Will Hayden Retain the title?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Nov 3 2006, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yamahammer, I think you're reaching a bit in regards to what Nicky said.

"I know we've made Valentino mad by taking his title..."

Vale is a determined professional. A driven, dominant rider like him wants to win badly and is probably mad when he doesn't. I think it's reasonable to think that The Doctor is a little mad, don't you?

"...I'm looking forward to taking him on next season."

Nicky is just stating his excitement and optimism for next year. Every rider "takes on" Rossi when he races in proximity to him, trying to earn the highest position possible. What is wrong with looking forward to the next big challenge? Nicky certainly did take him on last Sunday, who is to say that he definitely won't next year?

"I want to come back next year and win again on this (800cc) bike. To win one title is great but to win two of them takes you into another elite group - so I'm still hungry."

So, it looks like Nicky wants to win again, imagine that! Winning multiple world titles in motorcycle racing's premiere division does, in my opinion, put you into an elite group. Now that doesn't necesarily mean one would be the best rider of all time, just an elite group.

So, of all of the quotes in the article you linked to, where does Nicky try to say he is equal with Rossi? Where does he say Rossi isn't what he used to be? Where does he say that he is better or faster than Rossi? Where does Nicky say, or even suggest, that he is a dominant force in Moto GP?

To me it seems as though Nicky is being a racer who looks forward to challenges and future achievements. He gives the impression that he will not simply bask in the glow of that one title, that he is already hard at work towards his title defense. Is he supposed to publicly defer to the almighty Rossi? Why shouldn't Nicky act like a racer who has confidence and wants to win? Hell, why would a factory rider for what is arguably the biggest team approach the next season with a "I'm unworthy" attitude?

I think Nicky would be a laughing stock if he said "I know I'm not half the rider Valentino is. He has 10 times the wins I do, and I only won the title because he binned it. Next year I'm just gonna ride around and do my best; I don't honestly think I have a chance of winning..."

Don't read too much into Nicky's quotes; he's only being a racer.



Mr. Shupe!

You are exquisitely on target. You have the wordsmith ability I aspire to command.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Nov 3 2006, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>for those who have been watching the sport since Rossi won his first, think of all that HE 'is' and all that he has done and accomplished...now then, doesn't Hayden's quote ring even to the slightest tune of "WTF?!"..."taking Rossi on next season?"...and "winning again"...as if that's an old trick for him...mmmmm ...humility will get you far when challenging Vale

Yamahammer, when I read your post I thought for a minute, Damn perhaps Hayden’s gone crazy. But then I read the link, and then I thought, Yamahammer has gone crazy. (you know I’m just being funny Yama-man).

Yamahammer, I don’t understand how you could extrapolated all what you posted based on Hayden’s interview. Not only was he talking confidently (which is a champion’s quality) but he also gave props to Rossi. When he mentioned winning multiple championships being in an elite class, he was referring to people like Rossi. In other words, you can deduce that he aspires to become elite, not that he is already. That is a world of difference. He is recognizing that Rossi is elite, and perhaps even more.

I see that everything Hayden says is gonna be scrutinized, but lets be fair here, this was super mild in comparison to how some champs talk about their competition. I know we could site Rossi among those that have spoken on the brink of arrogance about other riders on the grid (Sete & Max). This is what champs do, they have a quality about them that recognizes they believe in themselves. But surely, Hayden’s confidence is humble.

Lastly, what led you to believe he thinks he was dominant? I read this over several times looking for what got you to lurch up and frankly, I can’t find it.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Nov 3 2006, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>good post mate. even if rossi lost next yeah he would still be the king in my book.

Roger-m, Since you thought Hammmer’s post was good, can you shed alittle light here. Besides the doughnuts, (or am I eating one right now)?

Hayden won't win.
Next year will be a battle for Rossi, Pedrosa, and Capirossi.
Yamaha bike isn't so good, but Rossi is a genius on it.
Pedrosa is tomorrow's star.
Ducati bike is strong, and Capirossi is, too.
Look forward to the battles.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Nov 3 2006, 03:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's cool. I was just trying to show you that Vale's year can be dissed just as easily as Nicky's can.

Very true. Didn't mean to come across as disrespect to Hayden. If I did, my apologies. I'm may not be a Hayden fan but on the same token, I'm certainly not a Hayden hater. He's a deserving champion in my opinion.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (christina @ Nov 4 2006, 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Look forward to the battles.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gx6rdr @ Nov 4 2006, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He's a deserving champion in my opinion.

+1 to both of you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Nov 4 2006, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Mr. Shupe!

You are exquisitely on target. You have the wordsmith ability I aspire to command.
Yamahammer, when I read your post I thought for a minute, Damn perhaps Hayden’s gone crazy. But then I read the link, and then I thought, Yamahammer has gone crazy. (you know I’m just being funny Yama-man).

Yamahammer, I don’t understand how you could extrapolated all what you posted based on Hayden’s interview. Not only was he talking confidently (which is a champion’s quality) but he also gave props to Rossi. When he mentioned winning multiple championships being in an elite class, he was referring to people like Rossi. In other words, you can deduce that he aspires to become elite, not that he is already. That is a world of difference. He is recognizing that Rossi is elite, and perhaps even more.

