Well I read an interview today with Toni Elias and he says the WSBK rumour is completely false, and that he has no interest whatsoeve in WSBK, he wants to stay in MotoGP and he'll take a tester job in GP rather than going to WSBK (literally translated).
Well I think Toni shares the Spanish point of view on SBK, that is, WSBK is for losers, GP dinasours and young developing riders from the anglo-saxon world, and he doesn't fit in any of those categories.
I'll welcome any new team on the grid, I think right now there's too few bikes, and it's up to the manufacturers to put more bikes on the grid cause we've seen with KR and Ilmor that it's very hard to be small team here and survive.
I think Toni's future is still quite undecided, it will depend in the results until the end of the year. If he keeps up the good work he's shown since he got the new parts from Ducati, he should have no trouble staying in Alice. If he's as quick as in the last race, I wouldn't discard a Marlboro Ducati (unless the Hayden thing is already inked). If he is not convincing he might still stay with Alice (he's done better than Guintoli anyway) or move into Aspar's team or some other satellite ride.
Well I think Toni shares the Spanish point of view on SBK, that is, WSBK is for losers, GP dinasours and young developing riders from the anglo-saxon world, and he doesn't fit in any of those categories.
I'll welcome any new team on the grid, I think right now there's too few bikes, and it's up to the manufacturers to put more bikes on the grid cause we've seen with KR and Ilmor that it's very hard to be small team here and survive.
I think Toni's future is still quite undecided, it will depend in the results until the end of the year. If he keeps up the good work he's shown since he got the new parts from Ducati, he should have no trouble staying in Alice. If he's as quick as in the last race, I wouldn't discard a Marlboro Ducati (unless the Hayden thing is already inked). If he is not convincing he might still stay with Alice (he's done better than Guintoli anyway) or move into Aspar's team or some other satellite ride.
Joined Jun 2008
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America
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 18 2008, 08:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Come on... Shinya has always outperform his team mates throughout his career so you can't say the guy is a lame duck. Just never landed that ride to show his full potential, hopefully he continues to improve on the factory bike which seems to suit his riding style.
Even if Shinya landed a factory ride he's not setting the world on fire regardless. He is good don't get me wrong but in the company he is in he will always be a midpack rider no matter what. Sure can he win one here and there on the ocasional flub from the top guys? OK. But he isn't going to be in MotoGP much longer in my opinion. Plus if he hasn't had a factory ride yet there is no way that is going to happen with the crop of guys continuously coming up.
Even if Shinya landed a factory ride he's not setting the world on fire regardless. He is good don't get me wrong but in the company he is in he will always be a midpack rider no matter what. Sure can he win one here and there on the ocasional flub from the top guys? OK. But he isn't going to be in MotoGP much longer in my opinion. Plus if he hasn't had a factory ride yet there is no way that is going to happen with the crop of guys continuously coming up.
Joined Mar 2005
7K Posts | 20+
Woody Creek
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Aug 18 2008, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>100% agree. spies needs to move to the world NOW! wether a ride in gps or wsbk. and wsbk rider quality & especially track quality (most anyway) are way higher than the ama. spies has 1 guy to compete with in ama, mladin & thats it. it's a joke.
and what is happening with the series right now does not bode well for sbk riders here in the states.
What is sad is how no one involved with American road racing seems to understand that. A Suzuki 1-2-3 is not a big deal, Tommy Hayden being 20 seconds behind on the same team is acceptable. Hacking being the only one remotely close another 5 seconds back is also OK, actually commendable (which it is, the ZX10R is a piece of ....). American Hondas and Yamahas rounding out the top 10, hey, this is a tough series.
I love these riders, I grew up with the AMA. But the fact is that everyone is so far off the Suzukis that there is no competition. The AMA gets no respect, and they shouldn't. Either there is a loophole in the rules that Suzuki are taking advantage of (which I doubt), or the rest just aren't putting in any effort or have incompetent teams or a combination of the ladder two. Spies beating Mladin is respectable, but other than those two the AMA is nothing. And no one seems to understand that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 18 2008, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If Spies was to go to WSBK, he will probably be a mediocre rider at best.... thus making him lose his name, so bye bye to a chance at MotoGP. But if he continues to stay in AMA, he will continue to dominate against sub par riders making his name appear Big... thus giving him a possible chance to make it in Moto GP.
