2019 - Austrian - myWorld Motorrad Grand Prix von Österreich

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michaelm said:
Sure, but neither he nor we will ever know whether he could have preserved a soft tyre as well as Dovi did if that is the tyre he referred to.

You just have to give it to Dovi this race. On the commentary they were saying previous weaknesses of the Honda on this circuit have been improved, and it was hardly MM against a pack of Ducatis on what has been a Ducati circuit.
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I think that is partially down Miller throwing it down the road and Petrucci being Petrucci. It was hardly a Dovi vs Honda fight either.
I understand we won't ever know and I wasn't saying he would've won if he chose what was in his opinion the right tyre. I was replying to Kesh saying that he thinks Marquez was hiding his disappointment well. From the interview immediately after the race Marquez seemed happy with his race because he believes he made the wrong tyre choice and was struggling with grip but was still able to fight Dovi until the last corner.
 
michaelm said:
Sure, but neither he nor we will ever know whether he could have preserved a soft tyre as well as Dovi did if that is the tyre he referred to.

You just have to give it to Dovi this race. On the commentary they were saying previous weaknesses of the Honda on this circuit have been improved, and it was hardly MM against a pack of Ducatis on what has been a Ducati circuit.
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Exactly.

A lot of people are too easily dismissive of riders who don't win a championship. But Dovi has given us so many great battles in the last few years. This one was extra satisfying because it was in the dry, Ducati track or no.

In the past people talked of how Rossi and Lorenzo, later Stoner raised the bar and few would disagree that Marquez has done so - but by a wider margin. Well into the coming seasons, Marquez will be the yardstick by which other riders will be measured, and of those who don't win championships during his best years, Dovi will be remembered as the guy who most frequently beat Marquez and also the rider who when not atop the podium, was Marquez's closest competitor. He's a contender in the very best sense of the word.
 
I don't think it's an honest way thinking right after today that a master, but isolated win by Dovi, can now make him fully respectable. A single race cannot change facts. For sure on this race, he gave one thing more than he has given, he himself admitted on the interview in parc fermé that he wasn't rational on that moment and even him got surprised by what he had just managed to do. So the Dovi of today is a world champion, period. But the reality is that he is not able to repeat this version of himself the necessary times in a year in order to clinch the title.

I don't think he can win the title on a Ducati that can turn better. Certainly I do believe Ducati needs a bike that turns better, but won't be Dovizioso who will win a title with that. In fact, I believe he would do even worse than now because the bike would lost some of its characteristics that Dovi capitalizes the most with his style. Furthermore, both Lorenzo and Iannone have managed to make this bike turn faster than Dovi, which means he has room to improve in this respect, but can not do it because he would lost his favorite advantages. Today it became clear that he does not need a better bike, he just need a better himself. He won over MM with no technical advantage, which means the variable lacking in this equation is courage.

The truth is that Dovi is a coward semi-champion hidden behind his rational thinking. Not even Amadeo Maffei could turned out the thing. He will never be champion because he lacks that last step. And I'm not surprised by his today performance just after the shadow of Lorenzo projected on his shoulders.
 
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gui22a said:
I don't think it's an honest way thinking right after today that a master, but isolated win by Dovi, can now make him fully respectable. A single race cannot change facts. For sure on this race, he gave one thing more than he has given, he himself admitted on the interview in parc fermé that he wasn't rational on that moment and even him got surprised by what he had just managed to do. So the Dovi of today is a world champion, period. But the reality is that he is not able to repeat this version of himself the necessary times in a year in order to clinch the title.

I don't think he can win the title on a Ducati that can turn better. Certainly I do believe Ducati needs a bike that turns better, but won't be Dovizioso who will win a title with that. In fact, I believe he would do even worse than now because the bike would lost some of its characteristics that Dovi capitalizes the most with his style. Furthermore, both Lorenzo and Iannone have managed to make this bike turn faster than Dovi, which means he has room to improve in this respect, but can not do it because he would lost his favorite advantages. Today it became clear that he does not need a better bike, he just need a better himself. He won over MM with no technical advantage, which means the variable lacking in this equation is courage.

