Why has HONDA not dominated pre-season tests.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Jan 25 2007, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thats a very weak excuse dont you think? Honda's legendary research and development department is bigger that all of Ducati, Yamaha, Kawasaki, and Suzuki combined. I think instead of thinking Honda Dropped the ball maybe there is a chance that the other factories have gotten better and quicker.

Switching configurations from V5 to V4 calls for different power management, exhaust output, etc.. right now I don't know the exact details of the RC212V so, we can't really say why they are having troubles... furthermore, even if you have the world's best resource, it still comes down to trial and error.. after all mgp is a platform for testing prototypes against others who have the balls to compete.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Jan 26 2007, 10:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To assume the slowed development of the RC212V in comparison to the RC211V and NSR500 because of rider development (or lackthereof, as you claim) is ridiculous. It's not as if Rossi or Doohan were in Japan every week between races testing the new bike. Someone besides those two was doing the same thing Tady Okada and Tohru Ukawa do now, test new stuff daily.

It would be foolish to assume that Hayden or Pedrosa and their crews have the same development genius that Rossi and Burgess have. But at the same time, they aren't the kids wearing hockey helmets riding the short bus either. This is a team consisting of two world champions, I certainly have no question regarding their abilities. Maybe that's because I'm a Hayden fan. But I also won't dismiss the fact that this thread was started simply because Rossi disciples never pass up a chance to take a shot at a threat either.

Discuss

i agree.. however, rumors have it that Carlos Checa is getting a fairing set that will fit him better.. big guy / small bike..unlike how the bike is fitted for small guy / small bike

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Jan 26 2007, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi disciples never pass up a chance to take a shot at a threat either.

Discuss
well of course ooost, thats what true fans do,they look up to there boy through thick and thin, and not just rossi fans,hayden fans do a pretty good job to

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Jan 25 2007, 11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You don't wanna be predicting the demise of Honda, trust me. You end up with a face full of crow pie. It's nice to dream, though, isn't it?
Richo, read my post alittle more carefully. When I said the end is near, I didn't mean Honda's end, I was just trying to explain how the other factories are managing to get closer to Honda's ability to develop a bike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jan 26 2007, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Me? easily impressed? Nah, its takes more than 3 race wins to impress me....

Pete
cracker pete, you d man

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Jan 26 2007, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Oostin i think they post this stuff to blow smoke up jumkies shorts.
i dont believe that for 1 second

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Jan 26 2007, 08:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stop being a prick Junker...cause if we can jack each other on-line i'd shoot a load across your living-room.

anyhow...you are way off and wrong... Honda has all the money, all the best engineers, and are the BEST at what they do...BUT!..all that means poo if the RIDER is not there to develop the bike..... to take said machine out and push it to its limit and find its weakness....with out the RIDER to impute his info on where the bike development has to go all you have is a computer to crunch numbers.....that computer (computer being the engineers also) WILL and CAN build the bike...but can't make it faster...

Maybe engineers and their technology can develop the bike to be faster, but it is not only about power, needs control, handling, endurance and like a million variables (Riders input) to make it great for most tracks and then on to roads and streets.

The thing I do not get, what is it about “exchanging bikes”, Checa and Roberts “exchanging bikes to develop the engine”. Never heard of that even in the same team, each rider has his bikes that I know of. It is not clear to me; this means that all 7 Honda riders are going to be “exchanging bikes”? Then what is the point of different teams, so maybe to Honda sponsors do not matter. I mean Telefonica quit F1 one just because Alonzo left Renault. So if a Sponsor backs up a Rider instead of a Manufacturer, for example Checa, and now he is riding a different sponsor’s bike (even practices are watch by fans). It is not clear to me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Jan 26 2007, 06:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe engineers and their technology can develop the bike to be faster, but it is not only about power, needs control, handling, endurance and like a million variables (Riders input) to make it great for most tracks and then on to roads and streets.
yup i agree with that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Jan 26 2007, 06:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The thing I do not get, what is it about “exchanging bikes”, Checa and Roberts “exchanging bikes to develop the engine”. Never heard of that even in the same team, each rider has his bikes that I know of. It is not clear to me; this means that all 7 Honda riders are going to be “exchanging bikes”? Then what is the point of different teams, so maybe to Honda sponsors do not matter. I mean Telefonica quit F1 one just because Alonzo left Renault. So if a Sponsor backs up a Rider instead of a Manufacturer, for example Checa, and now he is riding a different sponsor’s bike (even practices are watch by fans). It is not clear to me.

i dont no anything about this at all..please inlighten me

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 26 2007, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i dont no anything about this at all..please inlighten me

There you go mate!

http://www.crash.net/news_View~t~Roberts-b...6~id~142438.htm

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 25 2007, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>im with you al
its because arseimo and the crusin cartaker couldnt develope a cold let alone a gp bike,and even if they could have they got strong enough personalitys to TELL the allmighty honda what to do.......me thinks not.

I disagree with you about Pedorsa and Hayden not being able to develop a bike. I think they can and have. As Oooost said, after all they ARE both champions. But to a small degree, I see your point about their personalities being perhaps an issue in communicating with Honda about bike issues. I think you may be mistaking Hayden's humble character as a push over. And it is a fair point to bring up as you did. I was disappointed with his treatment by Honda, and I think he gave them another year of his services because he wanted to show his loyalty and perhaps also realizing that this last year was a great opportunity to win a championship. Perhaps he sensed that they would bump him even further as second class citizen in the two-man team. So in a way, I can see why you might think he caved in. I felt the same way myself a few times (but in a different perspective than you). Don't get your panties all wet, I'm not actually agreeing with you, but I do see your point.