Spies has been beating Mladin for the better part of the past three seasons and the last time Mladin was on the same track with the WSB boys it was a test at PI in January of 2006. Troy Corser was the world champion and Mladin the defending AMA champion. Mladin hadn't ridden the track since he had a few laps in 2000 or 2002 on a Suzuki GP bike. Mladin set the fastest time of the test, both on race and Q tires. So there's a measuring stick. And his ride at Donny, also a measuring stick. And the last AMA champion to go to GP is now a world champion, he happen to beat the same man Spies is currently beating. Mind you Spies is doing it on equal machinery, Hayden did it when the RC51 was likely the best Superbike in the world and the GSX-R750 was at the end of its development.
Spies is the real deal. I don't particularly care for him (although anyone who beats Mladin is alright in my books) but he is the real deal. It's hard to say how he will stack up to Hayden's career as I don't think he'll be able to land the ride Hayden did; but I think talent-wise, Spies is as good, if not better than Hayden.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Aug 18 2008, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well I read an interview today with Toni Elias and he says the WSBK rumour is completely false, and that he has no interest whatsoeve in WSBK, he wants to stay in MotoGP and he'll take a tester job in GP rather than going to WSBK (literally translated).
Well I think Toni shares the Spanish point of view on SBK, that is, WSBK is for losers, GP dinasours and young developing riders from the anglo-saxon world, and he doesn't fit in any of those categories.
I'll welcome any new team on the grid, I think right now there's too few bikes, and it's up to the manufacturers to put more bikes on the grid cause we've seen with KR and Ilmor that it's very hard to be small team here and survive.
I think Toni's future is still quite undecided, it will depend in the results until the end of the year. If he keeps up the good work he's shown since he got the new parts from Ducati, he should have no trouble staying in Alice. If he's as quick as in the last race, I wouldn't discard a Marlboro Ducati (unless the Hayden thing is already inked). If he is not convincing he might still stay with Alice (he's done better than Guintoli anyway) or move into Aspar's team or some other satellite ride.
Yeah I saw that Elias said the Superbike rumors weren't true. Sad because I think he could have really been fun to watch on a Superbike.
And you led right to where I was thinking Teo, Elias would be a great fit on the Aspar team.
What is sad is how no one involved with American road racing seems to understand that. A Suzuki 1-2-3 is not a big deal, Tommy Hayden being 20 seconds behind on the same team is acceptable. Hacking being the only one remotely close another 5 seconds back is also OK, actually commendable (which it is, the ZX10R is a piece of ....). American Hondas and Yamahas rounding out the top 10, hey, this is a tough series.
I love these riders, I grew up with the AMA. But the fact is that everyone is so far off the Suzukis that there is no competition. The AMA gets no respect, and they shouldn't. Either there is a loophole in the rules that Suzuki are taking advantage of (which I doubt), or the rest just aren't putting in any effort or have incompetent teams or a combination of the ladder two. Spies beating Mladin is respectable, but other than those two the AMA is nothing. And no one seems to understand that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 18 2008, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If Spies was to go to WSBK, he will probably be a mediocre rider at best.... thus making him lose his name, so bye bye to a chance at MotoGP. But if he continues to stay in AMA, he will continue to dominate against sub par riders making his name appear Big... thus giving him a possible chance to make it in Moto GP.
Spies has been beating Mladin for the better part of the past three seasons and the last time Mladin was on the same track with the WSB boys it was a test at PI in January of 2006. Troy Corser was the world champion and Mladin the defending AMA champion. Mladin hadn't ridden the track since he had a few laps in 2000 or 2002 on a Suzuki GP bike. Mladin set the fastest time of the test, both on race and Q tires. So there's a measuring stick. And his ride at Donny, also a measuring stick. And the last AMA champion to go to GP is now a world champion, he happen to beat the same man Spies is currently beating. Mind you Spies is doing it on equal machinery, Hayden did it when the RC51 was likely the best Superbike in the world and the GSX-R750 was at the end of its development.
Spies is the real deal. I don't particularly care for him (although anyone who beats Mladin is alright in my books) but he is the real deal. It's hard to say how he will stack up to Hayden's career as I don't think he'll be able to land the ride Hayden did; but I think talent-wise, Spies is as good, if not better than Hayden.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Aug 18 2008, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well I read an interview today with Toni Elias and he says the WSBK rumour is completely false, and that he has no interest whatsoeve in WSBK, he wants to stay in MotoGP and he'll take a tester job in GP rather than going to WSBK (literally translated).
Well I think Toni shares the Spanish point of view on SBK, that is, WSBK is for losers, GP dinasours and young developing riders from the anglo-saxon world, and he doesn't fit in any of those categories.