I see that everything Hayden says is gonna be scrutinized, but lets be fair here, this was super mild in comparison to how some champs talk about their competition. I know we could site Rossi among those that have spoken on the brink of arrogance about other riders on the grid (Sete & Max). This is what champs do, they have a quality about them that recognizes they believe in themselves. But surely, Hayden’s confidence is humble.

Lastly, what led you to believe he thinks he was dominant? I read this over several times looking for what got you to lurch up and frankly, I can’t find it.
Roger-m, Since you thought Hammmer’s post was good, can you shed alittle light here. Besides the doughnuts, (or am I eating one right now)?
hi jumkie,
well for a start i agreed with this and i think it needed to be said,
.BUT, just because of one fall in one race, somehow Nicky Hayden and Valentino Rossi have become equals and the 2 dominant forces in MotoGP who are neck and neck...mmm, not so much.

people seem to be forgeting there have been other challengers to rossi, ie biaggi, gibbers just to name a couple but none have stood the test of time, the only one who came close i think was gibbers but then he faded out,.hayden can be concidered equal when he is a 7 times world champ. rossi didnt concider himself equal to doohan untill he had scored 5 world championships in the prem class.
but i do say hayden does have a right to talk himself up cos he is the champ and that is what racers do.
jumkie..note my new sig hehe

Put it like this.

If you had both Rossi and Hayden on the same bike and they got used to it, then you put them 1 on 1 on the track for a 25 lap race, who do you think would win if both riders were on the peak of their career? It would be Rossi every time in my opinion.

^^^^ What he said

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Nov 4 2006, 05:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hi jumkie,
well for a start i agreed with this and i think it needed to be said,
.BUT, just because of one fall in one race, somehow Nicky Hayden and Valentino Rossi have become equals and the 2 dominant forces in MotoGP who are neck and neck...mmm, not so much.

people seem to be forgeting there have been other challengers to rossi, ie biaggi, gibbers just to name a couple but none have stood the test of time, the only one who came close i think was gibbers but then he faded out,.hayden can be concidered equal when he is a 7 times world champ. rossi didnt concider himself equal to doohan untill he had scored 5 world championships in the prem class.
but i do say hayden does have a right to talk himself up cos he is the champ and that is what racers do.
jumkie..note my new sig hehe

The point is this: where did Hayden consider himself as Rossi's equal? Is he just supposed to not say anything about his ambitions for next year?

Sounds to me like you are on the defensive, trying to remind everyone that Rossi is a good rider. Don't worry, we know.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Nov 4 2006, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The point is this: where did Hayden consider himself as Rossi's equal? Is he just supposed to not say anything about his ambitions for next year?

Sounds to me like you are on the defensive, trying to remind everyone that Rossi is a good rider. Don't worry, we know.
Is he just supposed to not say anything about his ambitions for next year?

if you read the second to last sentence in my post you will see i didnt dispute that.
it just seems a lot of hayden fans do talk like he's now rossi's equal and the championship will only be between hayden and rossi next yeah. as ive said in previous posts "the stats speak for themselves".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (christina @ Nov 4 2006, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden won't win.
Next year will be a battle for Rossi, Pedrosa, and Capirossi.
Yamaha bike isn't so good, but Rossi is a genius on it.
Pedrosa is tomorrow's star.
Ducati bike is strong, and Capirossi is, too.
Look forward to the battles.

I also think Dani is the future star. Imo he's really talented, he won a race in his first year, that shows his class. I personally think he's better than Nicky. I wouldn't be surprised if Dani would end in front of Nicky next season.

Anyway, I expect that the title fight will be between Rossi, Capirossi, Pedrosa and Hayden in the early stages of the season. I think in the end it will be between Vale and Dani.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (christina @ Nov 4 2006, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden won't win.
Next year will be a battle for Rossi, Pedrosa, and Capirossi.
Yamaha bike isn't so good, but Rossi is a genius on it.
Pedrosa is tomorrow's star.
Ducati bike is strong, and Capirossi is, too.
Look forward to the battles.
Seeing as you have 4 favourite riders and judging by this post I can read the type of person you are...and you really have to put everyone's perspective into view and not be biased to one or more riders. You're saying Hayden won't win next year but if that's so then why is he the new world champion and not Rossi, Capirossi or Pedrosa?
I admit, Rossi is going to be a stronger favourite than anyone else but next season COULD be even worse than the 06 season for him, you never know. Pedrosa isn't the only star of the future, you're going to have to watch out for Casey Stoner now that he's got the Ducati ride for next year. Watch out for Vermeulen too, and of course Pedrosa.
Marco Melandri is going to be hitting in with the big names next year also, whereas Gibernau's career may be near the end, looks like he's done a Jacques Villeneuve of F1 and is slowly going downhill.