The truth is that Dovi is a coward semi-champion hidden behind his rational thinking. Not even Amadeo Maffei could turned out the thing. He will never be champion because he lacks that last step. And I'm not surprised by his today performance just after the shadow of Lorenzo projected on his shoulders.
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I really do try to reply to stuff like this in non-emotional chilled-out kinda way, but this is utter horseshit. You paint the picture as if this was his only win ever, or only win against Marquez. Not even close to reality dude.

.... Iaanone. He was a flash in the pan who crashed more than any other Ducati rider. Lorenzo won a handful of races on the Ducati and ran off with his tail between his legs like a little ...... Dovi has stayed in there at Ducati through thick and thin and won many races against Marquez both in the rain and in the dry.

And the business about Dovi not winning championships = Dovi is a coward, is more horseshit. By your reckoning the entire field of racers other than Lorenzo who won zero races in 2017 and two in 2018, and Rossi who won a grand total of 3 races since 2016 - are huge ....... and abject losers.

Marquez doesn't beat Dovi because he's more brave. He beats him because he's more talented. Read interviews with world champions and they all say the same thing in so many words: It's not about how big your balls are; it's about how well you calculate the track and your ability to beat it. The fact that Dovi gets beaten by a better rider is nothing to be ashamed of. It happens.

The two best riders were in 1st and 2nd today - followed by a bunch of Yamahas with the other factory Hondas and Ducatis way the .... back, with Rins on the underpowered Suzuki ahead of all the other factory Ducs and Hondas.

In case you haven't sussed it out yet; I'm a Dovi fan.:clapping:
 
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p4p1 said:
Great race, Dovi's move at the end was special.
Marquez chose the wrong tyre which was probably great for us the viewers.
Fabio was just incredible. I think he is a chance to finish as the top Yamaha
Petrucci was embarrassing, WTF is he doing in 9th at Austria.

There's nothing wrong with that Yamaha. It's been on the podium nearly every race this year and performed at what most would have expected would be their worst track.
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Did you not see Dovi & Marc fly right by Quartararo as though he was on a Moto2 bike? The Yamaha is severely down on acceleration and speed and there's nothing the riders can do to overcome that disadvantage. They're trying to make it up by using more corner speed, but the M1 doesn't have a corner speed advantage that's as huge as the RCV & GP19's power advantage.
 
Does this also explain why Quartararo was the best Yamaha with his reduced horsepower M1?
 
Segfault said:
Does this also explain why Quartararo was the best Yamaha with his reduced horsepower M1?
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I don't know, did you read anything comparing Quartararo's M1 to the factory M1s? Share what you read that provides an explanation. I would simply assume Quarataro did a better job than the other M1 riders today, that does nothing to change the fact that all the Yamaha's are down on power.
 
Segfault said:
Does this also explain why Quartararo was the best Yamaha with his reduced horsepower M1?
Click to expand...

It's down to one (or all three) likely explanations those being:

1. More natural talent than the other Yamaha riders
2. Last year's chassis is better than the 2019 iteration (or it just suits him)
3. The guys in Quatarro's garage have figured out some little out-of-the box trick that nobody has thought of; this 3rd possibility which has to have occurred to the crew in the factory garage, would no doubt drive them mad.

I think a lot of it is down to Rossi's riding as well as he can at his age (and that ain't bad at all) and Vinales has lost a great deal of confidence in himself.
 
Keshav said:
I really do try to reply to stuff like this in non-emotional chilled-out kinda way, but this is utter horseshit. You paint the picture as if this was his only win ever, or only win against Marquez. Not even close to reality dude.

.... Iaanone. He was a flash in the pan who crashed more than any other Ducati rider. Lorenzo won a handful of races on the Ducati and ran off with his tail between his legs like a little ...... Dovi has stayed in there at Ducati through thick and thin and won many races against Marquez both in the rain and in the dry.