I'll welcome any new team on the grid, I think right now there's too few bikes, and it's up to the manufacturers to put more bikes on the grid cause we've seen with KR and Ilmor that it's very hard to be small team here and survive.
I think Toni's future is still quite undecided, it will depend in the results until the end of the year. If he keeps up the good work he's shown since he got the new parts from Ducati, he should have no trouble staying in Alice. If he's as quick as in the last race, I wouldn't discard a Marlboro Ducati (unless the Hayden thing is already inked). If he is not convincing he might still stay with Alice (he's done better than Guintoli anyway) or move into Aspar's team or some other satellite ride.
Yeah I saw that Elias said the Superbike rumors weren't true. Sad because I think he could have really been fun to watch on a Superbike.
And you led right to where I was thinking Teo, Elias would be a great fit on the Aspar team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 18 2008, 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies is the real deal. I don't particularly care for him (although anyone who beats Mladin is alright in my books) but he is the real deal. It's hard to say how he will stack up to Hayden's career as I don't think he'll be able to land the ride Hayden did; but I think talent-wise, Spies is as good, if not better than Hayden.
It takes a lot more than talent to get to the top. Spies has done brilliantly at home but he needs to step up to a world championship, whatever it is. It is risky going to world superbike at this stage in his career because he'll need at least 2 years to rack up serious success and its possible he could be unspectacular, which would silence all the hype surrounding him. I think ultimately though he needs to take on another challenge (even if it means getting paid less) because the learning curve in his AMA comfort zone will be almost flat.
It takes a lot more than talent to get to the top. Spies has done brilliantly at home but he needs to step up to a world championship, whatever it is. It is risky going to world superbike at this stage in his career because he'll need at least 2 years to rack up serious success and its possible he could be unspectacular, which would silence all the hype surrounding him. I think ultimately though he needs to take on another challenge (even if it means getting paid less) because the learning curve in his AMA comfort zone will be almost flat.
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America
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 19 2008, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It takes a lot more than talent to get to the top. Spies has done brilliantly at home but he needs to step up to a world championship, whatever it is. It is risky going to world superbike at this stage in his career because he'll need at least 2 years to rack up serious success and its possible he could be unspectacular, which would silence all the hype surrounding him. I think ultimately though he needs to take on another challenge (even if it means getting paid less) because the learning curve in his AMA comfort zone will be almost flat.
Spies no matter what should find a way onto a team just to get into MOTOGP. Look at Dovi and Spies wants a full factory ride. .... he should be jumpin for joy and take what he can get then he has at least the same chance to prove he is worth being there. IF he gets a full factory ride he is the luckiest mofo in the paddock.
Spies no matter what should find a way onto a team just to get into MOTOGP. Look at Dovi and Spies wants a full factory ride. .... he should be jumpin for joy and take what he can get then he has at least the same chance to prove he is worth being there. IF he gets a full factory ride he is the luckiest mofo in the paddock.
Joined Mar 2005
7K Posts | 20+
Woody Creek
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 18 2008, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It takes a lot more than talent to get to the top. Spies has done brilliantly at home but he needs to step up to a world championship, whatever it is. It is risky going to world superbike at this stage in his career because he'll need at least 2 years to rack up serious success and its possible he could be unspectacular, which would silence all the hype surrounding him. I think ultimately though he needs to take on another challenge (even if it means getting paid less) because the learning curve in his AMA comfort zone will be almost flat.
Oh absolutely, I'm not disagreeing with you in the slightest. He needs to get to Europe. Especially with the chaos that is about to ensue in American road racing. He needs to take a risk and go. If not he will always have Mladin syndrome (big fish, small pond). And once you get that, you can kiss a ride in a world championship goodbye.
And if it really is about the money, then he's doomed. It's hard to find that last one percent, that last one one-hundredth of a second when you're worrying about your next signing bonus or which energy drink you'll sign with.
Oh absolutely, I'm not disagreeing with you in the slightest. He needs to get to Europe. Especially with the chaos that is about to ensue in American road racing. He needs to take a risk and go. If not he will always have Mladin syndrome (big fish, small pond). And once you get that, you can kiss a ride in a world championship goodbye.
And if it really is about the money, then he's doomed. It's hard to find that last one percent, that last one one-hundredth of a second when you're worrying about your next signing bonus or which energy drink you'll sign with.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 19 2008, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh absolutely, I'm not disagreeing with you in the slightest. He needs to get to Europe. Especially with the chaos that is about to ensue in American road racing. He needs to take a risk and go. If not he will always have Mladin syndrome (big fish, small pond). And once you get that, you can kiss a ride in a world championship goodbye.
