Joined Jun 2008
1K Posts | 365+
USA
VR Effect: Negative Repercussion for GP
- Thread starter Jumkie
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Been watching for 22 years actually, have no idea where you got 7 from.
This of course is your opinion, and nothing but speculation forever. The only way to compare is having them on the same team at about teh same stages of their careers, which will never happen. The results though say otherwise.
It's 10 years by the way. Maybe he needs special Rossi tires and rocket fuel to win one.
How very convenient of you to once again choose his 2 worst years in motorcycle racing to imply he somehow isn't deserving of GOAT status despite wiping the floor clean of virtually all grand prix records in his other years. I don't recall teammate Nicky coming to grips with that Ducati, yourself and every other Brit, Yank, Aussie have him as some sort of highly regarded riding God. For me, that is telling, had Nicky mopped the floor with VR on the same bike then your comment is valid. Problem is it wasn't the case. Whether it's the bike or the rider is nothing but your opinion (certainly not impartial cause you can't stand Rossi) and speculation. Keep digging buddy, results count more than hearsay, speculation and opinions.
Really? The 2010 Ducati was well into an accelerating decline and 2011/12 saw other manufacturer step it up. Your point is invalid since his teammate did even worse on the same machinery and no rider has won on a Ducati since 2010. I also wouldn't call Dovi, Crutchlow, Iannone, or Pirro inferior riders. I repeat, you can't selectively choose 1 year and wipe out the rest. Your Senna analogy is also invalid, the FW16 may have been a handful and without the banned elctronics but was still one of the most powerful cars on the grid the active FW15 winning the championship by huge margin.
Joined Jun 2008
1K Posts | 365+
USA
You are as dumb as they come! What does any of this has to do with Nicky? But since you want to throw Nicky into this, lets use your logic to prove a point. If Nicky was rossi team mate in 2015 at yamaha, both would be battling for the title. Stoner is the only rider to deliver more wins, podiums & title for Ducati period!!!! Not not Nicky & definitely not the almighty flossi you and the rest of dingle berries worship.
If this, if that...if if if. If you had wheels you'd be a pushcart. The Hayden/Stoner ball suckers on this site only cling to Ducati to try and prove that Rossi is an inferior rider, 100 plus wins and 9 titles be damned. In actually fact you should be thankful for those 2 years cause had he continued winning the anger and hate would be through the roof here. GTFO
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Papabozzo, you been watching two decades and haven't learn .... about what makes or breaks careers. Rossi had been artificially propped up. Did you know Yamaha pursued Stoner in 2007 but ..... ... Rossi vetoed it. This is one small example of how this farce has kept up his doctored record. Just like his return to Yamaha, brokered by the chief league executive (probably from VRs motorhome). ..... ... Rossi vetoed having a talent like Stoner as a teammate because he knew along side him Rossi would have never again sniffed a title. Stoner was on 2nd tier tires, Casey blew the whistle on it, so ..... ... Rossi knew a Stoner on tires factory Yamaha and him would have demanded (unlike perpetual lap dog Edwards) would have spelled the end of the doctored results. You continually show how superficial you know the sport, if you've been watching something for over 20 years, I'd be embarrassed to admit how little to nothing you know about it. I'm sure you think it's like a foot race. Everybody with the same opportunity to win. Hence your laughable exclamation that Rossi went from last to 4th.
Masao Furusawa said Yamaha racing didn't want Rossi back. Why? Because he is a nightmare to work with considering he is a diva. He said the decision to sign Rossi back up was not done by anyone associated with the racing personal. It was done between the marketing department and Dorna. Hahaha, that should give you pause you clown. Rossi makes it hell because inevitably he turns on teammates, then all the work gets doubled. Like when he demanded a wall in the garage. Great for the psyche and entertainment value of straight jacket boppers like you, but for the engineers it a soap opera that makes their job hell. Rossi works the politics to ratchet up his artificial record to the detriment of others. Get yourself educated bozzo.
