2022 MotoGp Mandalika Circuit INDONESIA

michaelm · Mar 20, 2022

Bern1 said:
Everybody had access to the same tires.

I get your point about how much more of this MM can take.

The point I would raise again is that, as talented as MM is as a rider, his talent for communicating to Honda and its’ engineers what he needs from the bike seems to be lacking.

To waste the once in a generation talent MM has in a perpetual crash fest instead of figuring out how to make the bike more rideable, no matter the iteration or year, seems to be a huge mistake that both Marquez and Honda share the responsibility for.

Sure, wasn’t unfair, but still think the whole thing is a tire lottery. Not much need to have sympathy for HRC in general perhaps, but if they have gone to all the trouble of developing a bike to suit the control ECU and control tire understandable to be a little peeved if they have to run on a 4 year old tire which might have worked better on their old bike, particularly given they were good in testing at the circuit on the current tire.

Doesn’t seem to be much evidence MM can steer Honda in the right direction, which Pedrosa and Stoner did seem to be able to do. Looks like Darth Puig’s decision to fire Pedrosa from Honda probably to settle old scores has worked out well for KTM.

warthog1 · Mar 20, 2022

michaelm said:
Sure, wasn’t unfair, but still think the whole thing is a tire lottery. Not much need to have sympathy for HRC in general perhaps, but if they have gone to all the trouble of developing a bike to suit the control ECU and control tire understandable to be a little peeved if they have to run on a 4 year old tire which might have worked better on their old bike, particularly given they were good in testing at the circuit on the current tire.

Doesn’t seem to be much evidence MM can steer Honda in the right direction, which Pedrosa and Stoner did seem to be able to do. Looks like Darth Puig’s decision to fire Pedrosa from Honda probably to settle old scores has worked out well for KTM.

MM has 6 titles on the open class Honda.
He appears to be able to make it work for him, not necessarily others, but perhaps that ability to hold the front end up aint there like it was.
That body isn't going to hold up to so much punishment indefinitely.

I agree Pedrosa seemed more able to inform development toward a more balanced bike, as such a small and light rider would need.
They should have kept him for his development skills.

Bern1 · Mar 20, 2022

The answer to the tire issue is to allow each team to contract with whichever supplier they wish.

It’s a prototype class after all.

Bern1 · Mar 20, 2022

The top class is not the place for a “level playing field.”

This ain’t Moto 2.

michaelm · Mar 20, 2022

Bern1 said:
The answer to the tire issue is to allow each team to contract with whichever supplier they wish.

It’s a prototype class after all.

I think part of the tire thing is that they are now I believe 'free". Iirc when the tire war was on Dorna had to subsidise tires for the satellite teams.

I am more a fan of one of Honda's current riders and several of their previous riders than I am of Honda per se, but as I said it must be frustrating to spend possibly tens of millions on developing a bike and have it come to nothing at a circuit because your bike is only suited to the tire for which it was developed rather than one from 4 years ago; again iirc MM did quite well in 2018 on the 2018 Honda using the tires with the 2018 carcass. Something similar to this has happened before at PI when that circuit had been re-surfaced.

Bern1 · Mar 20, 2022

It appears to be a case of”bad luck” that the tire at this race did not suit the Honda.

Hopefully they can use the “new” tires at races that are not held in tropical temperatures and conditions.

warthog1 · Mar 20, 2022

Honda and their riders are saying the bike was developed around the new tyre.
At the test it appeared to work with the new tyre.
That wasn't by luck it would appear, but by design.
To have that thrown out the window would be annoying.
As long as Marc isn't injured it would appear it hasn't cost them alot in terms of points but I can understand them being unhappy.

Csorrenti · Mar 20, 2022

michaelm said:
Surely he must be close to considering that 6/8 titles is a sufficient number.

I've said it before and I'm sorry to all the MM fans but.....He will not win another championship again since the incident with his arm.

Barbedwirebikerr · Mar 20, 2022

JPSLotus said:
It's going to be interesting to see what direction he goes in. This is not sustainable and it appears this might be another Honda that needs to be overridden to get anything out of it.

I'd prefer to see him hang it up rather than rack up these kinds of crashes.

The race itself wasn't much I thought. Miguel did a fantastic job of getting into the lead and never looking back. Well deserved victory. Hope we get a dry race here next year.

Watching many of the riders, in fp and qp it looked like the rear was overpowering/pushing the front tyre to much.

Barbedwirebikerr · Mar 20, 2022

MichaelBolton said:
Michelin reverted the carcass to that of a few years ago for this circuit for some reason and the new Honda is designed with the new tyres in mind. Pol complained that the bike doesn't work with old tyres. Let's wait some more rounds to affirm it's unrideable.

This tyre construction should be for this race only from what I gathered.

Barbedwirebikerr · Mar 20, 2022

Bern1 said:
Everybody had access to the same tires.

I get your point about how much more of this MM can take.

The point I would raise again is that, as talented as MM is as a rider, his talent for communicating to Honda and its’ engineers what he needs from the bike seems to be lacking.