And if it really is about the money, then he's doomed. It's hard to find that last one percent, that last one one-hundredth of a second when you're worrying about your next signing bonus or which energy drink you'll sign with.
I agree, He has beaten Mladdin so that the AMA job done, get out while you still can. Coming to europe he can measure himself against known quantities, display his ability to learn and progress as a rider. He can't do any of these things in his current circumstances.
And if it really is about the money, then he's doomed. It's hard to find that last one percent, that last one one-hundredth of a second when you're worrying about your next signing bonus or which energy drink you'll sign with.
I agree, He has beaten Mladdin so that the AMA job done, get out while you still can. Coming to europe he can measure himself against known quantities, display his ability to learn and progress as a rider. He can't do any of these things in his current circumstances.
Joined Mar 2005
7K Posts | 20+
Woody Creek
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 18 2008, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree, He has beaten Mladdin so that the AMA job done, get out while you still can. Coming to europe he can measure himself against known quantities, display his ability to learn and progress as a rider. He can't do any of these things in his current circumstances.
Absolutely, the learning curve in the states has stalled. Time for something new.
Absolutely, the learning curve in the states has stalled. Time for something new.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 18 2008, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Absolutely, the learning curve in the states has stalled. Time for something new.
Why? why not be a big fish in a small pond? That's how you get out your name out there, that's how you bring in the sponsors, etc.. You think Spies want to risk his moto gp dreams by going to WSBK? he knows if he goes there it's trouble for him, personally i think he'll get eatin' alive if he ever decides to go there, but that's just my opinion though. if he's smart...wait it out a few more years, at least your name will still be out in the papers giving you exposure and a chance at Moto GP, however small it is.
Why? why not be a big fish in a small pond? That's how you get out your name out there, that's how you bring in the sponsors, etc.. You think Spies want to risk his moto gp dreams by going to WSBK? he knows if he goes there it's trouble for him, personally i think he'll get eatin' alive if he ever decides to go there, but that's just my opinion though. if he's smart...wait it out a few more years, at least your name will still be out in the papers giving you exposure and a chance at Moto GP, however small it is.
Joined Mar 2005
7K Posts | 20+
Woody Creek
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 18 2008, 07:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why? why not be a big fish in a small pond? That's how you get out your name out there, that's how you bring in the sponsors, etc.. You think Spies want to risk his moto gp dreams by going to WSBK? he knows if he goes there it's trouble for him, personally i think he'll get eatin' alive if he ever decides to go there, but that's just my opinion though. if he's smart...wait it out a few more years, at least your name will still be out in the papers giving you exposure and a chance at Moto GP, however small it is.
Because the big fish/small pond scenario is only good for your name for a couple of years. If he stays in AMA he likely won't get any more notice than he has now and my opinion is he would likely get less attention. It's the natural progression of the sport. You may be right and he may get eaten alive but he's not going to get the ride he wants by staying stateside, just as a 125 rider is not going to get the MotoGP ride he wants. If you want the reward, you have to take the risk.
And the stuff Schwantz has been feeding him about WSB being a step sideways is a load of rubbish. Talent wise, the top guys there may not be much faster than Spies and Mladin if at all, but it puts your name on the global stage.
Because the big fish/small pond scenario is only good for your name for a couple of years. If he stays in AMA he likely won't get any more notice than he has now and my opinion is he would likely get less attention. It's the natural progression of the sport. You may be right and he may get eaten alive but he's not going to get the ride he wants by staying stateside, just as a 125 rider is not going to get the MotoGP ride he wants. If you want the reward, you have to take the risk.
And the stuff Schwantz has been feeding him about WSB being a step sideways is a load of rubbish. Talent wise, the top guys there may not be much faster than Spies and Mladin if at all, but it puts your name on the global stage.
Joined Jun 2008
2K Posts | 6+
America
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 19 2008, 01:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Because the big fish/small pond scenario is only good for your name for a couple of years. If he stays in AMA he likely won't get any more notice than he has now and my opinion is he would likely get less attention. It's the natural progression of the sport. You may be right and he may get eaten alive but he's not going to get the ride he wants by staying stateside, just as a 125 rider is not going to get the MotoGP ride he wants. If you want the reward, you have to take the risk.
And the stuff Schwantz has been feeding him about WSB being a step sideways is a load of rubbish. Talent wise, the top guys there may not be much faster than Spies and Mladin if at all, but it puts your name on the global stage.
If Ben wants a MOTOGP ride he had better do it now.
