I've watched the races this evening and I don't understand where the critisism for Melandris riding is coming from. Did i miss something or is it mainly disappointed Haslam fans being less than objective?
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
haslam is the new crutchlow it seems
and of course what haslam says (with whatever reasons in the back of his mind) has to be true, no way that was just either a racing incident or rea being a bit hot headed (again)
and of course what haslam says (with whatever reasons in the back of his mind) has to be true, no way that was just either a racing incident or rea being a bit hot headed (again)
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Interesting. Handed his ...? Melandri has resorted to dirty tactics because Haslam has beat him consistently. Its clear Haslam is the better rider on that team. Of this there is no doubt, Melandri knows it, and has resorted to the Italian/Spanish school of racing, if you can't beat them, crash them. The only time Melandri beat Haslam in the first 7 races was race number one at PI, that's right, one damn day removed from Leon having a broken leg and having a screw drilled into it, and the other was a crash at .... weather Assen while leading the damn race no less. The other than that DNF at .... weather ....., Haslam has consistently beat Melandri, 5,6 Philip Island, 3,6 & 3,10 Imola, 4,5 Race 2 Assen, and 2,4 Monza. In race one at Donny where you claim he got his "... handed to him", he was battling with Melandri getting the better of him when Melandri decided to employ dirty tactics and brake check him sending Haslam through the gravel (which was an awesome save). Melandri was only able to get away because rocket ship Sykes bike held him up enough (coupled with Haslam's refusal to play dirty tactics for a pass). But watch race one again, see the time Haslam makes up once released from the clutches of that Kawasaki. He makes up enough to get it within 0.7 of a sec. I have no doubt Haslam was on to win that race, Melandri knows it, and knew the only way he was going to shake Haslam was to resort to dirty tactics. Haslam has twice the podiums to Melandri, 4,2, and has more top 5 finishes, 6,2. Ok, so other than the very first race with a broken leg, Melandri has been consistently beat by Haslam . But Haslam was on pace to make Donny's result a push, advantage Haslam, that is until dummy-dive-bomb-Melandri tried a couple of times to collect Haslam (last corner and also see the hair pin). Where Melandri failed, Rea succeeded, as he locked in and fired off his heat seeking missile.
I'll tell you what, I'm willing to make you a bet, as I've detected a bit of dislike for Haslam by your part. You know I'm a Haslam fan, so here is the bet, a six pack of beer for each of the following statistics: I says Haslam will out perform Melandri.
1. Year end points: the winner sends the loser a six pack of beer.
2. Year end podiums: the winner sends the loser a six pack of beer.
3. Year end top 5s: the winner sends the loser a six pack of beer.
Now as to your second point, saying that Haslam is just trying to deflect from Melandri's win. First of all, the post race comments were not very scathing either way, so saying he has some ulterior motive to press "blame" is rather a bit of a reach. But I'd like you to do a little mental excercise here, I invite anybody else to do the same. Try to imagine Rea's move in your minds eye WITHOUT Melandri's dive bomb. That is, go over in your mind the sequence of events that lead to Rea crashing into Haslam but pretend that Melandri did not exist in that sequence. Then ask yourself this question, how likely would have Rea done what he did had that space between Haslam and Rea not been occupied by a rider? Would Rea have come from even further back than Malandri did, to attempt a pass? I know Rea has shown to have questionable racecraft (go back and see his ramming of Biaggi and Melandri in these races) but I serious doubt he would have attempted this ramming had Melandri not dive bombed sparking the sequence of events that lead to the crash.
Joined Jan 2011
3K Posts | 152+
The North!
.... man yeah!
How could I forget this!
Fantastic ride from Sam, he seems to be settling down nicely now,
Good to see him getting his first win.