Rossi has had challengers in Max and Gibbers but he destroyed both mentally. Besides his riding,he kills with his words as well as his silence. A few times this year Hayden was with him the whole race and in the post race interviews Rossi heaped praise on Marco and Capirex and completely ignored Hayden. I think Hayden fought through the mental aspect this year. Pedrosa will crack after a few battles with Rossi on and off the track [ maybe hard passes on the right?] and it will be between Hayden, Rossi, and my long shot, Stoner.Hayden wins again with fewer race wins to Vale keeping the debate going another year. Pedrosa could be counted out real quick with a few early wet races or even QP's.

^^ Here is a question that has been bugging me lately: What kind of racer feels the need to play the "psychological" game? Shouldn't the greatest racer of all time simply be able to beat everyone on the track?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Nov 5 2006, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>^^ Here is a question that has been bugging me lately: What kind of racer feels the need to play the "psychological" game? Shouldn't the greatest racer of all time simply be able to beat everyone on the track?

surely those who want it the most will employ any tactic to gain the most advantage he can over his rival? in lots of sports people talk about the psychological advantage.. should bike racing be any different?

Sorry but it's WAY to early to say if Hyden will retain it, but if you were to judge from this season then the answer would be no

I said yes, and there's a big chance that I could be very wrong, but...

I'm not going to pull out tons of statistics here like others have done (I am way too lazy for that), I'll just say what's in my head. After Brno I was doubting Nicky. And it wasn't just for being off the pace slightly, it was somthing else. I've had a good, hard think about it and I've realized that that press media mind control ........ had attached itself to my brain like a leech. I'd always had a soft spot for Nicky, but I'd never seen him as one of the "Big boys". That was a psychological thing. Nicky's done a lot to get to where he is now, but there's a lot of biased Rossi media in the world, and it had rubbed off, and there was this image of Hayden being "Just the nice guy with the smile" on my mind. It continued as Hayden had his bad luck this season, which came in smaller doses and more subtle ways, which, compared to spectacular, horrifying incidents like the Catalunya crash, (Which WASN'T Gibernau's fault, just for a change of pace) could easily be made to look like excuses by the Kentucky Kid's critics. Then Estoril came, Pedrosa made that fatal mistake and that was it. I had that frame of mind. Rossi had done it. Hayden was finished. Like Nicky himself said after that race "You don't just hand 8 points to a guy like Rossi". Even though Hayden was not out of the race by any means, the media mind-control bug was working wonders in my somewhat empty head. How can Hayden beat Rossi? This guy with 3 race wins in his 4th year on the best bike on the grid beat this seemingly inhuman racy thing with god knows how many records to his name? Well, it serves me right. Since when have statistics ruled motorcycle racing? Nicky won, in the cool headed, Rainey-style, do what you have to and don't risk a world title way that he's been using most of the season. Rossi cracked under pressure. So he is human, after all. Well, I won't be letting that media scum retake my brain anytime soon. Nicky Hayden is not just a cool guy who can ride fast, he's a world champion. Valentino Rossi is not immortal, he makes mistakes like the rest of us. This is just speculation, because with factors like Nakano on a Honda, Pedrosa no longer being a rookie, Melandri with his own tyre factory and Ducatis going faster and faster, It's not going to be a Rossi-Hayden show. But I belive in Hayden now. Sure, this might be just my personal feeling, but I think Hayden is in with a shot. He's a lot smarter, faster, more mature and tougher than the evil Rossibopper media machine gives him credit for. There is, of course a big chance that Rossi, or someone else will win, and give Hayden a proper ...-whooping. But, in my honset opinion, counting out a <strike>racer</strike> World Champion like Nicky Hayden before the season even starts could be a very big mistake.

Oh yeah and http://www.motogpforum.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif The Rossi loving press. This is one dull brain that you ain't getting back.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alex @ Nov 5 2006, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Seeing as you have 4 favourite riders and judging by this post I can read the type of person you are...and you really have to put everyone's perspective into view and not be biased to one or more riders. You're saying Hayden won't win next year but if that's so then why is he the new world champion and not Rossi, Capirossi or Pedrosa?
I admit, Rossi is going to be a stronger favourite than anyone else but next season COULD be even worse than the 06 season for him, you never know. Pedrosa isn't the only star of the future, you're going to have to watch out for Casey Stoner now that he's got the Ducati ride for next year. Watch out for Vermeulen too, and of course Pedrosa.
Marco Melandri is going to be hitting in with the big names next year also, whereas Gibernau's career may be near the end, looks like he's done a Jacques Villeneuve of F1 and is slowly going downhill.

I admit I'm prejudiced. Who isn't?
well....I'm just one of motogp fans...
If you want me to be 100 % objective, I can only say "every rider gets a chance to win."
As some factors to win the race involve: skills, good bike, most important of all: good luck!

+ 100 Richo!

Great post!

Did anybody watch the season review yesturday? I was suprised by some of the issues Hayden had with his bike. Apparently he had the 14th fastest bike bike at Mugello but still managed to come third. And Honda were testing parts all season long, hence his performances at Brno, Malaysia, Donington, Motegi. Hayden testing parts and still wining the world championship is an amazing feet, espicially when he was not on the best bike (Sorry Yamaha fans).

IMO Hayden can retain the title!

I think he's capable.

But, as long as races are exciting, and, like my boyfriend sed "not healthy to watch" I don'c care who is the champion.