To waste the once in a generation talent MM has in a perpetual crash fest instead of figuring out how to make the bike more rideable, no matter the iteration or year, seems to be a huge mistake that both Marquez and Honda share the responsibility for.

He hardly had input in this bike. It will improve. As will Marc, hopefully.

Barbedwirebikerr · Mar 20, 2022

Just watch d the race. Impressive rides by a number of pilots. Fabio, zarco, Oliveira, d binder, jack backing off before crashing.

Also just seen Marquez warm up high side. .... me. He cannot keep taking such punishment. That was massive. Maybe he won't get 9 & 10.

Barbedwirebikerr · Mar 21, 2022

What was with miller and Fabio post race? Coverage was brief but looked like miller not happy with something?

Havey · Mar 21, 2022

Could not help noticing Jack's new pit crew member.

JPSLotus · Mar 21, 2022

Barbedwirebikerr said:
Just watch d the race. Impressive rides by a number of pilots. Fabio, zarco, Oliveira, d binder, jack backing off before crashing.

Also just seen Marquez warm up high side. .... me. He cannot keep taking such punishment. That was massive. Maybe he won't get 9 & 10.

I honestly am starting to doubt he is going to win anymore premier class titles.

Having to sit out the race isn't a good sign since that's a haul of points he missed out on.

Anything is possible of course, but given no other team is having these issues, I don't think it bodes well for Honda. If they had kept Pedrosa for testing, I wonder where they would be right now. MM's feedback doesn't seem to be of the sort that will lead to better developed bikes, but I don't know if this is a product of his ability to ride around problems, or if it is HRC just doing their own thing regardless of rider feedback.

Barbedwirebikerr · Mar 21, 2022

JPSLotus said:
I honestly am starting to doubt he is going to win anymore premier class titles.

Having to sit out the race isn't a good sign since that's a haul of points he missed out on.

Anything is possible of course, but given no other team is having these issues, I don't think it bodes well for Honda. If they had kept Pedrosa for testing, I wonder where they would be right now. MM's feedback doesn't seem to be of the sort that will lead to better developed bikes, but I don't know if this is a product of his ability to ride around problems, or if it is HRC just doing their own thing regardless of rider feedback.

Wait until we hit Europe. I'm not writing off honda, particularly Pol on this new version. The tyre, like the track is an anomaly. Marc will win races, but if he can't temper himself is not a challenger. my bet is Pol is consistent around top 5.

JPSLotus · Mar 21, 2022

Barbedwirebikerr said:
Wait until we hit Europe. I'm not writing off honda, particularly Pol on this new version. The tyre, like the track is an anomaly. Marc will win races, but if he can't temper himself is not a challenger. my bet is Pol is consistent around top 5.

Argentina is next and it's a track MM has gone around pretty decently at in bygone seasons. This will be an interesting test for the bike and whether it's got the goods to challenge or not.

Bern1 · Mar 21, 2022

I think we are seeing the old Marc. Certainly as far as the daring. As far as the ability to completely control the bike in the extreme situations I’m not so sure. It’s possible he has lost a step. Then again he hasn’t raced in quite a while, longer than the others. It’s feasible that he just needs more time to get back to his old self. However time is not on his side.

I enjoyed the era of the aliens, with just a handful of bikes and riders in the running for the win and podium.

I must admit that I am enjoying this era even more. It’s refreshing to see so many new riders and bikes that are competitive.

Keshav · Mar 21, 2022

Mick D said:
Awesome race today by Somkiat Chandra! Led the race from start to finish. Wilairot had a couple of podiums, but this is the first ever WIN by a Thai rider in a championship race! Looking forward to seeing if he can live up to this win and his strong pre-season performance.

Very impressive win. I can’t help wondering, if he’d have been able to maintain that big cushion if he had to make the tire last for a full 25 laps. There was a lot of argy-bargy going on behind him which really slowed them all down.
I am in any event really happy for all my friends from that part of the world. All the Malaysian guys who used to work for my store or no doubt still celebrating. It really means a lot to them.

warthog1 · Mar 21, 2022

Bern1 said:
I think we are seeing the old Marc. Certainly as far as the daring. As far as the ability to completely control the bike in the extreme situations I’m not so sure. It’s possible he has lost a step. Then again he hasn’t raced in quite a while, longer than the others. It’s feasible that he just needs more time to get back to his old self. However time is not on his side.

I enjoyed the era of the aliens, with just a handful of bikes and riders in the running for the win and podium.

I must admit that I am enjoying this era even more. It’s refreshing to see so many new riders and bikes that are competitive.

Well said.
I really enjoyed watching Marc dominate. Watching him slide and hold the front of a 280+ hp 160 kg motorcycle was jaw dropping.
I am unsure he is going to be able to do that now and in any case pushing the bike so far over the limit lead to many crashes. The body can take only so much. His is getting older and has been absolutely thumped already.
In any case I have never seen such ability and have loved watching it displayed.
Also loved him shrugging off the Rossi mind games and fan abuse to still dominate. A great big public F you to him and his fans [emoji38]

Yeah the field is do deep and strong now, both bikes and riders. It is so close.
His ability to slide and hold speed on a bike with worn tyres prob isn't there as much and there are more with the ability to do similar.

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