My pleasure Wills, Anytime
Thats just reminded me of what messed up my memory
Joined Jan 2011
3K Posts | 152+
The North!
haslam is the new crutchlow it seems
and of course what haslam says (with whatever reasons in the back of his mind) has to be true, no way that was just either a racing incident or rea being a bit hot headed (again)
Nah Tom Sykes is my new Crutchlow,
Just because he's from yorkshire. My homelands
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
jesus christ jumkie is leon nickys lost brother?how can you hold melandri responsible for reas actions?anytime a rider can't be judged impartially the language shows it, of this there is no doubt
i'm impressed with haslam too,i thought his ride at PI was awesome considering the circumstances. but lets not forget he's had a little bit more time on that bike
i'm impressed with haslam too,i thought his ride at PI was awesome considering the circumstances. but lets not forget he's had a little bit more time on that bike
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
Nah Tom Sykes is my new Crutchlow,
Just because he's from yorkshire. My homelands
well ok no worries then about understanding you, i had my problems with guy martin, sykes is fine
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Absolutely Frizzle, Spot one! Absolutely. I actually went over this in my mind (small admittedly). It was a stretch for Meladnri to come from so way back to attempt out braking Haslam (even Rea admits this in the post race conference). But what he doesn't say is, if this was too far back for Meladnri, wouldn’t that make it too too far back for Rea? After all, didn't Melandri occupy a space between Halsam and Rea? So if this was way to far back for Melandri to attempt, then Rea's move was criminal. Kesh mentions it doesn't look like Haslam was interrupted much, I think Haslam was interrupted, but just a bit, that is, his entry aimed at late apex to go underneath Melandri (who was headed for the next county); so what makes Rea's move acceptable? Was there even a review by race direction? I haven't read any. Did they issue a message that it was under investigation? If something like this doesn't even get a blip, then it would be impossible to sanction another such move done on purpose if they wanted to remain legitimate of consistent. What then would stop another rider in 2nd position to make such a move on the inside to win a race? People dismiss this by saying; well they all want to win. Well no ..... But what then legally would stop another rider 'wanting to win' to use another rider as a berm? Theoretically it can happen on every close race for the finish. Just don't brake and go on the inside of the lead rider, punt him, and there is your race win.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
I'm glad you had a great weekend bro. I'm also glad I didn't secretly fly out to see the races, as I probably would have got in trouble after that race 2 incident.
Totally agree on your take about the incident. Melandri and Rea have been entered as members to my axis of evil list.
We await pics from the weekend good sir.
Well he wasn't doing himself any favours, but he's welcome to try it. He didn't run anyone off the track or lose the front end trying to make it work
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
jesus christ jumkie is leon nickys lost brother?how can you hold melandri responsible for reas actions?anytime a rider can't be judged impartially the language shows it, of this there is no doubt
Maybe. Rides fast, beats his teammate while on rare occasion they're on equal equipment, doesn't make boneheaded dive bombs, gets torpedoed by .... riders who shut their brains off, and has primo dona teammate...yeah, Nicky and Halsam might have been separated at birth.
I think Melandri has resorted to .... tactics because I'm sure the pressure had been building seeing as Haslam has been consistently beating him (as I showed above). Plus the Flaminis are just chomping at the bit to promote one of their own. That is partly the reason why Efenbert was pissed off, knowing that Melandri is a darling that will get quite a bit of political leniency. Again, I said above, for those of you not convinced Melandri has anything to do with this incident, it was his dive bomb that triggered the sequence of events. No dive bomb and its very unlikely Rea goes bowling ball. What you and Tom are suggesting would be of the same vein of logic that it was Haslams fault for crashing into Melandri. Sequence of events my friend, they start from the initial trigger.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
This is one you won't win on any kind of legitimate racing opinion my friend, I think you've stuck your foot in you mouth (and knowing you, I certainly don't expect you to concede). You are saying any rider then is welcome to try a dive bomb in front of the lead rider, so long as they don't make contact, run a rider off track. Its only a question of luck that a rider doing this has not crashed into the lead rider, as the dive bomb is proof positive of a misjudgment! That is, a mistake has occurred. Unless you are now going to argue they did this on purpose to remain behind the lead rider after they've run wide. Even so, in this case there is not need to "run anyone off track" but merely interrupting the momentum of the lead rider, even if barely detectable, is enough as proof positive there was a mistake made. I doubt you want to continue this line of logic. There is nothing here to debate then.
EDIT to add, Tom, I'm not saying Melandri is at most fault, after reconsideration (which I mentioned a couple of pages ago) from Geo's posts, I think Rea was the predominant egregious perpetrator in this incident. What i'm saying is, I'm not letting Melandri off the hook for his part in all of this. Don't know if this help our little exchange buddy.
