2024 silly season!

I understand I am being critical of Zarco. Its because he has flaws as a rider and I really want to see him succeed. He is a slow starter and really needs the bike to be set up well to have good results. Honda cannot offer him those things. He will not be able to set fastest laps on this bike. He will be in the gravel every race just like the riders this year. What I want to see is him make a choice that he will be happy about because he is going to be miserable after the first test on the Honda. I want to see him go give Bautista a run for his money because I think he could be a winner there. He does that and who knows maybe there will be an open seat again in his future in gp. If I was honda of course I'd sign him. But someone should have been steering Zarco away from making this move. I would be critical of any rider signing with Honda to be honest. Except riders with nothing to lose. This is exactly what I said about Mir signing with them last year as well.

MdubSTYLIE said:

You have that backward. Honda is the wrong choice for Zarco. He should know better than to go there. He forgot about what it was like at KTM which is understandable since it lasted weeks. He has no chance of being promoted to the factory bike. If they turn it around and thats a strong if Marq and/or Mir will stay. If they don't stay than Repsol will be able to acquire talent from moto2 Abolino for example. He would have to win and win often to get promoted. He'd have to magically be better than the factory riders. On the more realistic side and its horrible, the bike sucks Zarco is unhappy he is stuck for two years unless they fire him. In two years Zarco will be 35 and retired. No one will sign him after this. His options will be gone. So who should Honda sign? Someone young desperate for an opportunity. Aron Canet for example. But again its not that honda shouldn't sign Zarco its that Zarco should know better than to sign with Honda. There is no scenario in which this pays off.

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It seems like....to me anyway....Zarco wants to hang on in MotoGP as long as he can, however he can and I get that but this makes me wonder. Is Bautista happier being king in WSBK or would he trade that to be mid pack in MotoGP? I realize Bautista is on the best bike and I don't know all the details of what, if anything, Ducati may have offered Zarco in terms of WSBK but it seems to me Zarco on the factory Panigale would be better than Bassani. I like Bassani but he's inconsistent. Zarco would have a chance to be top dog. I dunno, it's early and I'm still on my first cup of coffee.

PRS717 said:

It seems like....to me anyway....Zarco wants to hang on in MotoGP as long as he can, however he can and I get that but this makes me wonder. Is Bautista happier being king in WSBK or would he trade that to be mid pack in MotoGP? I realize Bautista is on the best bike and I don't know all the details of what, if anything, Ducati may have offered Zarco in terms of WSBK but it seems to me Zarco on the factory Panigale would be better than Bassani. I like Bassani but he's inconsistent. Zarco would have a chance to be top dog. I dunno, it's early and I'm still on my first cup of coffee.

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Exactly! What we know about Zarco last time he was on an inferior bike is that he quit. The KTM wasn't nearly as bad as the current Honda. He is going to be absolutely miserable on the honda. Zarco is not the rider Marquez, Rins. and Mir are. He is on the best bike on the grid and can't beat the others on it. He will be the worst rider on a Honda.

MdubSTYLIE said:

Exactly! What we know about Zarco last time he was on an inferior bike is that he quit. The KTM wasn't nearly as bad as the current Honda. He is going to be absolutely miserable on the honda. Zarco is not the rider Marquez, Rins. and Mir are. He is on the best bike on the grid and can't beat the others on it. He will be the worst rider on a Honda.

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Agreed. I guess we were saying the same thing but our last posts crossed in the ether. Presently, Honda is career suicide...figuratively and almost literally. I agree with you there is no upside for Zarco at Honda. He's just a warm body to collect data but how useful would that even be? Heck, Marc is merely a data collector at this point.

MdubSTYLIE said:

You have that backward. Honda is the wrong choice for Zarco. He should know better than to go there. He forgot about what it was like at KTM which is understandable since it lasted weeks. He has no chance of being promoted to the factory bike. If they turn it around and thats a strong if Marq and/or Mir will stay. If they don't stay than Repsol will be able to acquire talent from moto2 Abolino for example. He would have to win and win often to get promoted. He'd have to magically be better than the factory riders. On the more realistic side and its horrible, the bike sucks Zarco is unhappy he is stuck for two years unless they fire him. In two years Zarco will be 35 and retired. No one will sign him after this. His options will be gone. So who should Honda sign? Someone young desperate for an opportunity. Aron Canet for example. But again its not that honda shouldn't sign Zarco its that Zarco should know better than to sign with Honda. There is no scenario in which this pays off.

