machine and let them fight it out but since there isn't we will just have to see pure talent beat others that have a machinery advantage, I like him because everyone thinks the bike shouldn't be that high on the grid but then you see that lone Suzuki in the middle of the Hondas and Yamahas.
Then he went with Suzuki and ever since then his bike has been what is holding him back. The bike, tires, something always holds him back compared to the rest like Hayden on the best bike on the grid with the best tires.
If you look in his riding, no one person passes him in the corners (save for Rossi in the godlike performance at Valencia). He carries great corner speed and always gets beat on the straightaways, he gets outpowered.
He qualifies extremely well for a person in such a crappy bike, he was the top Bridgestone qualifier for most of the season until Capirex started dominating that aspect. He rides extremely well and the bike is decent but when put in a race the weaknesses of it are easily seen.
If you are talking about KRJR outperforming him, I think you are recalling Donington this year. KRJR takes to water like a duck and he is a wet-weather specialist. I believe Hopper had the lead for awhile and was beating him until his visor has fogged up and he had to get off track.
The star has been rising, he has been qualifying better every year. He gives 110% every time he gets on the bike and beat one of the most experienced riders on the grid, a former world champion who was the last one to beat Rossi.
Hopper is not as known or as famous as the other Americans on the grid because the other Americans are a two-time WSBK world champion(Edwards), former MotoGP champion and son of a racing legend (Roberts Jr), and a media darling who rides on the best bike on the best team (Hayden). Hopkins went in and win his championships quickly adn quietly. He won his races and moved up the ranks quietly letting his riding do the talking.
By consistently out-qualifying other riders on better machinery and tires, he has proven to the world he is extremely talented. It is well-known Ducati made serious offers to try to get his services, and offers from Yamaha had also been received but rejected. I wish there was a way we could put all of the riders on an equal machine and let them fight it out but since there isn't we will just have to see pure talent beat others that have a machinery advantage, I like him because everyone thinks the bike shouldn't be that high on the grid but then you see that lone Suzuki in the middle of the Hondas and Yamahas.
well xb ur faith in 21 seems unflinching. just like teos faith in pedrosa. but pedrosa, unlike hopper has proved his ability with many wins & some championships along the way. maybe your faith will be rewarded. hmmm some how i doubt it tho.
Good thread.
Have to agree Hopkins hasn't done much and dosn't look to be.
Hayden well after 3 years on the best Machinery, next year is the be all end for him, if he can't do something in 2006 he never well. He is overated. It must have cut him up big time when Pedrosa went faster than him the other day in the tests. I wouldn't have picked that. But who knows what they were working on at the time. Or if Danny had a sticky on.
Have to agree Hopkins hasn't done much and dosn't look to be.
Hayden well after 3 years on the best Machinery, next year is the be all end for him, if he can't do something in 2006 he never well. He is overated. It must have cut him up big time when Pedrosa went faster than him the other day in the tests. I wouldn't have picked that. But who knows what they were working on at the time. Or if Danny had a sticky on.
To be honest with you I do not think my faith in him will be rewarded with a race win and definitely not a championship win for the next two years since he will be on the GSV-R. John will not get anything done in terms of winning a race unless it is raining because of the damn bike.
My faith will be rewarded in terms of him showing his raw talent every time he gets on the bike. It will be rewarded when he outqualifies people that are on better machines than him.
To prove how a rider can have all the talent in the world and still end up mid-pack lets see how Vermeullen will fair in MotoGP. Yes, it is his learning year and everything but we have seen what CV can do and we will all see how the bike can hinder his results even after being given all that talent. The same thing is what happened to Hopkins, tons of talent but no bike. If we were to switch Hayden and Hopkins around we would be talking about how Hayden has all this talent but not the bike or the results.
BUT WAIT he has had the bike with no results!! Like Marbles said, 2006 will be the year for Hayden, he will have to step it up and I have no doubt he can do it, SO DO IT! Keep up the late 2005 form and do it Nicky!
As for Pedrosa winning championships. Pedrosa was on a top factory team where most of the challengers had about the same machinery and were all (for the most part) on an even playing field. He was competitive and showed us all how he has talent and has won three championships now. I do not want to discredit Pedrosa in any way, the kid is good and he will have a good future.
Hopkins has proven his ability in the AMA with the championships he won. He has been kicking older people's ..... ever since he was little. So while Pedrosa showed us what he can do with his championships in the smaller classes of MotoGP, Hopkins and Hayden have shown us what they can do in the AMA. I do not know if you have seen the movie Faster but that gives you an insight into Hopper's talent.
