Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
If they were lying, and the narrative was that the vote against changing the weight was not the needed unanimous vote with Ducati demurring, it was perhaps because Honda considered it outrageous to change the weight so late in proceedings, months after the regulations for 2012 were promulgated and after considerable pre-season testing, during which, I am sure entirely coincidentally Casey Stoner, was regularly a second ahead of the field. I never understood if the weight change was to benefit Ducati which was the main ostensible reason Dorna gave for the change why Ducati didn't just tell Dorna or whomever straight away that Honda had lied.
If you read Stoner's autobiography he is firmly of the view that Dorna tried to nobble him and Honda for 2012, particularly with the tyre change. That doesn't make it true of course, but that is what he thinks.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Yes, tiny Ducati Corse, in 2007 an equipe about the same size as KRSR's operation, needed an unfair advantage over Honda and Yamaha.
It was closer to being prototype racing then as the sport had originally been, and in particular there was a tyre war with Bridgestone's aim being to out-do Michelin, the long term leading tyre manufacturer.
What I recall in regard to the 2007 Ducati was that Ducati considered it impossible to beat Rossi by means of a rider matching or out-riding him, so they went with a radical bike. The narrative at the time, believed by Ducati themselves and it would seem by Valentino Rossi, was that Ducati had stolen a march on Yamaha and Honda electronics-wise, the 2007 Ducati being the bike that rode itself, but it obviously later emerged the main software advantage resided between Stoner's ears, operating substantially via a connection to his right wrist.
Ducati back then didn't even have the the capacity to fabricate an aluminum twin spar chassis hence the traditional steel trellis frame chassis from which they went to carbon fibre, I believe partly due to quality control issues with the trellis frame chassis, and had to out source (to Suter iirc) when Rossi demanded a conventional chassis during his tenure. The control tyre was naturally fairly rapidly developed to suit the main field all of whom were employing conventional chassis.
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Joined Mar 2016
2K Posts | 2K+
FNQ
Maverick speaking out about Yamaha's woes, and inability to find a solution.
Viñales gets something off his chest: ‘I felt forgotten and abandoned, neither Jarvis nor Meregalli dealt well with this situation’
By Motorcycle Sports
15 October, 2018
The crisis that has plagued Yamaha has paused in Buriram, with the return to the good results. But by then the atmosphere in the garage was far from being recommended. Maverick Viñales spoke of the theme without taboos to SKY TV Italia.
‘We have to be patient and expect Yamaha to be competitive again. My contract lasts for another two years and I have to be confident and not lose hope. I know Yamaha can get better. Neither Lin [Jarvis] nor Meregalli could handle this situation in the best way. From the part that touches me, I felt a little forgotten and abandoned. I’d rather they have given me more support in a few moments. It’s important that we function as a team and I missed that. It is important to have support when things don’t go well’, the spanish rider told, who in Thailand managed to return to the podium with the blue bike.
The Japan GP at Motegi is followed by the Spanish GP, where the spaniard will doubt whether performance in Buriram is a result of obvious improvements or if the crisis is to last.
Viñales gets something off his chest: ‘I felt forgotten and abandoned, neither Jarvis nor Meregalli dealt well with this situation’
By Motorcycle Sports
15 October, 2018
The crisis that has plagued Yamaha has paused in Buriram, with the return to the good results. But by then the atmosphere in the garage was far from being recommended. Maverick Viñales spoke of the theme without taboos to SKY TV Italia.
‘We have to be patient and expect Yamaha to be competitive again. My contract lasts for another two years and I have to be confident and not lose hope. I know Yamaha can get better. Neither Lin [Jarvis] nor Meregalli could handle this situation in the best way. From the part that touches me, I felt a little forgotten and abandoned. I’d rather they have given me more support in a few moments. It’s important that we function as a team and I missed that. It is important to have support when things don’t go well’, the spanish rider told, who in Thailand managed to return to the podium with the blue bike.
The Japan GP at Motegi is followed by the Spanish GP, where the spaniard will doubt whether performance in Buriram is a result of obvious improvements or if the crisis is to last.
Joined Mar 2015
2K Posts | 337+
Chertsey, Surrey, UK
Well done Mav, about time someone put the boot in. Jarvis is looking like a sour old woman and needs the sack.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Let’s not forget that Jarvis was more than ready to move on from Rossi but the marketing division insisted on bringing him back in 2013. He knew that no matter what, Focus would have to center around him which meant ignoring the other rider. They lost Lorenzo because of this .... and now Vinales is whimpering about being forgotten. Until Yamaha locates their balls and realizes Rossi is not the future, they will stay stuck developing bikes that are comfortable to a 40 year old instead of a bike that a younger rider will take to the edge.
Yep, all of that is my understanding too.
They had real issues with consistency on the trellis. They used FTR (not Suter) for the twin spar alloy frame though.
Sure, it was FTR. Rossi was correct as well, even regardless of whether a carbon fibre chassis was viable in general a control tyre does essentially mean the bike has to suit the tyres rather than the reverse.
It does trigger me a little to speak of Stoner having a tyre advantage given Rossi had always been a top echelon Michelin guy, which had pretty much been necessary to have any chance till not long before 2007.
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Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Dorna was wanting to increase the weight of the bikes n the crt era so the crt bikes would be more competitive. Back then the MSM had veto power over technical changes but required unanimous vote from every factory . Honda told Dorna that the factories had unanimously voted against a weight increase which turned out not to be true as Ducati had seized the opportunity to .... with the Japanese for years of being ...... over by them . They ratted out Honda and Yamaha and the weight increase was approved . It wasn’t really that the weight increase was going to help Ducati but they had a pretty good idea they could slow down Stoner who was dominating proceedings and had stated the 2012 RCV was the best bike he had ever ridden. Ducati was correct, it totally thru the Honda out of whack and it took them almost half the season to find a balance. Then Stoner trashed his ankle and their title hopes went out the window.
Joined Feb 2018
681 Posts | 535+
Italy
Also, did the other riders who tried the Ducati/Bridgestone combo ever perform anywhere near Stoner's level?
Casey was the rawest talent this sport has ever seen and as much as I can tolerate people disliking him (for whatever reason) I hate when they discredit his skills.
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