I'm really not sure. You seem to have taken a very strong position against Melandri, as far as I can see he made two lunges on the last lap and did nothing else wrong, firstly was there something else he did to displease you? About those moves, I don't agree with your use of the phrase 'dive bomb', that is far from an objective term. The basis of my previous post was as simple as the fact that it is relatively common in bike racing for a rider to try a pass from a but too far back, run into a turn too hot, go wide and get cut back. Now you've got me thinking about it, is your position that this is never acceptable, on the basis that a rider should be critisized for anything other than a successful and clean pass? Or are we saying there is nothing wrong in principle but discretion in this case leads you to conclude that Melandri was simply too far back to have a realistic hope of getting through?
For me, i'm not convinced it is simply luck between Melandri and a crash, he is obviously clutching at straws to get the win like a hugely competitive rider will do at this level, but I read his behaviour as mindful in that although he commited to outbraking Leon, once he realised it was too much to ask he ran out wide ahead of Leon rather than going all out to stop the bike and lowsiding, or going shoulder to shoulder with Leon on a much shallower line and having a Jerez 05 type of accident. Perhaps I'm giving Marco too much credit in this case. I think you are just as likely to be giving him too little by deducing that he was trying to disrupt Leon or worse take him wide on purpose.
You are clearly expecting me to be pretty stubborn, but to be honest I really don't know what to make of it. I think it's interesting, I would like to make examples of a few other instances, and see where/how you would draw the line. I will have a think and see if I can come up with any specific cases
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Fair post Tom. Good points and questions. I added an edit to my post you quoted, not sure if you saw that. I'm taking a scathing position on Melandri because he attempted an overtake several times that were misjudged, that is, mistakes (twice that I can recall against Haslam in the closing laps of Race 2, but I'm sure there was another one this event). In a sport where the smallest mistakes are detrimental, the type of spectacular failed move Melandri repeated with the same effect was ridiculous. I call them a mistake because surely running wide was not his intention, right? That he ran wide simply says that his mistake was lucky for him and the rider he attempted to overtake, as his mistake wasn't more catastrophic. Again, saying he missed making contact is more a matter of luck, as the miscue had already been executed, and taking corrective action was a matter of damage limitation. Its a bit like saying, a guy ran off the road, that he didn't collide with a wall is luck because he missed it by an inch. You’re trying to say, you see, it wasn’t such a bad mistake, he missed the wall by an inch. You say he didn't tuck the front, so no harm no foul, but not tucking the front and taking each other out is a mistake, of the same type as running in too hot and having to take corrective action, that is, its still a big mistake. Saying it is "relatively common" is like saying crashes are relatively common, does that make them any less problematic? When a rider cuts the front of a rider attempting an ill conceived pass attempt, everybody watching, even a casual follower of the sport surmised, that was not meant by the rider. So can we get past this and call it a mistake? Btw, the main reason he didn’t tuck the front was because he used several more feet of pavement.
Yeesh, BMW's first WSBK win gets overshadowed. Where are the team orders?
(Oh wait, this isn't Formula 1)
Joined Aug 2008
6K Posts | 748+
Thailand
I see the incident as 100% Rea.
This is where you appear to be hung up. No Melandri and Rea still goes bowling for beemers IMHO.
More BS in trying to prove your point Jum. All riders make the smallest of mistakes every lap (or every lap would be perfect) to no detrimental effect. Did Marco make a mistake on the final corner of race two? Hell yeah! Did his mistake cause Rea to dissociate with reality and think he was racing on playstation? Hell no! Rea 100% responsible and should have been sanctioned.
Let's use a Jumkism: If Marco had run too deep, as he did, and Rea was not there, just Biaggi and Sykes, would we even be talking about this? Haslam would have won, Biaggi probably pip Marco at the line with Sykes a close fourth. Race over no controversy.
100% Rea.
I would be more inclined to call Melandris moves calculated risks than outright mistakes. Of course it didn't work out how he wanted it to in the end, but I think he decided he would outbrake Leon (wherever Leon braked), knowing that he could run on wide at those corners if the move didn't look good once he'd commited to it. Think of it like this. Riders run off the track in practice far more often at the corners with tarmac runoff areas than at corners that don't. This is not just luck, it is the calculated risk. The get out clause they have in their efforts makes them more inclined to give it a shot.
