800cc vs 990cc

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Apr 25 2009, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You serious about getting one of those babys mick ?
Not the 1100, but I am seriously intrigued by the TSS500 powerplant for a racing RZ350/TZ250 hybrid chassis and rolling stock mothballed at home... and curious about the cost of the turnkey RS500GP...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Apr 25 2009, 01:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No thanks . 1100cc smoker triple in GP trim... A fiesta of resplendent sensory overload.

The TSS1100GP is intriguing to say the least:
.....................
The target is 250 rear wheel horsepower at 9500rpm, and just shy of DOUBLE the torque of the original ZX-10R motor. This will be easily achievable, with an engine that weighs 25kg less than the outgoing four-stroke 1000cc engine.

I'm afraid they are designing a very effective machine to produce widows....
The 500cc cc twin with 112 bhp would be nice though, as a durable sunday track machine to replace our aging ex-GP 250s.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 25 2009, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>£30,000 (I was going to say in real money - that's a laugh - I'm thinking in terms of before sterling was transformed overnight into monopoly money by our banking buffoons), anyway...£30,000... what's that in Bhats Mick?

This is hilarious. This guy Steve Rothwell is so contemptious of four strokes, that he branded the '06 zx10 the 'slowest fast bike I've ever ridden' - So suitably underwhelmed by the sloth-like characteristics of our favorite Ninja this is his prescribed succor, a shot in the arm to remedy the contagion he brands as 'the plague of four strokes' -a two stroke rocket up your ....

So it seems Rothwell was involved in perfecting the Britten motor...as if you needed any better reason to buy one

83ftlb of torque capable of 250bhp at the back wheel, and the bike weighs 150kg?????!!!

Forget anything vaguely resembling linear power delivery...I mean, imagine the 'lightswitch' powerband on this thing...and I used to think the RG500 gamma carried a kick

What's all this crap about the Otto cycle being divided into four anyway's

Keep it simple - and while you're at it, bring back the 500's
fingers crossed my 6 numbers come in tonight

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MotoGpDylwah @ Apr 24 2009, 10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes! Yes! Yes!

I think you and I have more interest in common than our disagreements let on. 800cc 8 cylinder supercharged über-motor, anyone?

I'm actually hoping for a 2 liter super thumper, but I'm not holding my breath.

Leave it to us Americans, you might get it:
VisorDown 3.5 Liter

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MotoGpDylwah @ May 21 2009, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Leave it to us Americans, you might get it:
VisorDown 3.5 Liter

Comeon! you guys are nuts!

At least we Australians have got our development for the future of motgp underway ....

The future is not just cost cutting and efficiency, its going further! its going recycling ...

http://www.deus.com.au/#/bikes/motorcycles...grevious-angel/




Actually I love their work ..... great looking bikes, was waiting at a local ferry here and about 6 of them pulled up behind me ..... amazing build and finish.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ May 21 2009, 10:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Comeon! you guys are nuts!

At least we Australians have got our development for the future of motgp underway ....

The future is not just cost cutting and efficiency, its going further! its going recycling ...

http://www.deus.com.au/#/bikes/motorcycles...grevious-angel/




Actually I love their work ..... great looking bikes, was waiting at a local ferry here and about 6 of them pulled up behind me ..... amazing build and finish.
They are really smart operators and believers in vertical integration, not only building cafe racers but having a fairly decent cafe on their premises; I have breakfast there at least once a week.

The 800cc GP machine is all about balance. And <u>that</u> is why it is so good. It has the right dimensions in every area and nothing is dominant. The introduction was sloppy and the factories responded poorly and then came a worldwide US instigated market meltdown that hasn't helped. But you can hardly fault the model for these things. The 990 was a super superbike not a GP machine and for sure it touched the US heart for excess personally but the switch from 2 strokes was inevitable as 2 strokes just aren't marketable so no factory would support them. The 4 strokes aren't all that complicated geometry wise and yes they do have more parts. This actually makes them better engines since you can separate out the sub functions and work on bettering them individually. It is hard to speculate about the future precisely but this year the racing has been excellent with more contenders than there has been for some while so it is coming together finally. Overall the 800 is the better machine.

Kudos to the guy who started this thread.

990cc vs 800cc is about increasing cost and strengthen Honda domination in MotoGP sport. But Ducati and Suzuki break the invasion using their assets (desmo valve and Stoner for Ducati, pneumatics valve for Suzuki) and putting back the essence of MotoGP (Corner speed and acceleration) into it's proper place.

Evidences show Honda still continue their power hungry dominations with single tire rule and finally their tire factory Bridgestone win the contract. Not enough there, they even changing the 250cc class into Moto2 4-stroke would dry the rider talents which is previously superior in corner speed without distraction from engine braking on 2-stroke 250cc bikes. With Honda winning the contract being the only engine supplier for Moto2, it deny other makers having fair chance getting benefit from the sport economically and technologically.

I think that in the last year of 990s didnt ilmor have a bike running in the class for a while? and wasnt it a 800? and wasnt dog slow too???