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What is the point of Honda signing Canet?
They are trying to develop the bike and need somebody with experience to give them feedback in order to improve it.
I do not see a rider with no experience on a motoGP machine being able to give relevant feedback like somebody with experience should be able to do.

With respect to Zarco doing what is best for him, he made the choice. He prefers to stay in motoGP. He now has an extra year to do that.
I do not see Zarco as being without insight. He is the one riding motoGP unlike us armchair critics. I expect he has a fair idea of what he is getting into and has determined it is right for him. He is better placed to know that than us.

Bezzecchi confirmed to stay at VR46 for 2024. Now what happens at Pramac? Marini?

PRS717 said:

Bezzecchi confirmed to stay at VR46 for 2024. Now what happens at Pramac? Marini?

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Apparently, Morbidelli is going to Pramac. Why, I do not know....

warthog1 said:

What is the point of Honda signing Canet?
They are trying to develop the bike and need somebody with experience to give them feedback in order to improve it.
I do not see a rider with no experience on a motoGP machine being able to give relevant feedback like somebody with experience should be able to do.

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Thats the type of rider I would suspect has nothing to lose by joining Honda like Ionone. But IMO Zarco had better options for his career. Like I said from honda's point of view I get the signing but not from Zarco's. He hasn't proven to be the type of rider that can help with relevant feedback his track record is actually the opposite. I would actually sign Ionone over him. He has shown he can get the best out of a ...... bike so be it that was years ago. Also when it comes to bike development he is third in the pecking order possibly fourth as the Honda token Japanese rider is more important to them than LCR. Lets not forget the time Honda developed a miniture bike for Dani over the rider who won the championship. So they don't need another feedback rider, they have Marq and Mir.

warthog1 said:

With respect to Zarco doing what is best for him, he made the choice. He prefers to stay in motoGP. He now has an extra year to do that.
I do not see Zarco as being without insight. He is the one riding motoGP unlike us armchair critics. I expect he has a fair idea of what he is getting into and has determined it is right for him. He is better placed to know that than us.

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*Thinks. What he thinks is best for him, and he now has an extra two years in motogp unless he is fired or quits again. He is older and needs to be smart about his choices. No one can argue this is the most dangerous choice for his career. Obviously he wants to be in gp over wsbk but I am quite sure he will regret that. Yes we are armchair critics and he is the one to ride it. I would love to be wrong but I know I am not. If I am I'll be very happy for Zarco. If the bike is better than Marc and Mir will be better too leaving Zarco exactly where he is until and up and coming moto2 rider takes his spot. This is a bad choice but his only choice if he wanted to stay in gp. So I get it. I am just here to be an armchair critic because thats what forums are for. I wish him the best. As I wished Mir and Rins the best too. I said Rins would do better on the Honda then Mir and I was right. But I had no idea how bad it would be for the both of them. This time I am going into this with my eyes wide open which is something I don't think Zarco is doing.

I am unconvinced Marc is very good at providing developmental feedback.
What he is good at is forcing a motorcycle to do things it shouldn't be able to. He can make it do .... others can't and ride around problems others can't.
The bike has basically gotten worse compared to other machinery whilst he has been there. It is now at the level he can't push it to make up the difference. Ride height and aero has made that so imo.

Zarco is saying his mindset has changed since the KTM days. We will see. He does have experience on many different machines and importantly, like Miller this year, will be coming from the dominant bike. He will, quickly see what it can't do and be able to provide feedback on what the Duke does do.

I think Zarco is in a far better to position to decide what is right for him than you or I. He is in the paddock and competing at that level. He knows what he is going to be paid and who he will be working with. He also knows he is reaching the end of his career in motoGP and that motoGP is where he wants to be until then.

I agree it is going to be hard but I don't think he is stupid and is unaware of this.
We will see how it pans out. It may go to ...., but I think he is far better placed to make a call on his career choices than any of us on here.

warthog1 said:

I am unconvinced Marc is very good at providing developmental feedback.
What he is good at is forcing a motorcycle to do things it shouldn't be able to. He can make it do .... others can't and ride around problems others can't.
The bike has basically gotten worse compared to other machinery whilst he has been there. It is now at the level he can't push it to make up the difference. Ride height and aero has made that so imo.