And the stuff Schwantz has been feeding him about WSB being a step sideways is a load of rubbish. Talent wise, the top guys there may not be much faster than Spies and Mladin if at all, but it puts your name on the global stage.
If Ben wants a MOTOGP ride he had better do it now.
Spies proved he has the talent to ride motogp at at least mid pack level. He will not get eaten alive in WSBK. But, you are right shinya fan, taking a wsbk ride is a huge risk as current team managers in motogp seem to only take the very very top of that series seriously whereas the top several in 250s are given credit. Basically, if Ben cant win the wsbk championship in his first year he is in trouble
Yet, if he cant win the wsbk championship in his first year than he isn't motogp champion quality, so the problem will solve itself really. I personally can't see where spies (or toselandnow that I think about it) can squeeze a championship in between the stoner/pedrosa/lorenzo/dovy future assuming he does eventually get a gp ride. Although he could pull it out of his ... like stoner did so I guess you can never write anyone off. That said, he really does need to get to europe in any way shape or form to at least make future "motogp champion" an attainable goal rather than a current fantasy. Its risky because failing is easy, but if he truly has it then it should be np.
Elias on a superbike just doesn't work in my mind, he seems too small. He handles the gigantic duc decently I suppose, although it weighs a ton less than a sbk. Biaggi is smaller and does just fine so maybe elias would be ok.
Nakano outperforming his teammates is interesting as of late, since his last full season saw him on a one rider team...not much to draw from there. I think kiyonari is Japan's future, but he has the same problem a wsbk bound spies would have. Winning a wsbk championship is just too hard to be a practical stepping stone into motogp since only the #1 wsbk rider is considered for a ride more often than not. Takahashi would simply be Nakano 2.0.
Yet, if he cant win the wsbk championship in his first year than he isn't motogp champion quality, so the problem will solve itself really. I personally can't see where spies (or toselandnow that I think about it) can squeeze a championship in between the stoner/pedrosa/lorenzo/dovy future assuming he does eventually get a gp ride. Although he could pull it out of his ... like stoner did so I guess you can never write anyone off. That said, he really does need to get to europe in any way shape or form to at least make future "motogp champion" an attainable goal rather than a current fantasy. Its risky because failing is easy, but if he truly has it then it should be np.
Elias on a superbike just doesn't work in my mind, he seems too small. He handles the gigantic duc decently I suppose, although it weighs a ton less than a sbk. Biaggi is smaller and does just fine so maybe elias would be ok.
Nakano outperforming his teammates is interesting as of late, since his last full season saw him on a one rider team...not much to draw from there. I think kiyonari is Japan's future, but he has the same problem a wsbk bound spies would have. Winning a wsbk championship is just too hard to be a practical stepping stone into motogp since only the #1 wsbk rider is considered for a ride more often than not. Takahashi would simply be Nakano 2.0.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 19 2008, 01:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Because the big fish/small pond scenario is only good for your name for a couple of years. If he stays in AMA he likely won't get any more notice than he has now and my opinion is he would likely get less attention.
I agree, rocking up as the new kid on the block and beating the established rider(s) is very attention grabbing, stick around to do it over and over and the buzz will wear off.
I agree, rocking up as the new kid on the block and beating the established rider(s) is very attention grabbing, stick around to do it over and over and the buzz will wear off.
Back on topic...now we have this.
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...d_kawasaki.html
Kawasaki are saying that nobody has approached them about a third Kawi. What's really going on?
You gotta love silly season.
Also I love how in the course of one race West has gone from the destined-to-be-fired list to the list of possible candidates for a Kawi ride.
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...d_kawasaki.html
Kawasaki are saying that nobody has approached them about a third Kawi. What's really going on?
You gotta love silly season.
Also I love how in the course of one race West has gone from the destined-to-be-fired list to the list of possible candidates for a Kawi ride.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ThePhorest @ Aug 20 2008, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Also I love how in the course of one race West has gone from the destined-to-be-fired list to the list of possible candidates for a Kawi ride.
It has happened for other riders, look at Elias.
It has happened for other riders, look at Elias.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Aug 20 2008, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It has happened for other riders, look at Elias.
Yeah, and I think he's saved his skin once again.
"Contract time" never ceases to amaze me. I wish the teams would have a bit of a wider view. Doing jack-all through most of the season then going balls out for one race just doesn't cut it, IMO.
Yeah, and I think he's saved his skin once again.
"Contract time" never ceases to amaze me. I wish the teams would have a bit of a wider view. Doing jack-all through most of the season then going balls out for one race just doesn't cut it, IMO.