Masao Furusawa said Yamaha racing didn't want Rossi back. Why? Because he is a nightmare to work with considering he is a diva. He said the decision to sign Rossi back up was not done by anyone associated with the racing personal. It was done between the marketing department and Dorna. Hahaha, that should give you pause you clown. Rossi makes it hell because inevitably he turns on teammates, then all the work gets doubled. Like when he demanded a wall in the garage. Great for the psyche and entertainment value of straight jacket boppers like you, but for the engineers it a soap opera that makes their job hell. Rossi works the politics to ratchet up his artificial record to the detriment of others. Get yourself educated bozzo.
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You are hysterical again? I can recommend a good psychiatrist experience with schizoids,APD, internet addiction and other mental illness. Only problem she's in Quebec, but worth it.
I'm a fan of the sport first and foremost before any rider, engineer, or manufacturer. If there is tension between teammates I welcome it. If there is rivalry between riders, I welcome it. Makes everything more interesting.
Since you don't sound too bright I will inform you that history only judges by results. No one will know or care about your moronic theories of but this but that but but.... Just like people have already forgotten how Michael Schumacher had the best car with no competition and chose his teammates and those teammates were not allowed to beat him. They have also forgotten how he won the title in '94. People only remember his results, win after win after win....title after title after title. Sound familiar? It should.
Joined Aug 2009
1K Posts | 328+
Vancouver
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Dr. Medes perhaps? No you need that shrink. Obviously she is way to busy with you. Stop trying to divert her time, she needs to keep you safe from yourself.
You are a fan of Rossi. That is it. Your words don't fool anyone except perhaps your imaginary friend. No one remembers? You are reading posts from people who remember supposedly long forgotten facts. One small nuanced action like a veto, .... canning Stoner as a teammate isn't something understood by people like you, but you have decided to voice your ignorance in a place where members decidedly remember, not only remember, but understand the repercussions of such an incident. Its the same when informed members cite Toni Elias' win at Estoril, an incident seemingly a fluke. But with massive implications. Yes, the masses never quite understood it, and as you say perhaps long forgotten, but you're in a place here surrounded by people who remember it and comprehend it's impact in the scope of analyzing the record books. That is unfortunately bad for you but quite entertaining for me.
While you're being reluctantly educated, here is another genius mind game quip by Rossi, words I'm sure have been long forgotten. He said "Young MotoGP riders are ........" This in reaction to Lorenzo, Stoner, and Pedrosa at the time pointing out that Marco Simoncelli's riding was dangerous. I love that quote and plan to have it in my back pocket considering Rossi bitched out of racing a "young MotoGP rider" at Sepang this year! I bet you don't remember Lorenzo's retort to Rossi. I'll remind you: "it must be a shame to be beaten by little kids every race." Allow me to quote you Papabozzo, "LOL".
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So what else can you use to compare Stoner and Rossi? For 6 of the 7 years of Stoner's premier class career either Stoner or Rossi was on a Ducati. 4 years in Stoner's case, only 2 in Rossi's case; advantage Rossi I would have thought.
Interesting read while having my breakfast - yellow colored mash potato and some wheat Purvis..
Go ValeYellow
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
If AI and AD put the Duc on the podium this year, Stoner would have won races on it.
Wheat Puris are made of wheat dough, flattened and then fried. Well if you have that kind of breakfast everyday then man you have some appetite. From me that was part of my three course breakfast which started with a protein shake, then the pic and then couple of boiler eggs with some cold coffee with cinnamon..yummmm
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
So wait, let me get this straight. You say I cannot use the Senna analogy because the ill handling 1994 Williams FW16 had lots of power (ill handling with lots of power, sounds like a Ducati to me!) and was based on the race winning FW15 from 1993, yes?
Well, was the 2011 Ducati not based on the powerful bike on the grid and BASED ON THE RACE WINNING GP10? In the last 6 races of the 2010 season Ducati won as many races as the Yamaha...
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Talps, as I've explained to you innumerable times, far from disliking Rossi, it's the obsessional near fanatical fan base and associated hype that I 'can't stand'. Regarding both 'bike and rider' I am impartial and have no affiliation or emotional investment, although I'd love to see Cal, Brad or Scott do well. And no, they're not as talented as Valentino Rossi, but as results stand, if they benefitted from the level of preferential treatment that Rossi has received throughout his career I'm highly confident that they would improve.