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Agreed. Just like Stoner in Ducati 08-10. The bike got progressively worse and like Marc, because he was winning on it, Ducati reportedly said 'What's the problem?'

warthog1 said:

Zarco is saying his mindset has changed since the KTM days. We will see. He does have experience on many different machines and importantly, like Miller this year, will be coming from the dominant bike. He will, quickly see what it can't do and be able to provide feedback on what the Duke does do.

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Like any sport, Ducati is the dominant team at present, so other teams scramble to aquire personnel or riders from those teams in the hope their Ducati experience will help.

warthog1 said:

I am unconvinced Marc is very good at providing developmental feedback.
What he is good at is forcing a motorcycle to do things it shouldn't be able to. He can make it do .... others can't and ride around problems others can't.
The bike has basically gotten worse compared to other machinery whilst he has been there. It is now at the level he can't push it to make up the difference. Ride height and aero has made that so imo.

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I think the engineers are in a far better to position to decide that than you and I. I've been saying this for years but the fact of the matter is, are you going to develop a bike around an 8 time champion a 1 time champion or a 0 time champion on a costumer bike?

warthog1 said:

Zarco is saying his mindset has changed since the KTM days. We will see. He does have experience on many different machines and importantly, like Miller this year, will be coming from the dominant bike. He will, quickly see what it can't do and be able to provide feedback on what the Duke does do.

I think Zarco is in a far better to position to decide what is right for him than you or I. He is in the paddock and competing at that level. He knows what he is going to be paid and who he will be working with. He also knows he is reaching the end of his career in motoGP and that motoGP is where he wants to be until then.

I agree it is going to be hard but I don't think he is stupid and is unaware of this.
We will see how it pans out. It may go to ...., but I think he is far better placed to make a call on his career choices than any of us on here.

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I mean that goes without saying, but this is a motogp forum and a thread about where riders are going next year. We could either talk about that or what he had for breakfast this morning. I had avocado toast, yogurt, and a naked smoothie. I digress. I'm not saying anything but the facts. The facts are 1. The honda is not only hard but impossible to ride at a competitive pace without it trying to kill you. 2. They have nothing in the pipeline to improve that for next season. 3. He is in his mid thirties and unfortunately his option are only going to get smaller. Factory Honda will never be an option. 4. He is third or most likely fourth in the developmental pecking order he will have zero to little input into the bike.

So if he wants to coast around in last just to stay in gp, good for him. If he wants to break every bone in his body to attempt to break the top 10, that's his propagative.

MdubSTYLIE said:

I think the engineers are in a far better to position to decide that than you and I. I've been saying this for years but the fact of the matter is, are you going to develop a bike around an 8 time champion a 1 time champion or a 0 time champion on a costumer bike?




I mean that goes without saying, but this is a motogp forum and a thread about where riders are going next year. We could either talk about that or what he had for breakfast this morning. I had avocado toast, yogurt, and a naked smoothie. I digress. I'm not saying anything but the facts. The facts are 1. The honda is not only hard but impossible to ride at a competitive pace without it trying to kill you. 2. They have nothing in the pipeline to improve that for next season. 3. He is in his mid thirties and unfortunately his option are only going to get smaller. Factory Honda will never be an option. 4. He is third or most likely fourth in the developmental pecking order he will have zero to little input into the bike.

So if he wants to coast around in last just to stay in gp, good for him. If he wants to break every bone in his body to attempt to break the top 10, that's his propagative.

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Sure Marc is a better rider. Best I've seen. He has been able to ride around problems others can't. That is his strength.
However now he can't. Nobody can. Is he better at providing feedback and on how to improve the bike rather than riding around a problem? It is probable that Honda and the engineers have found not.


Yeah it is a MotoaGP forum. Just because it is, an argument that a rider is a fool for taking up an offer to stay in MotoGP because the bike isn't good enough and we know better, doesn't float.
Zarco knows what he is being paid, what the offer is and how hard the Honda looks to be, far better than us. He is riding beside it.
He also knows he ain't going to be MotoGP world champ.
He does not want to go to Wsbk. Good for him.
I do not see him "breaking every bone in his body". He ain't the sort of bloke who pushes the bike until it crashes. 2 more years where he wants to be at the manufacturer who has won more than any other. Good luck to him.

