If we can club together $3.4 billion, we can buy the commercial rights to MotoGP

What size audiences does MotoGP get in the US ?

I doubt Laguna will every make it back, the local governments and people no longer seem to support the track... and bringing it up to standard will take a massive investment. Sonoma Raceway might actually be a better option to bring up to GP standards, just outside of san francisco, NASCAR still runs there after all. Road America might be an option, being very close to Harley Davidson might help, but it would take significant investment. Most of the other major road racing tracks in the US are quite a ways outside of cities.

Hollywood said:

I doubt Laguna will every make it back, the local governments and people no longer seem to support the track... and bringing it up to standard will take a massive investment. Sonoma Raceway might actually be a better option to bring up to GP standards, just outside of san francisco, NASCAR still runs there after all. Road America might be an option, being very close to Harley Davidson might help, but it would take significant investment. Most of the other major road racing tracks in the US are quite a ways outside of cities.

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Flatrock Motorsports Park, a new road course being built two hours from Nashville, has begun holding talks with MotoGP about bringing the global motorcycle racing series there when it opens next year, according to a person familiar with the matter. The venue is being constructed on 800 acres in Westel, Tenn., near Knoxville, at a cost of $100M. The owners are working with Tilke Engineers & Architects as its architect plus Wright Brothers Construction as its general contractor. Developer Rusty Bittle broke ground on the venue one year ago this week, and on Thursday owners released an updated overhead shot of the progress. The track will be 5.9 miles long with 34 turns, and the grounds will include a mixed-use development. The track says it expects to have a 2.67-mile portion certified by the FIM -- the international motorcycle racing federation -- and the FIA, the global governing body for racing. The FIA is expected to give the track a Grade II certification, allowing it to host all levels of racing except F1, which would need far bigger accommodations nearby to ever bring its series there.

I'd say this is our best bet at another American round.

MdubSTYLIE said:

Flatrock Motorsports Park, a new road course being built two hours from Nashville, has begun holding talks with MotoGP about bringing the global motorcycle racing series there when it opens next year, according to a person familiar with the matter. The venue is being constructed on 800 acres in Westel, Tenn., near Knoxville, at a cost of $100M. The owners are working with Tilke Engineers & Architects as its architect plus Wright Brothers Construction as its general contractor. Developer Rusty Bittle broke ground on the venue one year ago this week, and on Thursday owners released an updated overhead shot of the progress. The track will be 5.9 miles long with 34 turns, and the grounds will include a mixed-use development. The track says it expects to have a 2.67-mile portion certified by the FIM -- the international motorcycle racing federation -- and the FIA, the global governing body for racing. The FIA is expected to give the track a Grade II certification, allowing it to host all levels of racing except F1, which would need far bigger accommodations nearby to ever bring its series there.

I'd say this is our best bet at another American round.

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Yep, I'm STOKED about this track. It's basically Portimao on steroids and is going to be huge country club including apartments with garages for the 1%. For those who don;t know yet, this is the planned layout:




It includes a 30 degree banked turn. Current progress.

One track that is awesome, but would NEVER get approval is Ozarks International Raceway in SW Missouri.




I've raced this track and it has crazy elevation changes. The problem is the barriers are all too close. This is Turn 1 for example.



As always, the camera always deceits on the scale of this off camber drop.

Looking at alternatives. They already have a 'west coast' race at COTA. I think they would want one nearer the east coast but that's just my opinion. For safety, apparently FIA grade 2 is the same as grade 1.

Grade 1 permanent tracks is the USA currently:

COTA
Indianapolis Motor Speedway (Oval)

Grade 2 permanent tracks:

Barber Motorsports Park (Alabama)
IMS Road Course (Indiana)
Lime Rock Park (CT)
Mid Ohio (Ohio)
NOLA Motorsports Park (Louisiana)
Portland Int'l Raceway (Oregon)
Road America (WI)
Road Atlanta (GA)
Sebring Int'l raceway (FL)
Sonoma Raceway (CA)
Virginia Int'l Raceway
Watkins Glen (NY)
Laguna Seca


Of the Grade 2's, I think Barber, IMS, Portland, Road Atlanta, VIR would be best suited in terms of infrastructure etc. Mid Ohio, Road America and Watkins Glen are great tracks but I just don't think they could be made safe enough for GP bikes. Too many close barriers and the China Beach gravel trap at Mid Ohio is like 10ft lower than the track, so a rider going off there would get serious airtime.

MotoGP “not ruling out” joint F1 event under Liberty ownership

This is a horrible idea IMO. Makes it look like MotoGP would be second tier to F1. There is also safety requirements. How do you change barriers and gravel traps between sessions?