My faith will be rewarded in terms of him showing his raw talent every time he gets on the bike. It will be rewarded when he outqualifies people that are on better machines than him.
To prove how a rider can have all the talent in the world and still end up mid-pack lets see how Vermeullen will fair in MotoGP. Yes, it is his learning year and everything but we have seen what CV can do and we will all see how the bike can hinder his results even after being given all that talent. The same thing is what happened to Hopkins, tons of talent but no bike. If we were to switch Hayden and Hopkins around we would be talking about how Hayden has all this talent but not the bike or the results.
BUT WAIT he has had the bike with no results!! Like Marbles said, 2006 will be the year for Hayden, he will have to step it up and I have no doubt he can do it, SO DO IT! Keep up the late 2005 form and do it Nicky!
As for Pedrosa winning championships. Pedrosa was on a top factory team where most of the challengers had about the same machinery and were all (for the most part) on an even playing field. He was competitive and showed us all how he has talent and has won three championships now. I do not want to discredit Pedrosa in any way, the kid is good and he will have a good future.
Hopkins has proven his ability in the AMA with the championships he won. He has been kicking older people's ..... ever since he was little. So while Pedrosa showed us what he can do with his championships in the smaller classes of MotoGP, Hopkins and Hayden have shown us what they can do in the AMA. I do not know if you have seen the movie Faster but that gives you an insight into Hopper's talent.
Joined Mar 2005
7K Posts | 20+
Woody Creek
Keep in mind Ben, Nicky doesn't crash out of third at Jerez that's an additional 16 points to add to his final 206 tally which would put him at 222. If Nicky doesn't crash at Jerez then Melandri takes fourth and 13 points rather than 16 which would place him at 217. If Nicky continues his consistency the rivalry between the two will be much closer than many think. Personally, I think Hayden beats Melandri in a very close race for second.
i agree with you Ooost.06 hayden beats melandri. 06 will be his make it or break it year tho. i think he's reached the level he needs to be at.it's that mental level i speak of. it's the most difficult level to reach & i think both hayden & melandri have reached it. as far as hopper is concerned xb i know he's talented. i think nobody will argue about that but racing is about winning races & championships, not showcasing your riding skills. hopper was touted as the new kevin schwantz. well i think ks record after 4 seasons in gp's was alot better than a top placing of 5th.but anyway....
you know i can't think of a time when we all sit around waiting for a great season we know will be.and it's about who's gonna finish 2nd cos will all think we know who's gonna win. funny stuff... but ya gotta love it
you know i can't think of a time when we all sit around waiting for a great season we know will be.and it's about who's gonna finish 2nd cos will all think we know who's gonna win. funny stuff... but ya gotta love it
I feel you on that one frosty. Comparisons were made about how they ride aggressively and both were young Americans, they both ride Suzuki now and all that good stuff.
By showcasing his skills to the other manufacturers will make them want to look at him and he can get a better bike. As soon as he gets a copetitive bike under him we will see him win races.
By showcasing his skills to the other manufacturers will make them want to look at him and he can get a better bike. As soon as he gets a copetitive bike under him we will see him win races.
Joined Mar 2005
7K Posts | 20+
Woody Creek
I'm real torn with Hopper right now. I know he has a real good relationship with Suzuki and he feels as though they can be competitive as they were in 2000 and the days of Kevin Schwantz. The question I have is did Hopper make the decision to stay with Suzuki with his head or heart. It sounds as though he has a great relationship with his team but that alone isn't going to get him to the world championship. If in his head he truly believes that Suzuki will become competitive then I am glad he will start winning on a machine that he headed the development on and stood by. But if he made the decision based on his relationship with the team and a hope that the Suzuki would make the bike better then I am a little upset with Hopper. Because he had a factory Ducati offer which has proven race pace, as well as reportedly satellite rides for Yamaha and Honda. He talks a lot about how bummed he would be if he left Suzuki and suddenly the bike got good and somebody was reaping the benefits of all the hard work he made and then jumped ship. My question is this, what if the bike never comes good?
I think that is why he is sticking with them for 2006 after he gets to put all of his input into the bike during this season and hopefully they will design the 800cc bike around him. If they don't have a good bike then I am thinking he will switch bikes and get something better.
i don't know? i think he shoulda went with ducati. if the offer were genuine. after all suzuki seem to have been promising to make the bike better & better & better but it never seems to happen. i can understand the bike losing out on the big high speed tracks, being down on hp & all, but the bike should do well at the tight twisty circuits. sachsenring, laguna seca...