And regarding results, you seem insistent that a rider should be judged solely upon them irrespective of the circumstances and the package availed to they and their teams. Thereby the season of Loris Baz should unquestionably be compared to the season of Valentino Rossi purely on his race finishes and his championship standing - because ultimately, that is how we measure and equate the 'greatness' and superiority of one rider over another? Perhaps if you are that myopic.
Given your argument, then yes, the two years at Ducati suddenly become hugely significant...because overnight Valentino Rossi's results were ...... Much like his predecessors, Nicky Hayden had practically no feedback whatsoever in the direction of that motorcycle. The endemic philosophy at Ducati even prompted Valentino upon his arrival to suggest that it was worse than HRC in terms of the stubborn belief in the primacy of engineering over the rider which was one of the contributory factors behind his defection to Yamaha. However, it wasn't long until the Valentino effect came into full force - and although Ducati had long since abandoned the trellis frame, they compromised their entire race DNA ditching the CF chassis for the aluminium twin spar largely at Rossi's behest. Quite different to banishing Marco Melandri to a Sports psychologist.
Records will always continue to tumble as a sport evolves and unlike the hordes of biased Rossi devotees I am always reluctant to compare sportsmen and athletes from different eras. If we base this purely on results as you suggest, then I'm afraid that Rossi is not the 'GOAT' Ago is, but I wouldn't subscribe to that either. If we equate it in terms of a long illustrious and competitive reign at the pinnacle of the sport, then yes without doubt Valentino Rossi is unchallenged; but this is intrinsically political and that very hegemony, that dominance owes as much to the marketing man, those that buy into it and the sustained, exponential and perpetuated disproportionate allocation of resources as it does talent.
EDIT: I would also add that in terms of that 'illustrious career', while Micheal Laverty was hysterically blithering on twitter about unwritten rules his brother simply posted this well known and highly poignant quote by Warren Buffett:
"It takes twenty years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it". Indeed.
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Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Hmmm, considering Ducati as a handicap for any rider at any time is maybe too much. From a competitive point of view, the only thing that matters is whether a rider can fully exploit the potential of a given bike or not, and if that potential can allow wins. Stoner could exploit the Ducati fully, -- demonstration is he was winning on it -- so he wasn't especially handicapped in his Ducati years (especially in 2007 and 2008).
He may have been limited by Ducati's development (and other) problems in 2009 an 2010, and in fact when he went to Honda in 2011 he immediately won the title again -- but interestingly, even on the Honda, in 2011 and 2012 he did not win more races or titles than on the Ducati in 2007 and 2008. So it seems at least in those two years the Ducati wasn't a limiting factor for him.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Agree. But then the same could be said of any of the 4 top riders in activity. This Ducati is not an especially difficult or peculiar bike any more -- it needs to be developed of course, and in that sense having Stoner as test rider should speed things up significantly. And, I keep hoping that Stoner will wild card at P.I. on the Ducati...
You don't recall them canning the 2008 engine and reverting to the 2007 engine after an engine failure DNF early in 2008?
I don't believe anyone could have ridden the 2007 Yamaha better than Rossi did to win the 2007 championship against Stoner/Ducati. Rossi however at no time showed the ability to ride the 800 Ducati as Stoner did (almost crashing on every corner which was impossible to replicate as some bloke called Jerry Burgess said, but what would he know?), which would appear to have been the only way to win, on that particular series of Ducatis at least. Marquez, or someone else (? John Hopkins perhaps I have always wondered) may have been able to do so, but not Rossi imo, which of course may not have anything to do with his ability to ride any other bike, including the 2006 990 Ducati on which I suspect he would have done rather well.
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Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Rossi never rode the 2007 and 2008 Ducatis, and the bike he rode in 2011 was an evolution (or involution) of the 2009-2010 bike (carbon fiber chassis and big bang engine), that eventually was scrapped completely.
However my point wasn't about Rossi (or anybody else) being able to replicate Stoner's fantastic rides on the Ducati -- it was about considering Stoner handicapped because he had to ride a Ducati.
In 2007 and 2008 his performance on the Ducati (numer of wins and 1 title) was quite comparable to his 2011 and 2012 seasons on the Honda; so it seems riding a Ducati did not penalize him in 2007 and 2008, any more than riding a Honda in 2011 and 2012 did.