Its not just the track itself, its the infrastructure around the track. Can the track and the surrounding area support 100K people for 3 days? Are there enough hotel rooms, are the roads big enough for traffic, are there enough restaurants, enough toilets, hospitals, jail space (stupid .... happens).

COTA works because Austin is just big enough to support it, has just enough hotels, near major roadways, and has an international airport 5 min from the track and down town is only 20 min... Even with all that, I have struggled to find hotel rooms during motogp weekends, stuck in traffic for hours getting in and getting out.

Miller Motorsport Park hosted a WSBK round about 10 years ago or so, fantastic facility, but the area around it could not handle the masses, the nearest place was Salt Lake City, and we wasted about 4 hours each day getting to and from the track.

I guess if Liberty want to expand the US presence, some investment from places with interests in those circuits would need updating.

#22 said:

One very easy way to increase laptime is the tyres. Especially with a single supplier.

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Agree, and tires are the prudent place for Liberty to intervene, if they want to reduce performance.

I actually think Hollywood is correct that Liberty have no immediate plans to mess with the technical regulations. Liberty's parlor trick is to make international motorsport relevant in the United States. They succeeded with F1 in short order, though F1 does not have a history of heavy US involvement, particularly not US drivers. Grand prix motorcycle racing and world superbike have eras of US dominance and a plethora of champions on whom they can rely to promote the sport in the US. This is the fundamental value to Liberty, imo.

The question, I guess, is whether the technical regulations are bad enough to thwart the effectiveness of Liberty's parlor trick in the US. Time will tell.

MdubSTYLIE said:

Flatrock Motorsports Park, a new road course being built two hours from Nashville, has begun holding talks with MotoGP about bringing the global motorcycle racing series there when it opens next year, according to a person familiar with the matter. The venue is being constructed on 800 acres in Westel, Tenn., near Knoxville, at a cost of $100M. The owners are working with Tilke Engineers & Architects as its architect plus Wright Brothers Construction as its general contractor. Developer Rusty Bittle broke ground on the venue one year ago this week, and on Thursday owners released an updated overhead shot of the progress. The track will be 5.9 miles long with 34 turns, and the grounds will include a mixed-use development. The track says it expects to have a 2.67-mile portion certified by the FIM -- the international motorcycle racing federation -- and the FIA, the global governing body for racing. The FIA is expected to give the track a Grade II certification, allowing it to host all levels of racing except F1, which would need far bigger accommodations nearby to ever bring its series there.

I'd say this is our best bet at another American round.

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Flatrock will be amazing if the plans come to full fruition. The track is also right on I-40 so that will help people driving from the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic. The Southeast will need to take circuitous roads through the Appalachians. I don't know much about the soil out there, but hopefully it's better than Central Texas.

The major hurdle that Liberty will need to overcome is the dire situation east of the Appalachians and west of the Rockies in the major population centers. East of the Appalachians, there is nothing suitable for grand prix motorcycle racing. Monticello Motor Club is perhaps the closest, but it's private with no infrastructure and a back straight that would probably never get FIM homologation. West of the Rockies, Laguna Seca is under duress from hostile residents and government. The only other track suitable for hosting MotoGP will reasonable modifications is Miller, but it's been de-platformed since it was purchased by Geely. The Chinese seem content to let the track turn back into dust, rather than be forced into a fire sale.

Maybe Liberty already has a game plan to tackle these issues, but it's a major hurdle.

My 2 Predictions for Liberty & MotoGP:

1. They build their own track, and that track will be in Vegas. The F1 race there worked to an extent, but not everyone liked it. They could build their own track, with a hotel and casino, guarantee themselves F1 & MotoGP and probably pick up NASCAR, Indy Car, and FIA races.

2. More manufactures will get involved, the media foot print that MotoGP creates will be to big to ignore for manufactures not involved. BMW is already taking a serious look at competing, It wouldn't surprise me to see Harley Davidson get involved in some way, and maybe the return of Suzuki and Kawasaki

mylexicon said:

Agree, and tires are the prudent place for Liberty to intervene, if they want to reduce performance.

I actually think Hollywood is correct that Liberty have no immediate plans to mess with the technical regulations. Liberty's parlor trick is to make international motorsport relevant in the United States. They succeeded with F1 in short order, though F1 does not have a history of heavy US involvement, particularly not US drivers. Grand prix motorcycle racing and world superbike have eras of US dominance and a plethora of champions on whom they can rely to promote the sport in the US. This is the fundamental value to Liberty, imo.