I believe dorn prob looked a the ilmor as a trial run for 800 and saw it was slow and thought " hmm we have sucessfully slowed things down" then bang ducati comeout with a barn stormingly fast 800 that wiped the floor with everyone then development picked up and the 800s got faster and faster. Then all of a shudden stupid tyre rules fuel rules, you name it, it got chucked in the mix. to control something they never thought may happen.

IMO

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ May 21 2009, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The 800cc GP machine is all about balance. And <u>that</u> is why it is so good. It has the right dimensions in every area and nothing is dominant. The introduction was sloppy and the factories responded poorly and then came a worldwide US instigated market meltdown that hasn't helped. But you can hardly fault the model for these things. The 990 was a super superbike not a GP machine and for sure it touched the US heart for excess personally but the switch from 2 strokes was inevitable as 2 strokes just aren't marketable so no factory would support them. The 4 strokes aren't all that complicated geometry wise and yes they do have more parts. This actually makes them better engines since you can separate out the sub functions and work on bettering them individually. It is hard to speculate about the future precisely but this year the racing has been excellent with more contenders than there has been for some while so it is coming together finally. Overall the 800 is the better machine.

Kudos to the guy who started this thread.

Great points as usual GS, but re: highlighted WTF???????

<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/<object width="425" height="344<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0vV9VU2pCTc&hl=en&fs=1</param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true</param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0vV9VU2pCTc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344</embed></object></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/<object width="425" height="344<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0vV9VU2pCTc&hl=en&fs=1</param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true</param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0vV9VU2pCTc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344</embed></object>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>


<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/<object width="425" height="344<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Myc0NWXYZi8&hl=en&fs=1</param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true</param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Myc0NWXYZi8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344</embed></object></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/<object width="425" height="344<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Myc0NWXYZi8&hl=en&fs=1</param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true</param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Myc0NWXYZi8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344</embed></object>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>












i rest my case

wow awesome vids...think i just swallowed my joint by accident

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ May 21 2009, 07:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'><object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/<object width="425" height="344<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0vV9VU2pCTc&hl=en&fs=1</param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true</param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0vV9VU2pCTc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344</embed></object></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/<object width="425" height="344<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0vV9VU2pCTc&hl=en&fs=1</param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true</param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0vV9VU2pCTc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344</embed></object>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>


<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/<object width="425" height="344<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Myc0NWXYZi8&hl=en&fs=1</param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true</param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Myc0NWXYZi8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344</embed></object></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/<object width="425" height="344<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Myc0NWXYZi8&hl=en&fs=1</param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true</param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Myc0NWXYZi8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344</embed></object>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>












i rest my case
Most awesome-est thing ever.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ May 21 2009, 08:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>wow awesome vids...think i just swallowed my joint by accident
Drugs are fun. So were those videos. I'm going to watch them again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ May 21 2009, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Most awesome-est thing ever.


Drugs are fun. So were those videos. I'm going to watch them again.
Yup. Still most awesome-est thing ever.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Apr 18 2009, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Its the torque of the 990 that gives me a boner...its not that the 800s are "slow" cause they're not, they just dont have that PUNCH that only comes from the 990.."No Replacement For Displacement" simple as that...


+1

<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5DJeIfJc2LY</param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5DJeIfJc2LY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>


Just gotta love that sound too

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ May 21 2009, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The 800cc GP machine is all about balance. And <u>that</u> is why it is so good. It has the right dimensions in every area and nothing is dominant. The introduction was sloppy and the factories responded poorly and then came a worldwide US instigated market meltdown that hasn't helped. But you can hardly fault the model for these things. The 990 was a super superbike not a GP machine and for sure it touched the US heart for excess personally but the switch from 2 strokes was inevitable as 2 strokes just aren't marketable so no factory would support them. The 4 strokes aren't all that complicated geometry wise and yes they do have more parts. This actually makes them better engines since you can separate out the sub functions and work on bettering them individually. It is hard to speculate about the future precisely but this year the racing has been excellent with more contenders than there has been for some while so it is coming together finally. Overall the 800 is the better machine.

Kudos to the guy who started this thread.
you swallow jazkats joint too?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 21 2009, 07:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Great points as usual GS, but re: highlighted WTF???????

So the last race wasn't excellent?

Rain
Dry
Bike swaps
Wipeouts
Unexpected finishing order
Mistakes
Perfection
Disorder

Maybe it was just me liking all that stuff. It certainly was no parade from lap two on. This time it made no difference whether they were on 990's or 800's it was entertaining racing IMO.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ May 22 2009, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So the last race wasn't excellent?

Rain
Dry
Bike swaps
Wipeouts
Unexpected finishing order
Mistakes
Perfection
Disorder

Maybe it was just me liking all that stuff. It certainly was no parade from lap two on. This time it made no difference whether they were on 990's or 800's it was entertaining racing IMO.
entertaining racing or entertaining lottery?

IMO that was nature messing around with mans plans and a similar situation would have resulted even if they were on tricycles. i am yet to see the 800s make a viable case for fostering good racing.(and this means the lead group, not mid pack and back)

Like I said before you can't blame the model. Can man actually replicate the great model and ride it through changing track, weather and economic conditions entertainingly and competitively? That is the challenge. There is no easy route to greatness.