However, both these men (in relation to their development and communication abilities regarding Honda) will hold their own. Well remember, Pedrosa has a very powerful bed buddy on his side. If Pedrosa has any personality deficiencies they will more than be made up by Ali Puig. Enough said. As far as Hayden, well I would remind you that he has demanded respect even in public from icons of the sport (Rossi & Melandri) on a certain occasion (during a press conference). To do this requires self-assurance and assertiveness. Also, I know you are not a Hayden fan, but you are a fan of the “sport” as you have lead me to think; to be a World Champion is not an easy feat. I propose to be a World Title holder shows inherently that the champions have these mental qualities. So I’m not gonna run to question these guy’s assertiveness but I would question Honda’s ability to make prudent decisions and adjustments when their riders do give them their thoughts about the machinery.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Jan 26 2007, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There you go mate!

http://www.crash.net/news_View~t~Roberts-b...6~id~142438.htm


cheers mate,..how bizarre. you would think if they were going to let riders from other teams have a go on there bike it would have been the 990 not the new 800.
hate to bang on but mabe honda are trying to prove a point,that its the bike not the rider buy letting other riders have a go and comparing lap times. or have i missed the point ?
had a few beers so may be a little confused

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Jan 26 2007, 06:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stop being a prick Junker...cause if we can jack each other on-line i'd shoot a load across your living-room.
.


I think this would require you having a protruding appendage (this means .....), sorry, I don’t think you qualify.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 26 2007, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>cheers mate,..how bizarre. you would think if they were going to let riders from other teams have a go on there bike it would have been the 990 not the new 800.
hate to bang on but mabe honda are trying to prove a point,that its the bike not the rider buy letting other riders have a go and comparing lap times. or have i missed the point ?
had a few beers so may be a little confused
I don't think it's Honda that are pushing this. I think it's the fact that you have two small teams in LCR and Team KR with very limited resources using identical powerplants with riders and teams that have been around for a while. I think it's just a case of "Okay, we have a bike that is very strong in areas A, B and C and rather weak in areas X, Y and Z. Let's see how their bike behaves and perhaps we can use some of that data to fix areas X, Y and Z and possibily improve areas A, B and C even further."

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Jan 26 2007, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think it's Honda that are pushing this. I think it's the fact that you have two small teams in LCR and Team KR with very limited resources using identical powerplants with riders and teams that have been around for a while. I think it's just a case of "Okay, we have a bike that is very strong in areas A, B and C and rather weak in areas X, Y and Z. Let's see how their bike behaves and perhaps we can use some of that data to fix areas X, Y and Z and possibily improve areas A, B and C even further."
yeah make sence

Welcome to second grade ladies and gentlemen.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Jan 26 2007, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think it's Honda that are pushing this. I think it's the fact that you have two small teams in LCR and Team KR with very limited resources using identical powerplants with riders and teams that have been around for a while. I think it's just a case of "Okay, we have a bike that is very strong in areas A, B and C and rather weak in areas X, Y and Z. Let's see how their bike behaves and perhaps we can use some of that data to fix areas X, Y and Z and possibily improve areas A, B and C even further."

OK, it makes sense on the development’s point of view (Honda’s Interests)… But I still don’t get it, it makes no sense on the Sponsor’s point of view (Business Interests)…

Some fans like Roberts and other like Checa, Sponsor know this and follow a Rider’s career a lot of times, if it was me “Sponsoring” (who knows) Barros (to say someone) and Ducati cause my interests are set in Latin America, and all of a sudden Ducati decides that the bike will be ridden by Capirossi in which I have no interests for the moment… I kind of not get it ¡?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Jan 26 2007, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>all of a sudden Ducati decides that the bike will be ridden by Capirossi in which I have no interests for the moment… I kind of not get it ¡?

"I kind of not get" what you are saying...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jan 26 2007, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"I kind of not get" what you are saying...

For once Jumkie, you talk sense...get it niether do I..


Yoda

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Jan 26 2007, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>OK, it makes sense on the development’s point of view (Honda’s Interests)… But I still don’t get it, it makes no sense on the Sponsor’s point of view (Business Interests)…

Some fans like Roberts and other like Checa, Sponsor know this and follow a Rider’s career a lot of times, if it was me “Sponsoring” (who knows) Barros (to say someone) and Ducati cause my interests are set in Latin America, and all of a sudden Ducati decides that the bike will be ridden by Capirossi in which I have no interests for the moment… I kind of not get it ¡?

Keep in mind it's not as if this is a permanent or any term longer than one stint. It's not as if Roberts will now ride for LCR and Checa for KR. It's only testing to get additional feedback and data, I don't think the sponsors will mind. After all, it's all in preparation to get them as close to the top of the box with the big sponsors plastered all over themselves.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Jan 27 2007, 01:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Keep in mind it's not as if this is a permanent or any term longer than one stint. It's not as if Roberts will now ride for LCR and Checa for KR. It's only testing to get additional feedback and data, I don't think the sponsors will mind. After all, it's all in preparation to get them as close to the top of the box with the big sponsors plastered all over themselves.

But then again, if Roberts, with this test can further develop his bike faster, he would be in a position (Was 2000 World Champion) to maybe challenge Respol for some wins or so. Ok, that is bike’s development, but what would Konica Minolta think? Why would Konica Minolta invest on a Honda Satellite Team? Aren’t they looking maybe for a Japanese Champion first on Tamada and now on Nakano? Or, is it going to be Tamada and Pedrosa now “exchanging bikes”?


PD. I do understand bike development. But not Sponsor’s (Business) interests.