And the business about Dovi not winning championships = Dovi is a coward, is more horseshit. By your reckoning the entire field of racers other than Lorenzo who won zero races in 2017 and two in 2018, and Rossi who won a grand total of 3 races since 2016 - are huge ....... and abject losers.

Marquez doesn't beat Dovi because he's more brave. He beats him because he's more talented. Read interviews with world champions and they all say the same thing in so many words: It's not about how big your balls are; it's about how well you calculate the track and your ability to beat it. The fact that Dovi gets beaten by a better rider is nothing to be ashamed of. It happens.

The two best riders were in 1st and 2nd today - followed by a bunch of Yamahas with the other factory Hondas and Ducatis way the .... back, with Rins on the underpowered Suzuki ahead of all the other factory Ducs and Hondas.

In case you haven't sussed it out yet; I'm a Dovi fan.:clapping:
Click to expand...
Of course Dovi is no coward, he has stuck to it through thick and thin better than almost anyone in premier class history. He is Randy Mamola basically, perhaps with an occasional touch of Kevin Schwantz, which means he isn’t Wayne Rainey but is not too shabby. He now has 14 wins, to 9 by Loris Capirossi for instance. Hard to put him ahead of the likes of Pedrosa however who I think has 29 or 30 wins and was capable of totally smoking some of the best in history on his day.
 
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If dovi can ride like this, he can for sure take it to marc, even tho the gap is huge.
 
moto vudu said:
Did you not see Dovi & Marc fly right by Quartararo as though he was on a Moto2 bike? The Yamaha is severely down on acceleration and speed and there's nothing the riders can do to overcome that disadvantage. They're trying to make it up by using more corner speed, but the M1 doesn't have a corner speed advantage that's as huge as the RCV & GP19's power advantage.
Click to expand...

And straight-line speed is risk-free time.
 
And the suzuki who used to be the slowest is faster than the yamaha. Nothing the riders can do much about. Yama have major issues and can only be fixed thru the factory and testing.
 
Keshav said:
It's down to one (or all three) likely explanations those being:

1. More natural talent than the other Yamaha riders
2. Last year's chassis is better than the 2019 iteration (or it just suits him)
3. The guys in Quatarro's garage have figured out some little out-of-the box trick that nobody has thought of; this 3rd possibility which has to have occurred to the crew in the factory garage, would no doubt drive them mad.

I think a lot of it is down to Rossi's riding as well as he can at his age (and that ain't bad at all) and Vinales has lost a great deal of confidence in himself.
Click to expand...

I heard on the telecast last race, they were talking to Petronas boss; that Quartaro actually has one of JLo's chassis.


Also mentioned on kropo's site.

From motomatters: Apparently Quartararo has been riding frames from Lorenzo's 2016 or even 2015 campaign. These frames create a higher center of gravity so that the bike kinda "falls into" the turns. This rewards a smooth riding style. Zarco also used these frames.
 
If Yamaha doesn't want to spend the $$$ to develop a better bike they should just pull out of MotoGP. Year after year the Ducati has been able to out-accelerate the M1 fast enough to blow some of the blue paint off. Year after year Yamaha responds to that power disadvange simply by painting their bikes a slightly different shade of blue!

HRC is responding to the Ducati's power. Earlier this year Marc managed to slipstream and pass the Ducati! That's not something the RCV was capable of last year.

Yamaha is behind the curve for both engine power and electronics. They need to decide if they really want to compete.
 
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moto vudu said:
If Yamaha doesn't want to spend the $$$ to develop a better bike they should just pull out of MotoGP. Year after year the Ducati has been able to out-accelerate the M1 fast enough to blow some of the blue paint off. Year after year Yamaha responds to that power disadvange simply by painting their bikes a slightly different shade of blue!

HRC is responding to the Ducati's power. Earlier this year Marc managed to slipstream and pass the Ducati! That's not something the RCV was not capable of last year.

Yamaha is behind the curve for both engine power and electronics. They need to decide if they really want to compete.
Click to expand...