Oats, Lineed meal and dates with Soy for breakfast here. 100k on the gravel bike shortly. Good fuel for longer efforts

warthog1 said:

Sure Marc is a better rider. Best I've seen. He has been able to ride around problems others can't. That is his strength.
However now he can't. Nobody can. Is he better at providing feedback and on how to improve the bike rather than riding around a problem? It is probable that Honda and the engineers have found not.


Yeah it is a MotoaGP forum. Just because it is, an argument that a rider is a fool for taking up an offer to stay in MotoGP because the bike isn't good enough and we know better, doesn't float.
Zarco knows what he is being paid, what the offer is and how hard the Honda looks to be, far better than us. He is riding beside it.
He also knows he ain't going to be MotoGP world champ.
He does not want to go to Wsbk. Good for him.
I do not see him "breaking every bone in his body". He ain't the sort of bloke who pushes the bike until it crashes. 2 more years where he wants to be at the manufacturer who has won more than any other. Good luck to him.

Oats, Lineed meal and dates with Soy for breakfast here. 100k on the gravel bike shortly. Good fuel for longer efforts

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I didn't find Mir to be much of a crasher either. Everything I am saying is not a diss on Zarco is a .... you to honda for creating the worst bike in the history of motogp.
I also ride gravel and mtb. I've ridden a century only twice. So be it in miles not km, but good on you!

MdubSTYLIE said:

I didn't find Mir to be much of a crasher either. Everything I am saying is not a diss on Zarco is a .... you to honda for creating the worst bike in the history of motogp.
I also ride gravel and mtb. I've ridden a century only twice. So be it in miles not km, but good on you!

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Fair enough mate
I agree it ain't the best bike to be on.
Hopefully he gets some cash to live on for a while after his career is over and doesn't crash the POS too much.

Speaking of getting to stay on for another year, Joe Roberts gets to hang in Moto2, going back to American Racing. Joe should probably thank his lucky stars for this chance.

Taka gets to stay at LCR "to 99.9%". I guess the other 0.1% is him getting promoted to Repsol.

Saffa said:

Apparently, Morbidelli is going to Pramac. Why, I do not know....

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If you're Pramac and you just paid idk how many millions to get a 24-spec Ducati, why on earth would you put Franco on it? They can't be serious about that.

I think there is something to the argument that the Honda has gone to .... with Marc as the top rider. For some of the same reasons as Stoner/Ducati as has been pointed out.

Yes, engineers can dream stuff up. But they don’t ride the bike at speed. One of the skills of a ”great” rider is to be aware of the physics of the machine in motion and be able to translate that back to engineers and help the team come up with solutions to whatever the problem of the moment is.

Not every rider has this skill. Two of the best ever, Hailwood and Marquez, didn’t have it. Marquez has been at Honda long enough, without a competitive teammate, for everybody to see the results decline.

JFM01 said:

If you're Pramac and you just paid idk how many millions to get a 24-spec Ducati, why on earth would you put Franco on it? They can't be serious about that.

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I personally think Valentino Rossi is playing a big part in that......

It annoys me though that it seems many riders getting kicked out of teams for lack of performance are hunting a Ducati as some sort of magical redemption. Being fired from a factory Yamaha team shouldn't get you a near factory spec Ducati.

I think Zarco is a complicated thinking man. He had a chance to go to Honda as a factory rider when he was in his prime and he was hot property. Now he is going to Honda as an over the hill rider on a customer bike. I still like him and wish him well. I hope he gets to win a GP. But my hope is fading.

He just doesn’t have that “win” factor going that makes a rider push the little extra at the right time and stay upright to get that win like MM or even Pecco. He’ll join the likes of Dovi, Kocsinski, Biaggi etc. who were great in 250 or Moto2 and just couldn’t make the big bike work for them.

History is not kind to riders or athletes in general that stayed in the junior class too long. After you win the junior championship once, it’s time to step up to the big leagues. Being the king of the small pool is great as a stepping stone but if you make a career out of it like Biaggi and Zarco that’s as far as you’ll get.