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I agree, their interest is the commercial side, not the technical side. They have a history of 500cc US champions to fall back on and who they will no doubt utilise (similar to how COTA did with Kevin Schwantz for a time). Though their treatment of Andretti and their F1 entry seems to think they may not need their US history. They also have Trackhouse Racing now, so gives US fans an instant commodity to rally behind.

mylexicon said:

The question, I guess, is whether the technical regulations are bad enough to thwart the effectiveness of Liberty's parlor trick in the US. Time will tell.

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I suspect that even if that were the case, they can create enough 'fake drama' ala Drive to Survive to mitigate the dull racing caused by tech regs.

mylexicon said:

Flatrock will be amazing if the plans come to full fruition. The track is also right on I-40 so that will help people driving from the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic. The Southeast will need to take circuitous roads through the Appalachians. I don't know much about the soil out there, but hopefully it's better than Central Texas.

The major hurdle that Liberty will need to overcome is the dire situation east of the Appalachians and west of the Rockies in the major population centers. East of the Appalachians, there is nothing suitable for grand prix motorcycle racing. Monticello Motor Club is perhaps the closest, but it's private with no infrastructure and a back straight that would probably never get FIM homologation.

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I'd never heard of Monticello, but I agree. No way will it get homologation. No paddock facilities, and that back straight would absolutely not have enough runoff.

mylexicon said:

West of the Rockies, Laguna Seca is under duress from hostile residents and government. The only other track suitable for hosting MotoGP will reasonable modifications is Miller, but it's been de-platformed since it was purchased by Geely. The Chinese seem content to let the track turn back into dust, rather than be forced into a fire sale.

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I'm very surprised Miller isn't even a grade 2 FIA circuit. A very good choice IMO based on the track alone but again, Like Hollywood said, it;s over 30 mins from Salt Lake with nothing else around.

Hollywood said:

My 2 Predictions for Liberty & MotoGP:

1. They build their own track, and that track will be in Vegas. The F1 race there worked to an extent, but not everyone liked it. They could build their own track, with a hotel and casino, guarantee themselves F1 & MotoGP and probably pick up NASCAR, Indy Car, and FIA races.

2. More manufactures will get involved, the media foot print that MotoGP creates will be to big to ignore for manufactures not involved. BMW is already taking a serious look at competing, It wouldn't surprise me to see Harley Davidson get involved in some way, and maybe the return of Suzuki and Kawasaki

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Interesting takes. I believe Liberty fronts the cost of the F1 race at Vegas, but that is a temporary circuit each year.

I personally don't see either Suzuki or Kawasaki returning anytime soon.

Mid Ohio, not for MotoGp, too far from sufficient hotels etc, but a great facility. One of the best tracks I’ve raced at. A hard one to learn.

#22 said:

Interesting takes. I believe Liberty fronts the cost of the F1 race at Vegas, but that is a temporary circuit each year.

I personally don't see either Suzuki or Kawasaki returning anytime soon.

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The power in Vegas is with the casinos, they are the ones who have the influence to make a street race happen, the house, or houses in this case, always needs to win. The only war to guarantee that a race happens is to control the area where it happens, which is why I think they will eventually build their own track along with a hotel and casino.

Hollywood said:

My 2 Predictions for Liberty & MotoGP:

1. They build their own track, and that track will be in Vegas. The F1 race there worked to an extent, but not everyone liked it. They could build their own track, with a hotel and casino, guarantee themselves F1 & MotoGP and probably pick up NASCAR, Indy Car, and FIA races.

2. More manufactures will get involved, the media foot print that MotoGP creates will be to big to ignore for manufactures not involved. BMW is already taking a serious look at competing, It wouldn't surprise me to see Harley Davidson get involved in some way, and maybe the return of Suzuki and Kawasaki

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Interesting thoughts. Liberty is better suited to media, rather than operating an event venue. Plus, they praise Dorna for their low-debt load. I'm not sure building a race track in Vegas fits the bill; however, they might invest in a circuit, if they get guaranteed money from Vegas to hold major events at the circuit.

Best chance to get US manufacturing involved in MotoGP is Ilmor, imo. It's owned by Penske now, and the race engine design department is in Northampton, UK. It's an Anglo-America BOGO deal. Yet another reason to return to 800cc (not 850cc) and to identify new performance controlling mechanism (like fuel flow limiting), rather than using bore-limiting. If they choose 800cc, fuel flow limiting, and a spec-ECU, MotoGP would already have 6 manufactures with an eligible engine.

#22 said:

I agree, their interest is the commercial side, not the technical side. They have a history of 500cc US champions to fall back on and who they will no doubt utilise (similar to how COTA did with Kevin Schwantz for a time). Though their treatment of Andretti and their F1 entry seems to think they may not need their US history. They also have Trackhouse Racing now, so gives US fans an instant commodity to rally behind.