On the grounds of basic physics i think the Desmo valves have an intrinsic advantage for power with economy, and post the 990s MotoGP is theoretically and probably practically still a fuel economy formula. Honda have no doubt thrown bulk financial and engineering resources at the problem, resources Yamaha don’t have; I know Yamaha’s bike component was hived off from the main company, but figuratively at least it requires the selling of quite a lot of pianos to match Honda’s expenditure. They shouldn’t be out powered by skint Suzuki however who similarly run an I-4 I agree. Yamaha were still pretty competitive at what is likely the circuit which most rewards raw power and straight line performance though.
 
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gui22a said:
I don't think it's an honest way thinking right after today that a master, but isolated win by Dovi, can now make him fully respectable. A single race cannot change facts. For sure on this race, he gave one thing more than he has given, he himself admitted on the interview in parc fermé that he wasn't rational on that moment and even him got surprised by what he had just managed to do. So the Dovi of today is a world champion, period. But the reality is that he is not able to repeat this version of himself the necessary times in a year in order to clinch the title.

I don't think he can win the title on a Ducati that can turn better. Certainly I do believe Ducati needs a bike that turns better, but won't be Dovizioso who will win a title with that. In fact, I believe he would do even worse than now because the bike would lost some of its characteristics that Dovi capitalizes the most with his style. Furthermore, both Lorenzo and Iannone have managed to make this bike turn faster than Dovi, which means he has room to improve in this respect, but can not do it because he would lost his favorite advantages. Today it became clear that he does not need a better bike, he just need a better himself. He won over MM with no technical advantage, which means the variable lacking in this equation is courage.

The truth is that Dovi is a coward semi-champion hidden behind his rational thinking. Not even Amadeo Maffei could turned out the thing. He will never be champion because he lacks that last step. And I'm not surprised by his today performance just after the shadow of Lorenzo projected on his shoulders.
Click to expand...

Coward? Really? Nobody who regularly rides bikes that top out at over 200 mph, and comes back repeatedly to race after traumatic injuries, resulting in broken bones, missing fingers and months of painful rehab to risk it all over and over can be called a coward. Fun fact, the record for highest top speed is held by none other than Dovizioso in Italy at 221.5 mph.
 
Barbedwirebikerr said:
I heard on the telecast last race, they were talking to Petronas boss; that Quartaro actually has one of JLo's chassis.


Also mentioned on kropo's site.

From motomatters: Apparently Quartararo has been riding frames from Lorenzo's 2016 or even 2015 campaign. These frames create a higher center of gravity so that the bike kinda "falls into" the turns. This rewards a smooth riding style. Zarco also used these frames.
Click to expand...

Ha - very cool. Funny that . . . I sold two of my bikes so I can get something for long rides and have been test riding a few Triumph Tigers. I first tried the "Low" model and found it twitchy in fast turns and the regular XCx model with higher center of gravity is much more stable and confidence inspiring.
 
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Little Walter said:
Coward? Really? Nobody who regularly rides bikes that top out at over 200 mph, and comes back repeatedly to race after traumatic injuries, resulting in broken bones, missing fingers and months of painful rehab to risk it all over and over can be called a coward. Fun fact, the record for highest top speed is held by none other than Dovizioso in Italy at 221.5 mph.
Click to expand...

Yes, coward. Speed is just a question of getting used to. They are all human beings, not gods. I don't like this idea of calling some MotoGP riders as "aliens", this is ridiculous to say at least. They are not any special, and talent it's just a word that describes something that does not exists. I don't believe in ........ "natural talent", I believe in training and in brains capable of extract and process more information from that specific kind of training than others, just that. There is no such thing like "talent to ride a bike", there is indeed brains more or less capable to process activities that involve tasks ALSO used when riding a bike. All the rest is the environment providing ways, i.e., training, training, training... and yes, the guy has to have a life that provides him time and resources to train a lot.

There is no guarantee that the riders in MotoGP are the "most special" (and indeed they are not) since very few people have the opportunity to have their kind of life. There is a very, very highly probability that there could be a lot of riders much better than the average MotoGP rider over there if more people had the chance to follow their path at bike racing. There could be much more Marquezes, Rossis and Stoners, et al.
 

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