Will Hayden Retain the title?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (machmanzx10r @ Nov 3 2006, 10:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So, Rossi won 5 times and Hayden won 2 times. Rossi still had 3 N/C's and Hsayden only had 1 N/C. The stats that I posted earlier in this thread show that Rossi, while winning 5 races, was not as good this year as Hayden. Period.

How that translates to next year is unclear. I would say that next year will be a crap shoot as to who will win. New machines, new companies and these bikes will be going to some races without any kind of data. That is what is going to make the championship a great ride next year. All the riders will have to adapt on the fly and really get their bikes set up once they get to the track.
we all bar 2 point's its really 4 N/C's. your stats look similar for rossi and nicky, but given this fact that doesnt look good for world champ nicky IMO

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Nov 3 2006, 01:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi onyurtail, I predict Hayden will win.

Here is the short answer .........I like your take on this Junkie, and thanks for putting all that info together, you learn something everyday. People have to admit that we're almost 'conditionned' to believe that Rossi is unbeatable. I really thought before valencia that it was all over for Hayden and believed it would take a huge amount of guts and a lot of luck for him to win the title. Well what do you know? That's exactly what happenned . The same two things that Rossi and every other guy that won a world title has to have. The luck, you can't really do anything about, if I could, I'd go to Vegas too. The other ingredient, skill, heart, tenacity, guts, call it whatever the hell you want. This is down to the rider, in this case Hayden. The fact is now Rossi is very beatable, it's only this year and his first in 500's that we've seen this happen regularly. The stats are very interesting reading, especially about recent trends in riders performance. It all gives us even more to look forward to.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Nov 2 2006, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ha ha ha, em I the only person that thinks its funny how people keep coming up with ways (some creative) to take shots at Hayden?

- yes jumkie - i think you might be !

i voted........................ no

unfortunately for nicky - i rekon this will be the hardest possible year for him to defend his title. the bikes un-known quantities at the minute and are yet to prove themselves in race conditions.

hopper could walk next season for all we know

but - i rekon pedrosa will take it. he's proved he's on the pace (at this early stage) & i dare say honda have had this bike on a back burner for ages while they pushed for the rule change and it's probably well developed already. he's the perfect build for an 800c/c - his riding style will suit it and frankly i rekon he's a very capable pilot.

i'm sure this thread will haunt us all in about 12 months time !


vive rossi

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IsraeliRacer @ Nov 2 2006, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Colin Edwards doesn't deserve anything, especially if he keeps up with his Valentino ...-kissing attitude. He has no ambition, and someone with no ambition doesn't deserve to be on the most competitive motorbike racing grid in the world.
They've taken the clip off YouTube (someone copied it from motogp.com and they get pissy about such stuff apparently) but it was really pathetic.

Colin would make a good teammate to Hayden. NH wants help from everyone to win a title and CE willfully helps anyone who wants a title. They'd be unstoppable. Or in this case Hayden.

Things to ponder on: Did NH win the title or was it handed on to him on a silver platter by Vale? Hmm.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gx6rdr @ Nov 3 2006, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Colin would make a good teammate to Hayden. NH wants help from everyone to win a title and CE willfully helps anyone who wants a title. They'd be unstoppable. Or in this case Hayden.

Things to ponder on: Did NH win the title or was it handed on to him on a silver platter by Vale? Hmm.


GET HIM JUMKIE !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baldylocks @ Nov 3 2006, 07:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>GET HIM JUMKIE !

I likie the doughnuts. (inside joke).

(Baldy your a ball of funny)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (onyurtail @ Nov 2 2006, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Racejunkie....

Good response and very good points but there are two that you made that I disagree on... and I mention them without being condescending.

First is Rossi winning 5 races this year not winning the championship... the fact is that he won 11 in his last year of winning the championship. No biggie, honest mistake.... minor point.

And the second and most important is your comment on the mental strength and the taste of a championship. I disagree that Valentino never fought tooth and nail for the championship. Do you recall the incident in Qatar 2004? Sete accused Rossi's team of removing sand from his starting position moving Rossi to the rear of the grid. He did make one hell of a start but unfortunately crashed out, putting the title somewhat in jepaordy. From that incident, what did Valentino vow? That Sete would no longer win a race. From that race, Valentino pulled off the last three wins to win the championship and then went on an eleven win season with Sete winning ..... Kinda seems like Rossi jinxed him didn't it?



Oops, had to add about your momentum theory... true Nicky has momentum, but to only win two races in your first year as champion is kinda hard to swallow when Valentino won 11 in his first two years as champion, 9 the next two and then 11 for 2005.

i will stick up for hayden here (yes jumkie its roger talking )
he may not have won in the most spectacular way but he did do it all himself.
i dont think he had any real help from his team mate and it doesnt seem he had to much from hrc either, credit where it's due.

Hi onyoutail,

Thanks for the correction, when I said last year for Rossi, I meant this year, 5 wins, and yes last year what you said.

Also, for the mental element, I did call that a DRAW (tied), they both got what it takes mentally, otherwise I don't think either one would have won a title.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Nov 3 2006, 08:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i will stick up for hayden here (yes jumkie its roger talking )
he may not have won in the most spectacular way but he did do it all himself.
i dont think he had any real help from his team mate and it doesnt seem he had to much from hrc either, credit where it's due.