I suspect that even if that were the case, they can create enough 'fake drama' ala Drive to Survive to mitigate the dull racing caused by tech regs.

I'm very surprised Miller isn't even a grade 2 FIA circuit. A very good choice IMO based on the track alone but again, Like Hollywood said, it;s over 30 mins from Salt Lake with nothing else around.

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You're right that Liberty probably doesn't need the US' history in motorcycle grand prix and superbike, but if they don't leverage this aspect of international motorcycle racing, are they fulfilling their responsibility to shareholders and partners? I guess it depends on how much money and influence the old champs demand. You know King Kenny is already angling for a team. Wayne might demand that Liberty buy MotoAmerica

Regarding Miller, the biggest issue, imo, is the lethal runoff areas. They are plenty big, but if you think the gravel at Portimao is bad! Miller would need a few thousand tons of pea gravel and a lot of heavy equipment. The surface might not be in good condition, either, but the bones are there, and the West Coast will travel, particularly if the race is on a holiday weekend.

In order for Liberty to grow their media brand, they will need at least one more track in the US. Vegas checks all the boxes, and with Liberty involved the track would be guaranteed major races. I dont expect Liberty to do it on their own, they would need to partners, and they may invest through a separate entity, but they would be the ones pushing for it.

Hollywood said:

I dont think they will touch the technical side of the sport so much, but they do need to grow the sport and to do so means they will have to add races. the question is where?

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They could grow the sport by bringing in technical regulations that lead to better racing.
I don't see F1 adding many more races but I certainly don't see MotoGP adding any more. Unlike in F1, MotoGP teams don't have alternating crews. They're pretty much at their maximum right now.

#22 said:

Yep, I'm STOKED about this track. It's basically Portimao on steroids and is going to be huge country club including apartments with garages for the 1%. For those who don;t know yet, this is the planned layout:

View attachment 14689
View attachment 14690

It includes a 30 degree banked turn. Current progress.

View attachment 14691

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The full layout would mean lap times in excess of three minutes. The "GP layout" looks less exciting but I'd certainly take this one over Indy.
A return to Laguna Seca would be a dream but I don't see it happening. Still, it would need less safety upgrades than Road America or Mid-Ohio.
I don't mind adding some races on the American continent actually. I love late night races in America where I'll drink several beers while watching just as much as I love early morning far-eastern races where I'll have several coffees.
Another races I could see them add are Bahrain, Kuwait, Dubai or the new Wonderland the Saudis are building.
For me the question is which races are most likely to be scrapped.
Top of the list is Mugello, unfortunately. They have suffered from bad attendance since Rossi's retirement and despite nearly every track in Italy having a more exciting layout than Misano I can't see them dropping that one instead.
Five races on the Iberian peninsula could also be a thing of the past.
I hope they'll at least keep the season finale there every year. Barcelona is probably the circuit I'd miss the least.
My home track has a contract until 2026 but as always we don't know what will happen after. BMW joining the championship could certainly remove that threat.

JPSLotus said:

My guess is we're going to see the addition or return of certain USA races. I could see Indianapolis maybe coming back.

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From what I've seen, this *seems* to be the plan and with Trackhouse in the paddock, feels like a no brainer. I've only ever been to 2 MotoGP races and my first was Indy 2010. If memory serves, that was the first year of Moto2 and Ben Spies. Anyway, I may catch flack for this but Indy always felt like the armpit of the MotoGP schedule. To me the track didn't compare with the other tracks I saw watching online and safety seemed to be an issue. It's a pity Laguna Seca isn't coming back. Brno needs back on the schedule. Man I love that track.

Also, Liberty's first move is going to be having the riders play a significantly larger role off the bike in the PR department. That's not gonna go over well.

PRS717 said:

From what I've seen, this *seems* to be the plan and with Trackhouse in the paddock, feels like a no brainer. I've only ever been to 2 MotoGP races and my first was Indy 2010. If memory serves, that was the first year of Moto2 and Ben Spies. Anyway, I may catch flack for this but Indy always felt like the armpit of the MotoGP schedule. To me the track didn't compare with the other tracks I saw watching online and safety seemed to be an issue. It's a pity Laguna Seca isn't coming back. Brno needs back on the schedule. Man I love that track.

Also, Liberty's first move is going to be having the riders play a significantly larger role off the bike in the PR department. That's not gonna go over well.

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Always thought Indy was a .... track. Flat and boring as hell. Bring back Brno . . . hell yes. Upgrade Donnington and forget Silverstone, which is always a snore - for me.