What? am I going crazy, who kidnapped roger-m? Is that a crack in the armor? Because that sounded a little positive for Nicky. Haha, I'm just messing with you buddy. (can I call you buddy?)

Ok, to balance out the universe, I will say something positive for Rossi (which is not hard to do). (But in my defense, if you look at many of my posts, I have said some great stuff about him)

“Usually legends are past heroes that we make into greater-than-they-were icons, however, we have been witness to a champion in Rossi that has surpassed even our fantasy of greatness, and for the past decade, he has validated every one of his accolades.” By: Racejumkie circa 2006

Now how’s that for a positive description of Rossi’s accomplishments?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Nov 3 2006, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What? am I going crazy, who kidnapped roger-m? Is that a crack in the armor? Because that sounded a little positive for Nicky. Haha, I'm just messing with you buddy. (can I call you buddy?)

Ok, to balance out the universe, I will say something positive for Rossi (which is not hard to do). (But in my defense, if you look at many of my posts, I have said some great stuff about him)

“Usually legends are past heroes that we make into greater-than-they-were icons, however, we have been witness to a champion in Rossi that has surpassed even our fantasy of greatness, and for the past decade, he has validated every one of his accolades.” By: Racejumkie circa 2006

Now how’s that for a positive description of Rossi’s accomplishments?
^^ cool. and yes you can call me buddy

look up there ^^^

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gx6rdr @ Nov 3 2006, 05:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Colin would make a good teammate to Hayden. NH wants help from everyone to win a title and CE willfully helps anyone who wants a title. They'd be unstoppable. Or in this case Hayden.

Things to ponder on: Did NH win the title or was it handed on to him on a silver platter by Vale? Hmm.

I see you have a doughnut machine. (inside joke).

Here is my response: see what Roger-m had to say about this...

and coming from him that means alot.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gx6rdr @ Nov 3 2006, 07:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Things to ponder on: Did NH win the title or was it handed on to him on a silver platter by Vale? Hmm.

Did Dani hand Rossi the points lead on a silver platter? Did Honda hand Vale the title on a silver platter by giving Nicky a crap clutch and no team orders, only to have Rossi crash, therefore returning the gift to Honda? Or, if you think the clutch story is bogus, did Nicky attempt to hand Rossi the title on a silver platter with a string of lackluster performances?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Nov 3 2006, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did Dani hand Rossi the points lead on a silver platter? Did Honda hand Vale the title on a silver platter by giving Nicky a crap clutch and no team orders, only to have Rossi crash, therefore returning the gift to Honda? Or, if you think the clutch story is bogus, did Nicky attempt to hand Rossi the title on a silver platter with a string of lackluster performances?

Hi Mr. Shupe. Good questions.

(Maybe everybody was thinking about Christmas with all this gift giving and silver platters, eh)

ok ok ok, this thread is turning into a definite classic, I love it already

~but then again, who DIDN'T expect all this whenever it inevitably came time that Rossi would actually lose one year....

for those who have been watching the sport since Rossi won his first, think of all that HE 'is' and all that he has done and accomplished...now then, doesn't Hayden's quote ring even to the slightest tune of "WTF?!"..."taking Rossi on next season?"...and "winning again"...as if that's an old trick for him...mmmmm ...humility will get you far when challenging Vale, 'pride' won't (just look at Biaggi's and Gibernau's track record)...remember, Rossi has literally 10 times the wins Hayden does. Yes Hayden got a championship, but NO, he has no right to compare...

I just think of it this way (let's speak 'what if' for a sec)...let's say Rossi did actually stay up on his bike in the last race of the season and (just as a what if) stayed with the leaders and actually took the championship again this year...now look back at that statement by Hayden with just ONE SINGLE RACE being different, if Nicky would have made that very same quote, he would be the laughing stock of MotoGP. NIcky Hayden, boasting about challenging Rossi?! ...BUT, just because of one fall in one race, somehow Nicky Hayden and Valentino Rossi have become equals and the 2 dominant forces in MotoGP who are neck and neck...mmm, not so much.

lest we forget, Hayden is STILL Hayden...Just because he has 'A' title under his belt (which IS a notable distinction indeed) that still doesn't change who he is. Just because Rossi fell in one race does not make him suddenly 'AS GOOD AS ROSSI'...yes he's good, but reality is reality, He is NOT a dominant force in motoGP (at least not in comparison to how Rossi has been), he has not dethroned Rossi, at least not in the context of proving that he can ride a bike better or faster than Rossi can...
3 weeks ago(before the season ended), every single person on these boards would be laughing out loud if ANY rider in motoGP would have the audacity to speak of 'beating Rossi' and 'challenging Rossi' as if he were Vale's equal...yet, just because Vale fell in one race, somehow he's not F'ing Valentino Rossi anymore, arguably the greatest motorcycle racer in history.

not trying to open a can of worms, Nicky Hayden IS and DESERVES TO BE champ...just surprised Rossi (who everyone worshipped 3 weeks ago) has already fallen into the ranks of equality with guys like Hayden on the grounds of one race...



Haydens Quotes here LINKY

good post mate. even if rossi lost next yeah he would still be the king in my book.

Yamahammer, I think you're reaching a bit in regards to what Nicky said.

"I know we've made Valentino mad by taking his title..."

Vale is a determined professional. A driven, dominant rider like him wants to win badly and is probably mad when he doesn't. I think it's reasonable to think that The Doctor is a little mad, don't you?

"...I'm looking forward to taking him on next season."

Nicky is just stating his excitement and optimism for next year. Every rider "takes on" Rossi when he races in proximity to him, trying to earn the highest position possible. What is wrong with looking forward to the next big challenge? Nicky certainly did take him on last Sunday, who is to say that he definitely won't next year?

"I want to come back next year and win again on this (800cc) bike. To win one title is great but to win two of them takes you into another elite group - so I'm still hungry."

So, it looks like Nicky wants to win again, imagine that! Winning multiple world titles in motorcycle racing's premiere division does, in my opinion, put you into an elite group. Now that doesn't necesarily mean one would be the best rider of all time, just an elite group.

So, of all of the quotes in the article you linked to, where does Nicky try to say he is equal with Rossi? Where does he say Rossi isn't what he used to be? Where does he say that he is better or faster than Rossi? Where does Nicky say, or even suggest, that he is a dominant force in Moto GP?

To me it seems as though Nicky is being a racer who looks forward to challenges and future achievements. He gives the impression that he will not simply bask in the glow of that one title, that he is already hard at work towards his title defense. Is he supposed to publicly defer to the almighty Rossi? Why shouldn't Nicky act like a racer who has confidence and wants to win? Hell, why would a factory rider for what is arguably the biggest team approach the next season with a "I'm unworthy" attitude?

I think Nicky would be a laughing stock if he said "I know I'm not half the rider Valentino is. He has 10 times the wins I do, and I only won the title because he binned it. Next year I'm just gonna ride around and do my best; I don't honestly think I have a chance of winning..."

Don't read too much into Nicky's quotes; he's only being a racer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Nov 3 2006, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did Dani hand Rossi the points lead on a silver platter? Did Honda hand Vale the title on a silver platter by giving Nicky a crap clutch and no team orders, only to have Rossi crash, therefore returning the gift to Honda? Or, if you think the clutch story is bogus, did Nicky attempt to hand Rossi the title on a silver platter with a string of lackluster performances?

Yes, Yes, Yes, & Yes.....but ultimately in the end, did Rossi handed Nicky the title? Um yup.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gx6rdr @ Nov 3 2006, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, Yes, Yes, & Yes.....but ultimately in the end, did Rossi handed Nicky the title? Um yup.

That's cool. I was just trying to show you that Vale's year can be dissed just as easily as Nicky's can.

what do people expect nicky to say when he's interviewed ?

"....... I'm shitting myself for next year..........."
"....... Vale must be really pissed he blew his chances - he's really going to spank me next year........"
"........ There's no way I'm ever going to beat Rossi again......"

Whatever Nicky was trying to say - and i'm sure the sensationalist rags will twist whatever he did say to sell a few more copies - the guy is 'full of beans' having just won the title and more than entitled to be looking forward to doing it all again next year.

whether he's talking himself up or not - it's his place to do it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (machmanzx10r @ Nov 3 2006, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Okay....After hearing all the "Hayden is worthy" speak, I decided to get some numbers and let them speak for themselves. So, here goes:

Hayden's finishes for the Year 2006:
3-2-3-2-5-3-2-1-7-3-1-9-4-5-5-NC-3

Rossi's finishes for the Year 2006:
14-1-4-NC-NC-1-1-8-2-1-NC-2-1-3-2-2-13

Race Wins:
Rossi: 5
Hayden: 2

No Classifications:
Hayden: 1
Rossi: 3

Top 10 Finishes:
Hayden: 16
Rossi: 13

Top 5 Finishes:
Rossi: 11
Hayden: 13

Average Finish for the Year 2006:
Rossi: 13.5
Hayden: 3

Races won from P1:
Hayden: 0
Rossi: 2

Podium Finishes in a Row:
Rossi: 5
Hayden: 4

Podium Finishes:
Rossi: 10
Hayden: 10

So, as you can see, other than race wins and no classifications, Rossi and Hayden had VERY comperable seasons. So, for those that say Hayden was "okay" this season, are also saying the same thing about Rossi.

What is truly amazing about your numbers is how you conclude they are equal. First of all: DNF's 1 to 3 is a huge difference. Average finish Huge difference. Number of wins: Huge difference. Number of win from P1... While we talk about differences why not look at:
Number of finshes below 10th?
Number of starts from 4th row and behind?
The range in positions?
The range in start positions?

If you want equlity you look at averages, that's what they are for and that's how you make some remote similarity out of two totaly different strings of numbers.

That Rossi and Hayden end up with equal amont of podiums is more like a freak accident than prof of similarity in this comparison.

Rossis year has by all means been like a rollercoster while haydens has been like a flat highway. So, to argue that they have very similar season is truly amazing